DaoDeMings Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 13 minutes ago, sidcow said: Probably. Everyone is rushing to the middle where the vast majority of the voting population live. The new Tory/Reform can sit on the far right proposing nutty policies that a few like and the majority reject and the new Corbyn or whatever party can sit on the far left proposing nutty policy ideas that a few like and the majority reject. Bully for the outsiders. I'll worry when either become mainstream. Eternal status quo and apathy it is then. When governments pander to the political middle out of fear of saying anything remotely controversial you get a situation like now where nothing ever gets done, governments act in the extreme short-term and narratives and the direction of political travel are led by the media and corporations. The climate crisis is making this issue increasingly pressing. The 'mainstream' middle ground will continue to do nothing about it until it's too late (it probably already is). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaoDeMings Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 34 minutes ago, ml1dch said: While I think this is all being handled pretty objectionably, it's not like this is a new thing. See the Sam Tarry / Jas Athwal switch in Ilford South shortly before the 2019 election. Or the glee from some at the deselection of people on the other side of the party, when it was their side who got to do the deselecting. (apparently that tweet can't be embedded for some reason) It's shite when it happens from either side. This is my bias talking but with deselection under Corbyn it at least felt like there was a more democratic process to it. Starmer lied to get leadership of the party and then took power away from members. Corbyn could at least say he had a mandate for deselection from membership 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted May 30 VT Supporter Share Posted May 30 (edited) 11 minutes ago, DaoDeMings said: Eternal status quo and apathy it is then. When governments pander to the political middle out of fear of saying anything remotely controversial you get a situation like now where nothing ever gets done, governments act in the extreme short-term and narratives and the direction of political travel are led by the media and corporations. The climate crisis is making this issue increasingly pressing. The 'mainstream' middle ground will continue to do nothing about it until it's too late (it probably already is). Stuff is getting done. They just want to make sure they're there to influence what gets done. Governments have left and right leanings. We're probably moving towards America now when the leanings have all shifted to the right for both parties, maybe in future it will all move to the left again. But people like Farage (OK he's had his day) and Corbyyn just seem like mad men shouting at the moon to the majority of people. Stuff will happen in the next 4 years. I expect the health service and social security to improve. I expect we'll take back more control and ownership of our energy. Maybe water and trains come back to public ownership so we get better water and transport. We'll probably get better relations with Europe that will help grow our economy increasing tax to help with other things. You're confusing things that you want to happen not happening, with nothing happening. There will be plenty happening. Personally I'll rejoice when I see a brand new wind turbine being being built on land near me, or a new solar farm spring up somewhere nearby. Labour will allow that. Tories won't. Edited May 30 by sidcow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 2 minutes ago, DaoDeMings said: Eternal status quo and apathy it is then. When governments pander to the political middle out of fear of saying anything remotely controversial you get a situation like now where nothing ever gets done I don't think that's really true. There are long-term structural problems which go back decades (which I accept could be attributed to the above), but the immediate, here-and-now problems are caused by a Government leaning heavily in to "nutty policies that a few like" and dealing with the decade of fall-out from making a radical policy, which was a million miles away from the political middle into the driving focus of the last four administrations. That's not to say that the structural problems aren't still there, but the radical fringe is more to blame right now than the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaoDeMings Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 (edited) 21 minutes ago, sidcow said: Stuff is getting done. They just want to make sure they're there to influence what gets done. Governments have left and right leanings. We're probably moving towards America now when the leanings have all shifted to the right for both parties, maybe in future it will all move to the left again. But people like Farage (OK he's had his day) and Corbyyn just seem like mad men shouting at the moon to the majority of people. Stuff will happen in the next 4 years. I expect the health service and social security to improve. I expect we'll take back more control and ownership of our energy. Maybe water and trains come back to public ownership so we get better water and transport. We'll probably get better relations with Europe that will help grow our economy increasing tax to help with other things. You're confusing things that you want to happen not happening, with nothing happening. There will be plenty happening. Personally I'll rejoice when I see a brand new wind turbine being being built on land near me, or a new solar farm spring up somewhere nearby. Labour will allow that. Tories won't. Clearly when I say 'nothing happening' I'm not being entirely literal. Obviously, I would rather Labour in than the Tories. By suggesting nothing will change I mean in a broad sense. Things will improve under Labour but I don't think they'll change fundamentally enough to solve the bigger problems of inequality and especially climate change. I personally find it hard to look past the fact that we're heading toward a massive destructive climate event and nobody is committed to doing anything about it. IMO, the only way we can deal with it is by changing the economic system fundamentally. Solar panels won't do it. And on Corbyn, he got 40-odd percent of the vote in 2017. I think he (or at least his policies) was more popular than the media would have you believe. The leanings have shifted right not because people think Corbyn's politics are mad but because the media dictates the political conversation and it benefits the media if the governments in charge are right wing. Edited May 30 by DaoDeMings 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaoDeMings Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 10 minutes ago, ml1dch said: I don't think that's really true. There are long- term structural problems which go back decades (which I accept could be attributed to the above), but the immediate, here-and-now problems are caused by a Government leaning heavily in to "nutty policies that a few like" and dealing with the decade of fall-out from making a radical policy, which was a million miles away from the political middle into the driving focus of the last four administrations. That's not to say that the structural problems aren't still there, but the radical fringe is more to blame right now than the status quo. This is what I'm talking about, and I have no faith that this Labour government will resolve them. This iteration of the Labour Party is definitely more electable than Corbyn's. Corbyn was a crap leader. And I'm so glad that Starmer will get the Tories out. But this lot still offers me no hope for my future and the future of the rest of the planet. For the record, I don't think Starmer would have beaten Boris in 2019 either. And what he's doing to the party now is moving the political conversation to the right and making those long-term structural problems you mentioned even harder to change. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 30 VT Supporter Share Posted May 30 The country is on a track. The destination is set. The destination cannot be expressly changed. The direction of travel cannot be pointedly changed. Suggestions of alternatives are mocked, derided, lied about. The journey cannot be changed meaningfully. We can change there carpet if we try very hard and are very lucky, and we can rearrange the chairs. But nothing of the big picture can change. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 (edited) Another one: Quote The Labour Party has removed a parliamentary candidate, less than two weeks after she received the endorsement of her local party. Former journalist and campaigner Sally Gimson announced on 27 October that she was "delighted to have been selected" to represent Labour in Bassetlaw, Nottinghamshire. But Labour's National Executive Committee (NEC) deselected her earlier. The Remain supporter said she had been "condemned by a kangaroo court". The Labour Party said it did not comment on its internal selection processes. Spoiler Actually, no - like Jas Atwal this deselection happened in the run-up to the 2019 election. A quick glance at the posts at the time and nobody seemed to think it was particularly sinister or problematic. Edited May 30 by ml1dch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 Labour welcomes former president and convicted felon, Donald Trump. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 30 Moderator Share Posted May 30 9 hours ago, Jareth said: None of this is a surprise. Labour have a strategy and are sticking to it. It does feel like we might see a new party of the left at some point, there are a lot of good people who cannot be in Labour. Another one? There’s already loads of them, enough for 100 remakes of Life of Brian with no repeats. Even just the Trotskyite’s have about 6 and spend their entire lives dedicated to the mental gymnastics of how Ice Pick man's speech in 1917 to the 47th district Soviet of frozen bollocks translates to modern society Some of these imbeciles even band together and stand in elections until they fall out about whose turn it is to shag Vanessa this month and in 1962 Ted Grant said it was their turn but Gerry Healy didnt keep his word… They’d argue about the thickness of ciggie papers and how Lenin said they should be 3 microns but that bastard Stalin insisted on them being 2 microns which is how they ended up as 5 because of the bourgeois infilt(er)ators Which great sociopath is going to lead this party and how long before they split over the price of the red flag they donated to the peoples tombola at the socialist summer fayre 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjenkins Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 6 minutes ago, bickster said: Another one? There’s already loads of them, enough for 100 remakes of Life of Brian with no repeats. Even just the Trotskyite’s have about 6 and spend their entire lives dedicated to the mental gymnastics of how Ice Pick man's speech in 1917 to the 47th district Soviet of frozen bollocks translates to modern society Some of these imbeciles even band together and stand in elections until they fall out about whose turn it is to shag Vanessa this month and in 1962 Ted Grant said it was their turn but Gerry Healy didnt keep his word… They’d argue about the thickness of ciggie papers and how Lenin said they should be 3 microns but that bastard Stalin insisted on them being 2 microns which is how they ended up as 5 because of the bourgeois infilt(er)ators Which great sociopath is going to lead this party and how long before they split over the price of the red flag they donated to the peoples tombola at the socialist summer fayre I think cigarette papers are thicker than 5 micron? Could be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 30 Moderator Share Posted May 30 Just now, rjenkins said: I think cigarette papers are thicker than 5 micron? Could be wrong Bloody capitalists! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishywashy Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjenkins Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 8 minutes ago, wishywashy said: Dido Harding would have wanted millions for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 8 minutes ago, wishywashy said: It's literally the opposite of the one they're claimed of copying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 30 Moderator Share Posted May 30 3 minutes ago, Davkaus said: It's literally the opposite of the one they're claimed of copying Hi ChatGPT, design me a logo for… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted May 31 VT Supporter Share Posted May 31 9 hours ago, bickster said: Bloody capitalists! Surely capitalism would see them as 2 microns. Think of the shrinkflation extra profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanpabloangel18 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 (edited) So this Luke Akehurst guy seems nice, although he's deleted about 2000 tweets this week so it's hard to check. I also note that he chairs Labour MP selection panels! Who'd have thought! So - nothing remotely troubling at all about a fully paid up lobbyist for a pariah state (Israel) deselecting democratically elected candidates and then himself being parachuted into a safe seat. Starmer really doing his best Stalin impression yet this week. What a dreadful time to be a social democrat. Edited May 31 by juanpabloangel18 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 31 Moderator Share Posted May 31 1 hour ago, sidcow said: Surely capitalism would see them as 2 microns. Think of the shrinkflation extra profits. you're thinking is all wrong, Engels would disagree only the wealthy can afford 10 microns, ciggie papers aren't for the workers in the capitalist system. CIggie papers are designed to divide us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 5 minutes ago, juanpabloangel18 said: So this Luke Akehurst guy seems nice, although he's deleted about 2000 tweets this week so it's hard to check. I also note that he chairs Labour MP selection panels! Who'd have thought! So - nothing remotely troubling at all about a fully paid up lobbyist for a pariah state (Israel) deselecting democratically elected candidates and then himself being parachuted into a safe seat. Starmer really doing his best Stalin impression yet this week. What a dreadful time to be a social democrat. I don’t think you’re supposed to vote Labour based on this sort of thought process. The idea is, we need the tories out so vote Labour and make a wish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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