bickster Posted August 12, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 12, 2020 12 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: If we lived in a fairly safe country where we didnt have so much crime id say we dont need it. But we dont unfortunately Except, we actually do 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 13 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: The thing as a white man i might not be black but ill understand it. Some of my closest frienda are black and mauritian. We use to be in Tottenham as my friend lived there and it was really rough back (still is to a extent) We all got stopped and searched a few times. My friends didnt take it personally due to the conduct of the police who were friendly explained the situation of why. We didnt feel victimised at all. Just leaving them to do there job. I just think not having stop and search provided its done properly and doesnt discriminate against a group of people isnt a bad thing. There has to be justification for it and good training for the police to follow a process that works and doesnt discriminate. If we lived in a fairly safe country where we didnt have so much crime id say we dont need it. But we dont unfortunately Did you look at those statistics from the Prison Reform Trust? If you and your black mates were convicted of the same crime, they would be far more likely to go to prison than you, for the same offence at the same time in the same place. I don’t think anyone is saying the police shouldn’t be allowed to search suspects. you are pushing against an open door there. It’s a debate about what it is that makes the police identify someone as a suspect. A kid riding a scooter erratically, no helmet. Stopped on suspicion he’s nicked the scooter, probably 100% legit stop. A middle aged black couple, stopped for driving a taxed and insured nice car, wrongly and irrelevantly identified as registered in Yorkshire. A bit less legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, bickster said: Except, we actually do Not sure if your actually serious. Daily murders is safe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Did you look at those statistics from the Prison Reform Trust? If you and your black mates were convicted of the same crime, they would be far more likely to go to prison than you, for the same offence at the same time in the same place. I don’t think anyone is saying the police shouldn’t be allowed to search suspects. you are pushing against an open door there. It’s a debate about what it is that makes the police identify someone as a suspect. A kid riding a scooter erratically, no helmet. Stopped on suspicion he’s nicked the scooter, probably 100% legit stop. A middle aged black couple, stopped for driving a taxed and insured nice car, wrongly and irrelevantly identified as registered in Yorkshire. A bit less legit. No i havent but i will give it later chris for sure when i get a chance. The problem with the what identifies a suspect even in scenerio one you will still have some people saying is it because of their skin colour thats going to chnage whatever you do. I havent even commented on the politician as i dont know the facts or tye story ro be honest i was just speaking generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 12, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 12, 2020 Just now, Demitri_C said: Not sure if your actually serious. Daily murders is safe? I'm entirely serious, we do not live in an unsafe country By your "murder rate" evaluation we are 185th out of 230 countries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 Just now, bickster said: I'm entirely serious, we do not live in an unsafe country By your "murder rate" evaluation we are 185th out of 230 countries Im sorry but this is so untrue. This country is not a aafe place to live in my opinion. Id happily invite you round my area and you would not not walk around here after 10pm. You will either got mugged or stabbed. For our country our size which isnt even that big its a dangerous place to live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 12, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 12, 2020 29 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: The thing as a white man i might not be black but ill understand it. Some of my closest frienda are black and mauritian. We use to be in Tottenham as my friend lived there and it was really rough back (still is to a extent) We all got stopped and searched a few times. My friends didnt take it personally due to the conduct of the police who were friendly explained the situation of why. We didnt feel victimised at all. Just leaving them to do there job. I don't think you can understand it. Certainly not fully. Just because your tiny sample size of a couple of your mates didn't have a problem with it doesn't mean there isn't a problem./ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 12, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 12, 2020 Literally every country in the world (aside from the absolute smallest) have daily murder. Humans are shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 Just now, Stevo985 said: I don't think you can understand it. Certainly not fully. Just because your tiny sample size of a couple of your mates didn't have a problem with it doesn't mean there isn't a problem./ Didnt say there wasnt a problem stevo. I like to go on my personal experience and people who i know have had the issue . Where you think it giny or not doesnt mean its wrong or not. You just dont share the same opinion on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 12, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: Im sorry but this is so untrue. This country is not a aafe place to live in my opinion. Id happily invite you round my area and you would not not walk around here after 10pm. You will either got mugged or stabbed. For our country our size which isnt even that big its a dangerous place to live 45th out of 230 is not safe But 21st out of 230 is not big Got it, makes perfect sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 12, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: Im sorry but this is so untrue. Well it might be if it wasn't an actual fact I quoted at you using your choice of determinant All I can say is stop believing shite in the press. The press thrives on making you think crime is bad, when any simple factual analysis proves it isn't 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 12, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Literally every country in the world (aside from the absolute smallest) have daily murder. Humans are shit. And most murders are domestic incidents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 12, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 12, 2020 14 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Didnt say there wasnt a problem stevo. I like to go on my personal experience and people who i know have had the issue . Where you think it giny or not doesnt mean its wrong or not. You just dont share the same opinion on it. Again I'm not talking about your opinion. I disagree with your opinion but it is a valid one, even though I think it's wrong. However, your personal experience is irrelevant when it comes to racism in the police force (and I would argue if you're basing your opinion on that then it might be why I disagree with your opinion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 11 minutes ago, bickster said: Well it might be if it wasn't an actual fact I quoted at you using your choice of determinant All I can say is stop believing shite in the press. The press thrives on making you think crime is bad, when any simple factual analysis proves it isn't I dont believe the press i go by what i read and see myself. If you think its safe by all means thats your opinion. I think your wrong. But in my opinion this is not a safe country whatsoever. Anywhere your getting daily murderers isnt a safe place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 12, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I dont believe the press i go by what i read and see myself. If you think its safe by all means thats your opinion. I think your wrong. But in my opinion this is not a safe country whatsoever. Anywhere your getting daily murderers isnt a safe place. emigrate to the moon, its about your only option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 15 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Im sorry but this is so untrue. This country is not a aafe place to live in my opinion. Id happily invite you round my area and you would not not walk around here after 10pm. You will either got mugged or stabbed. For our country our size which isnt even that big its a dangerous place to live Dem, you are arguing against statistical facts. It’s not an opinion that the UK is relatively safe compared with almost all other countries, its fact gathered and worked out by the Office of National Statistics. There are less murders now, per million of the population, than there were 20 years ago, roughly the same number as 40 years ago. It might be more dangerous specifically where you live, than in Devon or Aberystwyth, but it is palin truth that the UK is comparatively safe. You take out domestic violence (80 women murdered by their partner or ex partner last year) and there were less than 600 murders in a population of nearly 70 million. You’ve got more chance of winning the lottery. It might not ‘feel’ safe, it might be that you live in a hot spot. But I’ve been walking around at night for half a century and the number of times I’ve been murdered is very very low. That doesn’t mean there is no murder. It means I mustn’t confuse my personal experience with statistical fact. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 Just now, Stevo985 said: Again I'm not talking about your opinion. I disagree with your opinion but it is a valid one, even though I think it's wrong. However, your personal experience is irrelevant when it comes to racism in the police force (and I would argue if you're basing your opinion on that then it might be why I disagree with your opinion) Thanks thats ok we both share differeing views on this subject which i guess what debating involves. If we all agreed in everything being a boring place eh? Its not just that but i think the police has come a long way to where we were. I always maintain that. Not perfect by any means though and needs better training in a host of cases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 12, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 12, 2020 Facts v feels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 Just now, bickster said: emigrate to the moon, its about your only option And up give burgers? You trying to finish me off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 Opinions not facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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