limpid Posted July 7 Administrator Share Posted July 7 11 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Not true there will be a cost - where do you house them? You are not going to leave them on the streets. Thats going to cost tax payers money as well as feeding them. If you are not doing that then you are deporting them You don't, you employ enough staff to process the applications in a timely manner. And you provide application facilities in France / the EU so that you mitigate issues at crossing points and with organised crime. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 34 minutes ago, Mozzavfc said: The idea is to properly invest in the home office and actually process the asylum claims. That way we're not spending millions holding people in hotels for years. They are either accepted into the country and are allowed to work and pay taxes, like the rest of us, or they are rejected and sent back. Imagine if we clear through the backlog and end up sending 7 out 10 back. That's a much greater deterrent, than a 1/10000 chance of an all expenses paid trip to Rwanda The hotel process has been a complete disaster. Its costed so much money and you just have people thwre in limbo its not helpibg anyone. On paper investing in home office sounds good but i dont think its that simple. There has to be a proper vetting process and i think criteria e.g what skills do they have and that we need. I mean for me we should be looking at a scheme where if any were interested in becoming nurses/HCAs (a area we are massively in need of help) spend some money training them and there has to be a agreement you work here for x amount of time so they just dont get the paid training and **** off wasting time and money. The other problem isnt the ones that are already here - its preventing more coming. Thats what starmer hasnt said how he plans to tackle this issue. Im interested to see what he plans to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mjmooney Posted July 7 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted July 7 I think the Timpson appointment is inspired. He speaks a lot of sense, which can be distilled down to: "We've had a culture for far too long of putting people inside who shouldn’t be". And a very large proportion of those are women. Custodial sentences should be principally for those who are a danger to the public. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 (edited) I watched this video a few months ago that goes into some of the work he does with reformed prisoners, as well as how he generally runs his business. Quite an interesting chap, and I can see why his staff like working for him. It's a long watch, but I enjoyed it My frustrations are much more so with the ridiculous system that has lead to him being made a life peer for the sake of this job, as I think he'll do a pretty decent job. I do also think it's somewhat questionable having a part time minister with a full time CEO role leading this initiative, I guess that's a perk to not having constituency work to deal with Edited July 7 by Davkaus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted July 7 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted July 7 7 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: The hotel process has been a complete disaster. Its costed so much money and you just have people thwre in limbo its not helpibg anyone. On paper investing in home office sounds good but i dont think its that simple. There has to be a proper vetting process and i think criteria e.g what skills do they have and that we need. I mean for me we should be looking at a scheme where if any were interested in becoming nurses/HCAs (a area we are massively in need of help) spend some money training them and there has to be a agreement you work here for x amount of time so they just dont get the paid training and **** off wasting time and money. The other problem isnt the ones that are already here - its preventing more coming. Thats what starmer hasnt said how he plans to tackle this issue. Im interested to see what he plans to do You appear to be confusing legal migration and asylum seekers. The Tories like you to do that. What skills people have is irrelevant to a claim of asylum. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 This could be the beginning of the end of being punished with prison for being poor or a victim of domestic violence. The reason for the change, the cost of prison places and the prisoners bursting at the seems is irrelevant. That we might actually look at why people are in prison and what prison is for, is very promising. Theyve just got to balance it against the tough rhetoric they’ll need to spout for all the gammon that think prison is easy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 I think we need to improve services, I.e NHS, more new homes etc, before we start thinking of a better and quicker way to process immigration. We need a way to slow it down and catch up first of all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 7 Moderator Share Posted July 7 Just now, foreveryoung said: I think we need to improve services, I.e NHS, more new homes etc, before we start thinking of a better and quicker way to process immigration. We need a way to slow it down and catch up first of all. Eh? The process needs massively speeding up not down. The Tories slowed processing down and look what a mess that created. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted July 7 Administrator Share Posted July 7 2 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: I think we need to improve services, I.e NHS, more new homes etc, before we start thinking of a better and quicker way to process immigration. We need a way to slow it down and catch up first of all. We need to spend the money on processing applications instead of hotels (owned by tory party donors). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 5 minutes ago, bickster said: Eh? The process needs massively speeding up not down. The Tories slowed processing down and look what a mess that created. Needs slowing down with them coming over, so we can clear the backlog and house the ones that are here. I'll be shocked if he manages to get ontop of it while they are still flowing in at the rate they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 44 minutes ago, bickster said: You appear to be confusing legal migration and asylum seekers. The Tories like you to do that. What skills people have is irrelevant to a claim of asylum. Im referring to those that are coming illegally that we can maybe give them a new life which would make them seeking asylum Isnt most that come here illegally coming here for that purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 7 Moderator Share Posted July 7 13 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Im referring to those that are coming illegally that we can maybe give them a new life which would make them seeking asylum Isnt most that come here illegally coming here for that purpose? No, asylum seekers are those coming here to flee persecution in their own country. Their skill base is irrelevant. People coming here with skills we need, apply in advance and are legal migrants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 Westminster parachutist almost reaches moment of clarity. We look forward to the extra lobbyist for that £4.6 billion from HS2, or even just finishing the electrification of the line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 7 VT Supporter Share Posted July 7 2 hours ago, chrisp65 said: This could be the beginning of the end of being punished with prison for being poor or a victim of domestic violence. The reason for the change, the cost of prison places and the prisoners bursting at the seems is irrelevant. That we might actually look at why people are in prison and what prison is for, is very promising. Theyve just got to balance it against the tough rhetoric they’ll need to spout for all the gammon that think prison is easy. The Gammon can **** off. They've had their time and it's over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 (edited) 29 minutes ago, sidcow said: The Gammon can **** off. They've had their time and it's over. You have the evangelical energy of a political ex smoker. (not a bad thing) Edited July 7 by chrisp65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 15 hours ago, Demitri_C said: I mean for me we should be looking at a scheme where if any were interested in becoming nurses/HCAs (a area we are massively in need of help) spend some money training them and there has to be a agreement you work here for x amount of time so they just dont get the paid training and **** off wasting time and money. Why treat people like actual human beings when you can treat them like little work machines, eh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 8 Author Share Posted July 8 (edited) 19 minutes ago, bobzy said: Why treat people like actual human beings when you can treat them like little work machines, eh? Ah ok lets all not work then on that basis and not be work machines eh ? Edited July 8 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 8 Author Share Posted July 8 (edited) 16 hours ago, limpid said: You don't, you employ enough staff to process the applications in a timely manner. And you provide application facilities in France / the EU so that you mitigate issues at crossing points and with organised crime. Ok so how many staff do we need? How much we paying them? Also if successful based on criteria where we housing them and where is the money coming from? Your plan still doesnt tell us how go about tackling more from coming here. I do agree about your point about the hotels though thats a waste of money Edited July 8 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted July 8 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted July 8 14 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Im referring to those that are coming illegally that we can maybe give them a new life which would make them seeking asylum Isnt most that come here illegally coming here for that purpose? The "criteria" you talk about is irrelevant for asylum seekers. We shouldn't be (and aren't) denying people asylum because they don't have the relevant skills to work. If you're being persecuted in your own country and face genuine and real danger, then you are eligible for asylum (I'm sure it's more detailed than that but you get the point) These people come here illegally, risking their lives, because there's no legal and safe route for them to get here. If there was, and the money wasted on the Rwanda gimmick was instead put into properly processing people efficiently and thoroughly then they would spend far less time in hotels and the real illegal immigrants would be deported far faster and easier. And the amount of small boats would dramatically reduce because people wouldn't have to risk their lives to get here to legally claim asylum. And anyone left in a small boat you could almost guarantee would be an illegal immigrant because the asylum seekers would have a safe route so wouldn't have to risk their lives, and the legal migrants would come here through the existing legal routes for legal migrants. So any remaining small boats would be easier to police By the way the Tories know this, and could have done it at any time. But they knew that any sensible steps like that would have been seen as pandering to immigrants and asylum seekers and their voters couldn't' handle that. They'd rather waste hundreds of millions of pounds on a gimmick that would never work because it send the message that they're being tough on immigrants. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 8 Author Share Posted July 8 Just now, Stevo985 said: The "criteria" you talk about is irrelevant for asylum seekers. We shouldn't be (and aren't) denying people asylum because they don't have the relevant skills to work. If you're being persecuted in your own country and face genuine and real danger, then you are eligible for asylum (I'm sure it's more detailed than that but you get the point) These people come here illegally, risking their lives, because there's no legal and safe route for them to get here. If there was, and the money wasted on the Rwanda gimmick was instead put into properly processing people efficiently and thoroughly then they would spend far less time in hotels and the real illegal immigrants would be deported far faster and easier. And the amount of small boats would dramatically reduce because people wouldn't have to risk their lives to get here to legally claim asylum. And anyone left in a small boat you could almost guarantee would be an illegal immigrant because the asylum seekers would have a safe route so wouldn't have to risk their lives, and the legal migrants would come here through the existing legal routes for legal migrants. So any remaining small boats would be easier to police By the way the Tories know this, and could have done it at any time. But they knew that any sensible steps like that would have been seen as pandering to immigrants and asylum seekers and their voters couldn't' handle that. They'd rather waste hundreds of millions of pounds on a gimmick that would never work because it send the message that they're being tough on immigrants. Im sure everyone would welcome these people in if we could but the sad reality we cannot. We cant even house alot of own. You seen how many homeless we have ? And so many paying into the tax system that cannot afford a property. Thats the biggest issue. Housing them, adding more people who will need NHS care when are already struggling. You cant just bring people here house them, tell them not to contribute/work (im pretty sure alot of them will want to work and make a living which is great) im in for immigration as they do alot of jobs people dont want to do here and add value. It just needs to be done in a correct manner that doesnt inflate the country as we are already in a financial mess as country. The tories made a **** mess of this as we know so im hoping starmer can improve not continue the mess or make it worse.i just have my reservations he wont as he was given countless opportunities to tell us during the debates his plan and he said very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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