The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[Marka Ragnos]

On 09/07/2024 at 06:39, Danwichmann said:

And worth noting that a lot of universities would go bust without those students. They are subsidising the UK students who's fees don't cover the universities costs. 

Yes. We need to guard against a race to the bottom mentality, too. Blaming foreign students or successful immigrants or using them to prove political points when there are failing home country educational opportunities or messed up home-country values are an old species of xenophobia, too. It's the dark flipside to "model minority" stereotypes, too, in which minority native communities are sometimes castigated for not "doing like" some foreign students or "hard-working" immigrants.

I think the big problems happen when we expect neglected native born or isolated minority communities to perform to a level of foreign students and cut off opportunities to them. There is no question this very thing happened in the UC system in California. It's really messed up. It's being slowly reversed. There, foreign students basically propped up great schools like UCLA, but local poor students -- mostly black and hispanic -- were systematically shut out due to anti-"positive discrimination" legislation (to use the British term for affirmative action). Not surprisingly, it created serious resentment, particularly anti-Asian resentment, from what I've observed. But getting way OT here.

Edited July 11 by Marka Ragnos

[Marka Ragnos]

On 08/07/2024 at 14:15, Davkaus said:

It sounds harsh, is potential illegal, and there's considerable pushback, but I suspect it may pay off in terms of social cohesion. We won't know for years, though.

Sounds completely ####ed up to me. Don't need years to figure that out.

[magnkarl]

2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Because the last 20 years have proved that people from Middle Eastern countries don't want to work?

I wasn't discussing migration with you. I was pointing out the racist statement where you'd said that people from Middle Eastern countries don't want to work.

It is, it's about the generalisation you're making about the values of those people - values which, in your opinion, include that they are lazy in comparison to European people.

I respect your desire for racism to be more widely accepted, though I don't agree with it.

Again, we’re back at the point where the statistics don’t matter because of offence. Denmark and Sweden are perfect examples, and Arabs aren’t mentioned anywhere in my post or their statistics, so you can row that projection right back, thank you.

I respect your point of view that the West constantly acts like a colonialist power (like you parroting Farage talking points on the West provoking Russia in Ukraine with CIA coups and the like) - but I don’t agree for one second.  The fact of the matter is that because no one seems willing to admit that our way of allowing rampant immigration from countries not similar in moral values to ours leads to parallel societies. It isn’t something I make up, there’s plenty of proof of both in Denmark and Sweden, and further in Wedding, Berlin, Saint Denis, Paris etc. 

Sweden, a country with 10 million people has the murder capital of Europe. Even the most left social democrat in Sweden can tell you why.

Edited July 11 by magnkarl

[Demitri_C]

This might shock a lot of you - but i liked Streetings comments about senior NHS management and dealing with whistle blowers. Hope he can deliver that and isn't just all talk as thats a big problem in my experience 

[Davkaus]

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

This might shock a lot of you - but i liked Streetings comments about senior NHS management and dealing with whistle blowers. Hope he can deliver that and isn't just all talk as thats a big problem in my experience 

He's the cabinet minister who concerns me the most, but yeah, he's making some positive noises. Arse-covering at the expense of patient safety has been prevalent for far too long, if he can break that culture, he'll have won me over.

[Demitri_C]

14 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

He's the cabinet minister who concerns me the most, but yeah, he's making some positive noises. Arse-covering at the expense of patient safety has been prevalent for far too long, if he can break that culture, he'll have won me over.

I can vouch for this. There is so many scandals from senior management but people are scared to whistle blow because nothing ever happens to these people as they have so much power, and get their arses covered by othee senior people in the organisation.

This is definitely a positive if he can deliver on it.

Edited July 11 by Demitri_C

[OutByEaster?]

22 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Again, we’re back at the point where the statistics don’t matter because of offence. Denmark and Sweden are perfect examples, and Arabs aren’t mentioned anywhere in my post or their statistics, so you can row that projection right back, thank you.

I respect your point of view that the West constantly acts like a colonialist power (like you parroting Farage talking points on the West provoking Russia in Ukraine with CIA coups and the like) - but I don’t agree for one second.  The fact of the matter is that because no one seems willing to admit that our way of allowing rampant immigration from countries not similar in moral values to ours leads to parallel societies. It isn’t something I make up, there’s plenty of proof of both in Denmark and Sweden, and further in Wedding, Berlin, Saint Denis, Paris etc. 

Sweden, a country with 10 million people has the murder capital of Europe. Even the most left social democrat in Sweden can tell you why.

You seem to be having a debate with yourself about immigration, I'll leave you to it.

[Davkaus]

7 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I can vouch for this. There is so many scandals from senior management but people are scared to whistle blow because nothing ever happens to these people as they have so much power, and get their arses covered by othee senior people in the organisation.

This is definitely a positive if he can deliver on it.

My personal highlight is getting in the room with the CEO of our local trust, making him cry when he heard about our experiences and saw the photos, and a heartfelt promise to open all the doors we needed, and keep progressing the ongoing investigation, only for him to immediately go back to ghosting us as soon as he wasn't in the same room. Bunch of absolute bastards. 

 

[Genie]

I can believe what you’re both saying when I saw that the people who reported Lucy Letby were not only not taken seriously, they were made to apologise to her by NHS seniors. 

Edited July 11 by Genie

[Demitri_C]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

My personal highlight is getting in the room with the CEO of our local trust, making him cry when he heard about our experiences and saw the photos, and a heartfelt promise to open all the doors we needed, and keep progressing the ongoing investigation, only for him to immediately go back to ghosting us as soon as he wasn't in the same room. Bunch of absolute bastards. 

 

Senior management in the nhs are the **** worst. Arrogant clearings in the woods that think they are above everyone  even looking down on clinicians (there are one or two decent ones but moat of these ops managers are arseholes)

The worst thing is when they do wrong most of the time they either get suspended then bought back as HR as so bad or protected from the policy as its so hard to sack in the nhs , or if they failing in a speciality instead of holding them to account they just move them to anothee speciality and they **** that up.

Im.not kidding we have one thats been moved to about 5 or 6 specialities and has **** them all up. Its outrageous.

Sadly unless he changes the policies i dont see how he can deliver it. Sounds good on paper but im not sure how realistic it is to be achieved. 

[Demitri_C]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

I can believe what you’re both saying when I saw that the people who reported Lucy Letby were not only ignored, they were made to apologise to her by NHS seniors. 

I was absolutely embarrassed to work for the nhs after that story genie. Even i was stunned at how pathetic this case was handled. This is a perfect scenario of senior management getting away with it and no repercussions for poor leadership 

[Anthony]

There's a tangential issue here, where in Britain management = bad, because anyone can do management, can't they? Piece of piss. You don't need training for that, you're just going on a jolly, when all you need is common sense. The reality is, in order to be a good manager you need training, and in the UK people don't want to be trained in management, because managers have such a poor image. I see so much piss poor management all over the place, public sector and private.

Good, skilled, trained management is the foundation of good business practise, in any sector, and in this country we have next to **** all.

[Davkaus]

20 minutes ago, Anthony said:

There's a tangential issue here, where in Britain management = bad, because anyone can do management, can't they? Piece of piss. You don't need training for that, you're just going on a jolly, when all you need is common sense. The reality is, in order to be a good manager you need training, and in the UK people don't want to be trained in management, because managers have such a poor image. I see so much piss poor management all over the place, public sector and private.

Good, skilled, trained management is the foundation of good business practise, in any sector, and in this country we have next to **** all.

In my experience, it comes down to 3 things, that are related, but separate.

1. You're good at X, you should manage people who do X

2. The Peter Principle - people get promoted based on their performance in their previous role, so we rise to our level of incompetence

3. Management often pays better and is seen as a more senior position when it shouldn't be

The point at which I find myself having conversations in which my boss thinks I ought to be moved into a management position is now the point at which I start looking for a new job. I'm a great individual contributor in my role, a great contributor to the team, I'm good at spotting and fixing problems, and I have a habit of sticking my head up and saying the difficult things nobody else wants to say. So I ought to manage the team, right? Wrong! I am good at doing things and solving problems, not at managing people.

The natural career move seems to be to move into management, even for individuals who'd better serve organisations being brilliant individual contributors, just because that's often where the cash is.

 

Edited July 11 by Davkaus

[NurembergVillan]

1 hour ago, magnkarl said:

Sweden, a country with 10 million people has the murder capital of Europe

Does it? Where's your source for that?

[Jareth]

9 hours ago, magnkarl said:

Again, we’re back at the point where the statistics don’t matter because of offence. Denmark and Sweden are perfect examples, and Arabs aren’t mentioned anywhere in my post or their statistics, so you can row that projection right back, thank you.

I respect your point of view that the West constantly acts like a colonialist power (like you parroting Farage talking points on the West provoking Russia in Ukraine with CIA coups and the like) - but I don’t agree for one second.  The fact of the matter is that because no one seems willing to admit that our way of allowing rampant immigration from countries not similar in moral values to ours leads to parallel societies. It isn’t something I make up, there’s plenty of proof of both in Denmark and Sweden, and further in Wedding, Berlin, Saint Denis, Paris etc. 

Sweden, a country with 10 million people has the murder capital of Europe. Even the most left social democrat in Sweden can tell you why.

Which countries share our morals? 

[sidcow]

I ways remember a very wise man I used to work with querying why the top salesman should need to move to head of office to progress. 

Why shouldn't the top salesman earn more money than head of office? He's generating the growth, the head of office is a glorified administrator. 

[Davkaus]

9 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I ways remember a very wise man I used to work with querying why the top salesman should need to move to head of office to progress. 

Why shouldn't the top salesman earn more money than head of office? He's generating the growth, the head of office is a glorified administrator. 

Yet to bring this back to politics and the NHS, it's a frequent source of criticism that the management aren't clinicians, which I've always thought is a bit silly, for this reason.

[Demitri_C]

7 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Yet to bring this back to politics and the NHS, it's a frequent source of criticism that the management aren't clinicians, which I've always thought is a bit silly, for this reason.

Most of the ones ive experienced have fancy degrees and talk like they are smart. But in reality if you ask them to check a appointment on the system they cant do it  as they dont know how and send the query to their service manager who is below them.

I just find that unbelievable you have a senior manager who couldnt do something so simple. Clinicians although already busy ahould have more power than the senior operation managers and the way thw NHS is they dont.  Thats something I hope labour change about tbe NHS

[Seat68]

5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Most of the ones ive experienced have fancy degrees and talk like they are smart. But in reality if you ask them to check a appointment on the system they cant do it  as they dont know how and send the query to their service manager who is below them.

I just find that unbelievable you have a senior manager who couldnt do something so simple. Clinicians although already busy ahould have more power than the senior operation managers and the way thw NHS is they dont.  Thats something I hope labour change about tbe NHS

Why would a senior manager know how to complete mundane tasks like that? Its not their job.

[Demitri_C]

3 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

Why would a senior manager know how to complete mundane tasks like that? Its not their job.

Not sure if you are serious im guessing you are not

Edited July 12 by Demitri_C