Davkaus Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 In other news, I'd missed that Jacqui Smith has also been elevated to the lords so she can be put in the cabinet. I'd mellowed on the Timpson appointment after reading some other posts in here, but the disgraced former home secretary given a life peerage because she's apparently got invaluable experience to bring to the education policy? My piss is thoroughly reboiled. With 400 odd elected members to select from, it's surprising, and not the greatest advert for his belief in their skills, that he needs to parachute in disgraced former politicians into the lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 The ID cards from Blair is a valid point made. Otherwise he says we are going to have to put a lot of work into how we control our borders. We shouldn’t be letting anyone here who’s going to go under the radar and not offer anything to the country for example does not work . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 7 Moderator Share Posted July 7 8 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I am on the fence about the idea, I'm open to the idea that they could potentially be used to streamline some of the existing checks around the right to work, and so on. The devil is in the detail and given our government's track record of taking our data and then flogging it to the private sector, I'm sceptical. But if you do want the policy to succeed, you probably don't want Tony Blair advocating for it. I'm on the fence too tbh, I just thought it was an interesting prospective from someone who is living the experience and just amazing timing that we had that conversation last night and today it’s a topic of conversation for exactly the same reasons as she outlined last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 7 VT Supporter Share Posted July 7 7 minutes ago, Davkaus said: In other news, I'd missed that Jacqui Smith has also been elevated to the lords so she can be put in the cabinet. I'd mellowed on the Timpson appointment after reading some other posts in here, but the disgraced former home secretary given a life peerage because she's apparently got invaluable experience to bring to the education policy? My piss is thoroughly reboiled. With 400 odd elected members to select from, it's surprising, and not the greatest advert for his belief in their skills, that he needs to parachute in disgraced former politicians into the lords. This is a Labour Party that idolises New Labour. You'd probably get decent odds on Lord Blair happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 I.D. Cards are a great idea that can be openly discussed as soon as the government can assure us all govt computerised systems are immune from hacking and the Post Office scandal couldn’t possibly happen again and the government doesn’t spy on people for legally being in a trade union or an ecology activist. We have plenty of existing i.d. for those that choose to opt in, from national insurance numbers, to driving licenses, passports and bus passes. Whilst there are NHS computers hacked and N.I. Number scams and government ministers not noticing post masters being jailed to save some managers some bonuses, I’m unconvinced we need another layer. Let’s start small, let’s convince the NHS to stop using fax machines. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, limpid said: You have really convinced me I dont have to convince you its my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 7 Moderator Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: The ID cards from Blair is a valid point made. Otherwise he says we are going to have to put a lot of work into how we control our borders. We use passports to control borders. You can’t get in (legally) without one (excluding refugees granted permission to come here before they travel). Much of the world also needs a visa. It’s not border control that is the issue, it’s that people who get in illegally or who overstay their visa frequently disappear, and there’s not a great deal around to find them. ID cards might help, but I suspect not by much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 (edited) 1 hour ago, Davkaus said: In other news, I'd missed that Jacqui Smith has also been elevated to the lords so she can be put in the cabinet. I'd mellowed on the Timpson appointment after reading some other posts in here, but the disgraced former home secretary given a life peerage because she's apparently got invaluable experience to bring to the education policy? My piss is thoroughly reboiled. With 400 odd elected members to select from, it's surprising, and not the greatest advert for his belief in their skills, that he needs to parachute in disgraced former politicians into the lords. I think it's a harder sell than the Timpson one, but there is still some pretty sound logic in it, and your second paragraph is the reason. Albeit not skills but experience. After 14 years out of power, there is hardly anyone in the party with experience of how government works. I think the idea is that they don't two years of time to learn the ropes, so give Philipson someone to hold her hand in the Department of Education. Give Streeting someone who knows which fights are coming and where the bear-traps are. Edited July 7 by ml1dch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 39 minutes ago, blandy said: We use passports to control borders. You can’t get in (legally) without one (excluding refugees granted permission to come here before they travel). Much of the world also needs a visa. It’s not border control that is the issue, it’s that people who get in illegally or who overstay their visa frequently disappear, and there’s not a great deal around to find them. ID cards might help, but I suspect not by much. You can only get in with a passport, you can only get a job with a national insurance number… yet…yet. Having another tier of id to do the same thing is clearly a waste of money to appease the control freaks and the scared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 7 VT Supporter Share Posted July 7 Lots of talk today about resetting our relationship with The EU. Also about accelerating Net Zero plans. The talk is excellent. Just need to do the walk now but I've liked pretty much everything I've heard so far. Feels like a weight has been lifted in all honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted July 7 Administrator Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: I dont have to convince you its my opinion I didn't realise it was an opinion It appeared to be an argument from personal incredulity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 7 VT Supporter Share Posted July 7 17 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Has he said what his plan is instead? I dont mind that its scrapped but what is his plan to deal with it instead? All he said is deal with the criminal games in the debates. Why how you doing that starmer ? You are PM now so needs to tell us what his alternative is. Looking forward in next few weeks to see what his plan is. The funny thing is doing literally nothing would have been better than the Rwanda gimmick. It would have given us the same outcome but wouldn’t have wasted a few hundred million quid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 9 minutes ago, limpid said: I didn't realise it was an opinion It appeared to be an argument from personal incredulity. You responded to me so why do i need to convince you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: The funny thing is doing literally nothing would have been better than the Rwanda gimmick. It would have given us the same outcome but wouldn’t have wasted a few hundred million quid Not true there will be a cost - where do you house them? You are not going to leave them on the streets. Thats going to cost tax payers money as well as feeding them. If you are not doing that then you are deporting them Edited July 7 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 14 minutes ago, sidcow said: Lots of talk today about resetting our relationship with The EU. Also about accelerating Net Zero plans. The talk is excellent. Just need to do the walk now but I've liked pretty much everything I've heard so far. Feels like a weight has been lifted in all honesty. I dont see how he does that though unless we accept more EU policies. But lets see what he comes back with. Ill happily rejoin the EU but starmers alreafy ruled this out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: Not true there will be a cost - where do you house them? You are not going to leave them on the streets. Thats going to cost tax payers money as well as feeding them. If you are not doing that then you are deporting them We're still paying that cost though, the "best case" was we'd send less than 1% of the annual arrivals to Rwanda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 Just now, Davkaus said: We're still paying that cost though, the "best case" was we'd send less than 1% of the annual arrivals to Rwanda. Its gonna cost money though whatever they decide unless they deport or make them permanent UK residents but even then you still need to rehouse them. That feels abit unfair though when you have homeless people here and veterans who struggling. Its no easy answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 7 Moderator Share Posted July 7 4 minutes ago, Davkaus said: We're still paying that cost though, the "best case" was we'd send less than 1% of the annual arrivals to Rwanda. Rwanda actually increased that cost because decisions weren’t being made, the backlog increased and so did the housing and other costs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozzavfc Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 7 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Not true there will be a cost - where do you house them? You are not going to leave them on the streets. Thats going to cost tax payers money as well as feeding them. If you are not doing that then you are deporting them The idea is to properly invest in the home office and actually process the asylum claims. That way we're not spending millions holding people in hotels for years. They are either accepted into the country and are allowed to work and pay taxes, like the rest of us, or they are rejected and sent back. Imagine if we clear through the backlog and end up sending 7 out 10 back. That's a much greater deterrent, than a 1/10000 chance of an all expenses paid trip to Rwanda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 Just now, bickster said: Rwanda actually increased that cost because decisions weren’t being made, the backlog increased and so did the housing and other costs And don't forget the potential for them to send people the other way I approach any Tory legislation with a natural scepticism, but it's truly impressive how stupid the Rwanda scheme was, from start to finish. It couldn't possibly work, it was incredibly expensive, it came with the perks that they'd only take the easy ones, and return to us any criminals or people with complex health needs, and they could send some to us! The idea that sending 1% of people would be an effective deterrent was ludicrous, and then there's the "it's safe because we legislated that it's safe. Also up is now down, because the law says". Absolute rank incompetence, every step of the way. It'd have been more effective to spray paint "**** off home " onto the cliffs of Dover, and we probably could have got Suella or Nigel to do that for free 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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