The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[Xann]

People that voted or sleepwalked the country down the shitter into a hole so deep it'll take generations to recover, are looking to deflect blame.

Btw, there's still more falling to come. Really big problems. AI, climate issues and yet more Tory legacy shit.

This has only just kicked in, for example.

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

How do you know it is? You don’t know who these people are. You don’t know what they’re planning . You don’t know what they’re doing. The government doesn’t know what they’re doing. The government does not even know who they are but if I was wanting to get into this country to do whatever, I’ll tell you how I would. Join the dots.

just because somebody doesn’t have your point of view does not mean it’s crap either. No need to be rude, you could just say “I don’t think you’re right” Not hard to do 

I don’t know who the people who live upstairs from me are. I don’t lose sleep over it. I don’t know 99.99%  of the population I'm certainly not worried about 0.03% because they risked their lives numerous times to get here and they get demonised by the likes of Farage and the Tories.

I wasn’t being rude, I called your opinion crap because it is. It’s the sort of bollocks that RW talking heads come out with all the time, it’s the shite that that fuels riots, it’s pretty much thinly veiled racism and panders to the irrational fear of others. It’s crap because it stands up to no scrutiny., it’s not based on anything that has happened, just based on fear.It’s an accurate description of that opinion. 

[chrisp65]

You should see some of the shit that comes in to this country via U.S. social media or the VIP lounge at Heathrow.

0.03% of the people around me are here without permission. Not one of them lied about tower block cladding or closed down the south wales steel industry or spunked hundreds of millions on a fake transport system or fake ppe bought off their wives and secretaries.

Imagine the reservists we could have lined along the cliffs of Dover in converted butchers wagons if one tory hadn’t pocketed hundreds of millions of pounds awarded to them by another tory.

We do need to control the borders. It is not what’s crashing our economy and living standards. 

[Follyfoot]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

I don’t know who the people who live upstairs from me are. I don’t lose sleep over it. I don’t know 99.99%  of the population I'm certainly not worried about 0.03% because they risked their lives numerous times to get here and they get demonised by the likes of Farage and the Tories.

I wasn’t being rude, I called your opinion crap because it is. It’s the sort of bollocks that RW talking heads come out with all the time, it’s the shite that that fuels riots, it’s pretty much thinly veiled racism and panders to the irrational fear of others. It’s crap because it stands up to no scrutiny., it’s not based on anything that has happened, just based on fear.It’s an accurate description of that opinion. 

 

in all fairness you’ve been on the back foot since you were proved wrong quoting the amount of people seeking asylum coming on the boat as miniscule. I will add you dodged responding to that.
 

You may not know who lives above you or next door to you, but you can bet your bottom dollar the vast majority are on the voters roll, claiming benefits or working and not invisible who have entered the country illegally and decided the moment they got here to fade into the background. It is the type of opinion the security services must absolutely dread.

It’s hilarious that you label such opinions as right wing when they are common sense

[bickster]

8 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

 

in all fairness you’ve been on the back foot since you were proved wrong quoting the amount of people seeking asylum coming on the boat as miniscule. I will add you dodged responding to that.
 

Make your mind up was I on the back foot or not answering? I mean it’s one or the other. I could have responded but there didn’t seem like much point in doing so as the post with the figures didn’t really contradict anything I said. (Suggest you compare and contrast what I and the other poster said). They challenged the word minuscule. I stand by my use of the word. Three hundredths of one percent, is minuscule. But for clarity without going back I said that 60% of people arriving by “small boat” were awarded asylum at the first attempt, the other poster said that 30% of asylum seekers arrived that way. Oranges and apples.

Edited September 7 by bickster

[bickster]

10 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

You may not know who lives above you or next door to you, but you can bet your bottom dollar the vast majority are on the voters roll, claiming benefits or working and not invisible who have entered the country illegally and decided the moment they got here to fade into the background. It is the type of opinion the security services must absolutely dread.

It’s hilarious that you label such opinions as right wing when they are common sense

It’s hilarious that you think RW talking points are common sense

[Xela]

3 minutes ago, bickster said:

It’s hilarious that you think RW talking points are common sense

It's not RW to be concerned about mass immigration and who is coming in to the country. 

[bickster]

4 minutes ago, Xela said:

It's not RW to be concerned about mass immigration and who is coming in to the country. 

That’s not the objectionable bit.

[Follyfoot]

17 minutes ago, bickster said:

Make your mind up was I on the back foot or not answering? I mean it’s one or the other. I could have responded but there didn’t seem like much point in doing so as the post with the figures didn’t really contradict anything I said. (Suggest you compare and contrast what I and the other poster said). They challenged the word minuscule. I stand by my use of the word. Three hundredths of one percent, is minuscule. But for clarity without going back I said that 60% of people arriving by “small boat” were awarded asylum at the first attempt, the other poster said that 30% of asylum seekers arrived that way. Oranges and apples.

 

14 minutes ago, bickster said:

It’s hilarious that you think RW talking points are common sense

So to summarise,
 

30% of all asylum seekers who arrive by boat are an minuscule number

It’s okay for thousands of these people whom are “seeking asylum”to instantly disappear into the ether and the majority of these people are males age between 19 and 49 

We should not be bothered by this because you do not know who your neighbours are and what they do so the same criteria applies to these people

Anyone who challenges this is promoting right wing ideology

Edited September 7 by Follyfoot

[blandy]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

But we are not talking about migrants, we are talking about illegal immigrants that come over on small boats. Something which is much more difficult to control than genuine migration.

I’m not sure about that. In terms of Asylum seekers, the only legal routes to arrive in the uk are from Ukraine or Hong Kong where you apply from your home nation (maybe I’ve forgotten one other nation). There are no other formal routes. Therefore if you’re from anywhere else you have to turn up and then claim asylum. The last government made it illegal to cross the channel by boat. It changed nothing. There’s no legal way to get here. International law requires asylum seekers and or refugees (same thing) to be granted asylum if they’re genuine.

So these people crossing the channel are a mix of mostly genuine refugees and a smaller number of crims, ne’erdowells and economic hopefuls. The minority therefore are “illegal immigrants”. The majority are valid asylum seekers with a genuine case.

That’s what we’re talking about. We need to filter them much more quickly, hoy out the not rights and help the ones in danger. The best way to do that is to (for the boats) work with France much better, set up something in France to deal with them there and then let the genuine ones come and block the not rights before anyone gets people smuggled in a crappy dingy.

[sheepyvillian]

On 04/09/2024 at 15:04, PaulC said:

Yes bit ironic that Sunak asking why  Starmer is  giving train drivers a 10k pay rise while poor pensioners are having their winter fuel payments stopped.

It beggars belief, the party known supposedly as the "Caring Party" resort to punishing pensioners. Starmer has that same smarmy look as Blair. Wolves in sheep's clothing. 

[blandy]

12 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

So to summarise,

30% of all asylum seekers who arrive by boat are an minuscule number

It’s okay for thousands of these people whom are “seeking asylum”to instantly disappear into the ether and the majority of these people are males age between 19 and 49 

We should not be bothered by this because you do not know who your neighbours are and what they do so the same criteria applies to these people

Anyone who challenges this is promoting right wing ideology

It’s a minuscule number compared to legal migration approx 10,000 compared to 700,000.

They don’t instantly disappear. They disappear after being stuck in crappy accomo for months on end (a few might leg it instantly, but mostly not). The ones who vanish include children and women, sometimes into slavery or sexual exploitation- they’re not all crims and terrorists. But yes, we should be concerned about it and it’s not right wing or left wing to point out the system is broken or be worried about it.

[bickster]

Just now, sheepyvillian said:

It beggars belief, the party known supposedly as the "Caring Party" resort to punishing pensioners. Starmer has that same smarmy look as Blair. Wolves in sheep's clothing. 

Winter fuel payments should always have been means tested. It makes no sense for them not to be, unless of course you're bribing the only proportion of the electorate that actually votes for you.

[chrisp65]

If people get a decent wage, wouldn’t that reduce the number of poor pensioners we constantly need to be propping up with extra payments?
We have a very poor system where we try and pay the minimum, extract the maximum profit, minimise the tax, subsidise the poorest, prop up the poverty wages of those employed by international billionaires.

It’s almost like we could be missing the bigger picture.

[Follyfoot]

8 minutes ago, blandy said:

It’s a minuscule number compared to legal migration approx 10,000 compared to 700,000.

They don’t instantly disappear. They disappear after being stuck in crappy accomo for months on end (a few might leg it instantly, but mostly not). The ones who vanish include children and women, sometimes into slavery or sexual exploitation- they’re not all crims and terrorists. But yes, we should be concerned about it and it’s not right wing or left wing to point out the system is broken or be worried about it.

Why do we not have any reports or statistics to back up this. we are told that thousands of  missing people have deregistered or have been stuck off lists for asylum but they do not allegedly know the percentage of these that are male female or child. Surely if they were recorded at some point, these percentages and figures would be easy to calculate.

Edited September 7 by Follyfoot

[blandy]

3 minutes ago, bickster said:

Winter fuel payments should always have been means tested. It makes no sense for them not to be, unless of course you're bribing the only proportion of the electorate that actually votes for you.

Gordon Brown started the universal payments in different times. Not sure it was a bribe. 
As of now, the universal nature of it is probably out of date, but the cut off point is probably too low and to be honest I’m not sure only giving it to poor pensioners is right, either. Other low income people should maybe also get it

[blandy]

2 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Why do we not have any reports or statistics to back up this. we are told that the 17,000 missing people have deregistered or have been stuck off lists for asylum but they do not allegedly know the percentage of these that are male female or child. Surely if they were recorded at some point, these percentages and figures would be easy to calculate.

If we don’t have the figures why did you say

Quote

the majority of these people are males age between 19 and 49 

But to answer your question, the home office has the data. Unsurprisingly perhaps they have been reluctant to advertise it

[chrisp65]

I’d imagine that if the tories had invested in a prison service and probation service and immigration processing and border control and all that we would have a much better idea of how many were here, under what rules, and where they were.

But the system was vandalised to have a never ending bogeyman we can declare war on. There’s profit in fear and the bogus solutions to that fear.

There will be murders by people that shouldn’t be here. There will be far more murders by people born here that the system was underfunded in to also losing track of. The wife beaters and the drug pushers and all the other scum that get away with their lifestyle because the system is spending its money on other stuff like keeping pensioners warm, or topping up wages, or giving Tata a few million quid to close operations down more slowly.

We are being conned in to watching the wrong bad guys. 

[foreveryoung]

40 minutes ago, bickster said:

That’s not the objectionable bit.

I'm unsure why you are now agreeing with @blandy, most of his comments are opposite to yours, like the immigrants coming over by small boat are not illegals. Your losing the battle here aren't you. 

[DCJonah]

28 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

It beggars belief, the party known supposedly as the "Caring Party" resort to punishing pensioners. Starmer has that same smarmy look as Blair. Wolves in sheep's clothing. 

My aunty was annoyed that she lost it because she always used it to buy Christmas presents.