one_ian_taylor Posted July 30 VT Supporter Share Posted July 30 5 hours ago, Wainy316 said: Labour knew about the black hole because everyone kept yelling it at them during the campaign but they chose to ignore it as it moved the debate onto tax rises. Now they're in they'll freely talk about it, but it's quite clear they knew about it before. It's still the Tories fault but they can't pretend that this is new info. Isn't there an element of revenge to this as well as political strategy? 14 years ago, we were hearing all about the note Liam Byrne left in the Treasury for the incoming government, and that was used as a big stick to beat Labour for years (well, 14 of them, as I'm pretty sure the Tories raised it several times during the campaign). Make the shit stick early on, repeat it, and people will remember it for a long time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 30 VT Supporter Share Posted July 30 If only someone had thought about pressing the growth button before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 30 Author Share Posted July 30 (edited) 8 minutes ago, one_ian_taylor said: Isn't there an element of revenge to this as well as political strategy? 14 years ago, we were hearing all about the note Liam Byrne left in the Treasury for the incoming government, and that was used as a big stick to beat Labour for years (well, 14 of them, as I'm pretty sure the Tories raised it several times during the campaign). Make the shit stick early on, repeat it, and people will remember it for a long time. Yes you are right - but alot of posters on here said it was just a "joke" and acceptable they did that. Now shoes on other foot.. Btw have labour scrapped the new hospitals that thw tories pledged to build as part of the austerity measures? I really hope not as thats crucial ti our future Edited July 30 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 1 hour ago, Jonesy7211 said: No wonder Starmer was like a rabbit in the headlights whenever he was pressed on taxation during the leaders debates. If the OBR knew this was coming there was no chance Labour didn't. This is just the start of the next shit sandwich the country will be forced to eat. Low wages, high tax, and in the near future we can look forward to high inflation. The bs about growth plugging the gaps looks like the hopes of a school kid, rather than a realistic ambition of a sensible MP. There's nothing we (the people) can do about it either. Feck. Why would there be high inflation if wages are low and taxes are high? Both of those things push inflation down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 30 Author Share Posted July 30 1 minute ago, Panto_Villan said: Why would there be high inflation if wages are low and taxes are high? Both of those things push inflation down. Wages are going on the up though. Its starts with nhs & teachers - police and fire brigade surely will be asking for a rise soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 30 VT Supporter Share Posted July 30 (edited) 1 hour ago, LondonLax said: The UK has to actually produce more products or services that global society wants in order to sustain the lifestyle it is accustomed to. That requires, at the very least, reducing the red tape and other barriers to trade that have gone up since Brexit. I can tell you right now, in my profession, insurance, rather than a bonfire of red tape in the last 5 years it's got worse and worse with a never ending exercise of box ticking that helps and protects no one but takes time and resources away from everyone who is trying to do their job. I'm not sure how it's got worse, but it's ridiculous. I'm sure people in many areas would say the same. Edited July 30 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 30 VT Supporter Share Posted July 30 10 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Yes you are right - but alot of posters on here said it was just a "joke" and acceptable they did that. Now shoes on other foot.. Btw have labour scrapped the new hospitals that thw tories pledged to build as part of the austerity measures? I really hope not as thats crucial ti our future I would question if those hospitals were ever going to be built anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 30 VT Supporter Share Posted July 30 By my reckoning The Government still own about £7bn of Nat West. I can't understand why that hasn't been sold. A fee years ago they were going to sell of shares to the public, don't know why that was cancelled. Surely they should be selling them off now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 30 Moderator Share Posted July 30 14 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Yes you are right - but alot of posters on here said it was just a "joke" and acceptable they did that The joke was a parliamentary tradition when governments changed hands going back to the 60s, the Tories weaponised it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 8 minutes ago, bickster said: The joke was a parliamentary tradition when governments changed hands going back to the 60s, the Tories weaponised it. This has been explained multiple times and just gets ignored. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted July 30 VT Supporter Share Posted July 30 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Yes you are right - but alot of posters on here said it was just a "joke" and acceptable they did that. Now shoes on other foot.. Btw have labour scrapped the new hospitals that thw tories pledged to build as part of the austerity measures? I really hope not as thats crucial ti our future Well, as the hospitals weren't new or entire hospitals anyway, possibly not... (I know they will have been big rufurbs and extensions, but the reality isn't as big as the headline would suggest). Also, it was just a joke, and a tradition with outgoing governments that the Tories weaponised. However, as you say the boot is now very much on the other foot. Edited July 30 by one_ian_taylor 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Absolutely devastated that a couple of corridors in my local hospital aren't getting a lick of paint and some new seats in the waiting area alongside a ribbon-cutting event to open the new hospital 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted July 30 VT Supporter Share Posted July 30 21 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Absolutely devastated that a couple of corridors in my local hospital aren't getting a lick of paint and some new seats in the waiting area alongside a ribbon-cutting event to open the new hospital Bang goes your chance to meet Rishi Sunak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 9 hours ago, bickster said: The joke was a parliamentary tradition when governments changed hands going back to the 60s, the Tories weaponised it. Glad we agree then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 8 hours ago, Davkaus said: Absolutely devastated that a couple of corridors in my local hospital aren't getting a lick of paint and some new seats in the waiting area alongside a ribbon-cutting event to open the new hospital i bet you will complain you can't get a appointment at your local hospital. We need more hospitals and GPs thats a fact. But you also need to atrract the staff for them. 9 hours ago, one_ian_taylor said: Well, as the hospitals weren't new or entire hospitals anyway, possibly not... (I know they will have been big rufurbs and extensions, but the reality isn't as big as the headline would suggest). Also, it was just a joke, and a tradition with outgoing governments that the Tories weaponised. However, as you say the boot is now very much on the other foot. Problems with the nhs started happening when GPS and hospitals started closing. If you have less GPs ans more patients piling in at those particular GPs and hospitals then thats whats causing the issue with getting appointments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 31 Moderator Share Posted July 31 5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Glad we agree then We don’t agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 (edited) 7 minutes ago, bickster said: We don’t agree Ah so you think its acceptable that both governments act like children then ? MPs paid a fortune acting like kids when they leave. Making a mockery of us the working class because they both **** up the economy and it ends up with us having to pay more tax somewhere. Labour ahould say we knew the mess we were inheriting we have some tough decisions to make but we will get on with the job and tey turn things around. Saying you didnt know i just dont believe them at all. Edited July 31 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted July 31 VT Supporter Share Posted July 31 3 18 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: i bet you will complain you can't get a appointment at your local hospital. We need more hospitals and GPs thats a fact. But you also need to atrract the staff for them. Problems with the nhs started happening when GPS and hospitals started closing. If you have less GPs ans more patients piling in at those particular GPs and hospitals then thats whats causing the issue with getting appointments. As I understand, one of the biggest issues is lack of GPs/primary care, meaning that too many people go to hospital. However, I think increasing primary care is within Labour's plans. as is increasing public health provision, i.e. prevention rather than cure. Aside from their plan to cut waiting lists (which I don't know how well will work - from the pre-election debates etc, it seemed to me to rely too much on worker goodwill, though albeit fixing the pay situation will help on that front), aiming to increase public health and primary care provision seems like a sensible plan over the long term. As for your point about complaining about less access to hospitals, not nit building non existent new hospitals won't change that. But I am very lucky where I am both for GP and hospital provision, appreciate others aren't. But the cancelled spending plans also won't affect GP provision. I'm no expert on this, but I read MD in Private Eye who is. New issue out today, so will be interesting to see what his take on he new government is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 31 VT Supporter Share Posted July 31 What is absolutely clear is that National Insurance should never have been cut. You always knew it was an insane strategy designed to **** up next administration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 30 minutes ago, sidcow said: What is absolutely clear is that National Insurance should never have been cut. You always knew it was an insane strategy designed to **** up next administration. I think at the time people on here actually described it as salting the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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