Graham t Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 hour ago, bickster said: No more people have called you out for talking bollocks again 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: Is it written in crayon ? Not exactly intelligent contributions then........ please try harder, your friend VLD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Starmer going in hard on the SNP and their shambolic A level results algorithm in Scotland. I presume he must have been briefed that Labour’s A levels in Wales are going to be uncontentious. It’s just going to be a year with an asterisk against it, it can’t be considered standard because its nowhere near standard. It’s (hopefully) a one off novelty year where everyone will know to just treat it different. Like Liverpool winning the Premier League. We’re waiting on results here but in the very lucky position of having an unconditional offer already lined up from Uni’s that had the good fortune to offer entrance exams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Graham t said: Incidentally Dawn Butler has refused to release , all of her recording of the police stop ( which was of the driver, not her ). She was apparently abusive, rude and generally uncooperative. She wanted the attention, typical 'victim' behaviour. The police are the 'victims ' here. Heroes to a man, I for one, am proud of our boys and girls in blue. VLD. A lot of big conclusions for someone who hasn't seen the video. Might I venture to suggest that you were absolutely never going to come to any other conclusion than the one you have reached. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham t Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Just now, HanoiVillan said: A lot of big conclusions for someone who hasn't seen the video. Might I venture to suggest that you were absolutely never going to come to any other conclusion than the one you have reached. I could say exactly the same to you....... Think before you post please, ( I know it's late I suppose), and , for heavens sake please try to answer some of the points I have raised.... VLD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Graham t said: I could say exactly the same to you....... Think before you post please, ( I know it's late I suppose), and , for heavens sake please try to answer some of the points I have raised.... VLD. What points have you raised? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham t Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: What points have you raised? You could always re-read my posts... Here's another point to consider.....In the first line of her twitter account she maintained that 'she' had been stopped by the police. She hadn't, the driver of the car was stopped by the police, the fact that Butler was in the car was irrelevant to the police. All politicians have 'agendas' it's what they do, she has seized an opportunity to play the victim here. What exactly did the police do that was so upsetting? They didn't exactly manacle her to railings did they? The police admitted they made a mistake, for heavens sake let's move on and let them do their jobs without 'grandstanding ' politicians playing the victim. As I have said before, 'How can I help you officer' is the correct stance when addressing our heroes in blue. Hope this helps, VLD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted August 11, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Graham t said: You could always re-read my posts... To be honest with you, it's really hot and I'm not in the mood, but thank you for answering this post and we'll take it from here. 3 minutes ago, Graham t said: Here's another point to consider.....In the first line of her twitter account she maintained that 'she' had been stopped by the police. She hadn't, the driver of the car was stopped by the police, the fact that Butler was in the car was irrelevant to the police. It seems like an entirely reasonable shorthand to me to say 'I was stopped by police' instead of 'the car I was in was stopped by police'. I don't know what you think this gotcha proves, but it really doesn't prove anything at all. It is not important to her point in any way whether she was driving the car, or somebody else was, since the driver was black and she is arguing it is an part of a pattern of institutional racism around stopping black drivers. 11 minutes ago, Graham t said: All politicians have 'agendas' it's what they do, she has seized an opportunity to play the victim here. What exactly did the police do that was so upsetting? They didn't exactly manacle her to railings did they? It's not a pleasant experience to be stopped by the police, and it is not unreasonable to expect there to be a reason for that unpleasant experience to happen. I would be On Here complaining about it if I was stopped by the police for no reason. I doubt many people would just say 'oh it's fine get over it' if I did so either, and I doubt whether you would accuse me of 'playing the victim' in that case. She has since stated a statistic that 85% of car stops of black people lead to no further action: . . . which certainly doesn't seem like a very effective thing to be doing, when it is also unpleasant and invasive. 17 minutes ago, Graham t said: The police admitted they made a mistake Seems like you could potentially integrate that fact a little more fully into your view of the situation to be honest. 18 minutes ago, Graham t said: for heavens sake let's move on and let them do their jobs without 'grandstanding ' politicians playing the victim. Well, firstly if 'mistakes' are not to happen again then lessons need to be learned, which does not happen with just 'moving on', and secondly you yourself just stated that the police 'admitted they made a mistake', so she isn't 'playing' the victim, she quite literally *is* the victim of that mistake. 20 minutes ago, Graham t said: As I have said before, 'How can I help you officer' is the correct stance when addressing our heroes in blue. Spoken like somebody who never has to worry about being stopped or harrassed by the police for no good reason. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LondonLax Posted August 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 12, 2020 6 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: To be honest with you, it's really hot and I'm not in the mood, but thank you for answering this post and we'll take it from here. It seems like an entirely reasonable shorthand to me to say 'I was stopped by police' instead of 'the car I was in was stopped by police'. I don't know what you think this gotcha proves, but it really doesn't prove anything at all. It is not important to her point in any way whether she was driving the car, or somebody else was, since the driver was black and she is arguing it is an part of a pattern of institutional racism around stopping black drivers. It's not a pleasant experience to be stopped by the police, and it is not unreasonable to expect there to be a reason for that unpleasant experience to happen. I would be On Here complaining about it if I was stopped by the police for no reason. I doubt many people would just say 'oh it's fine get over it' if I did so either, and I doubt whether you would accuse me of 'playing the victim' in that case. She has since stated a statistic that 85% of car stops of black people lead to no further action: . . . which certainly doesn't seem like a very effective thing to be doing, when it is also unpleasant and invasive. Seems like you could potentially integrate that fact a little more fully into your view of the situation to be honest. Well, firstly if 'mistakes' are not to happen again then lessons need to be learned, which does not happen with just 'moving on', and secondly you yourself just stated that the police 'admitted they made a mistake', so she isn't 'playing' the victim, she quite literally *is* the victim of that mistake. Spoken like somebody who never has to worry about being stopped or harrassed by the police for no good reason. You have more patience than I. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 I guess for me and potentially Graham, if something happened once because I am white, I would shrug that off Maybe not even think well that’s down to me being white, it’s kind of funny if it is, no big deal though. If it kept happening, then it might start to wear a little. It might get laughable, it might start to make you angry. When I am in Vegas they have timeshare hawkers. No pat down, don’t really stop me, don’t ask me to provide my details, don’t ask me why I am there, don’t cuff me whilst they check a few details. They literally just ask if I can spare a minute, but its got to the point where they are disturbing my day, my conversation. How dare they. It visibly pisses me off. This is a timeshare salesman. I have the same reaction to chuggers. So for me, being a white male who the height of being hassled is occasionally being asked by an over polite student then in all honesty I can appreciate how pissed off it would make a black or asian person having to deal with the police on a regular basis. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) Edit: The points were raised subsequently and I'm not at all surprised by the 'they didn't exactly manicle her to railings' line. That about sums it all up. Edited August 12, 2020 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 12, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 12, 2020 7 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Spoken like somebody who never has to worry about being stopped or harrassed by the police for no good reason. Spoken like someone who has done far more stopping than being actually stopped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 On 10/08/2020 at 11:16, tonyh29 said: At face value it does .. Parts of Hackney aren't 't exactly the nicest part of London (its 6th on boroughs of London crime list and 4th on knife crime ) , you could argue that a police presence and random stop and search is a good thing on that basis , however google will show you that Black people are four times more likely to be stopped and searched than white people in Hackney and this article seems to be the police saying exaclty that they are profiling Your absolutely right about hackey it is horrendous there. I had a uncle that lives there. Thankfulky he has moved. I would not step foot there again as you seriously are in danger of something happening to you. Its a complete shit hole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Seat68 said: I guess for me and potentially Graham, if something happened once because I am white, I would shrug that off Maybe not even think well that’s down to me being white, it’s kind of funny if it is, no big deal though. If it kept happening, then it might start to wear a little. It might get laughable, it might start to make you angry. When I am in Vegas they have timeshare hawkers. No pat down, don’t really stop me, don’t ask me to provide my details, don’t ask me why I am there, don’t cuff me whilst they check a few details. They literally just ask if I can spare a minute, but its got to the point where they are disturbing my day, my conversation. How dare they. It visibly pisses me off. This is a timeshare salesman. I have the same reaction to chuggers. So for me, being a white male who the height of being hassled is occasionally being asked by an over polite student then in all honesty I can appreciate how pissed off it would make a black or asian person having to deal with the police on a regular basis. Mentioned something similar like weeks ago. Ive been pulled over lots of times but white black asian etc. Most have been fine polite explained they had a crime of a person that had some features as me. Let them search me wont fins anything then wish me good day. People really need to give the police a break here its bloody hard job they have. I have seen worse policing in many other countries than here. Ive seen people beaten in countries by police with nightsticks for just slapping a police car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 12, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 12, 2020 9 hours ago, Graham t said: The police admitted they made a mistake 12 hours ago, Graham t said: Incidentally Dawn Butler has refused to release , all of her recording of the police stop ( which was of the driver, not her ). She was apparently abusive, rude and generally uncooperative. She wanted the attention, typical 'victim' behaviour. The police are the 'victims ' here. Heroes to a man, I for one, am proud of our boys and girls in blue. VLD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Mentioned something similar like weeks ago. Ive been pulled over lots of times but white black asian etc. Most have been fine polite explained they had a crime of a person that had some features as me. Let them search me wont fins anything then wish me good day. People really need to give the police a break here its bloody hard job they have. I have seen worse policing in many other countries than here. Ive seen people beaten in countries by police with nightsticks for just slapping a police car. Ah - the good ol' "it's worse somewhere else, so let's ignore the issues we can deal with" argument.. In Germany they have no speed limits on certain stretches of the autobahn, so why should I drive in 30 here in the UK? In Russia you are imprisoned for being gay, why should we protest gay rights here? Come on man. Edited August 12, 2020 by magnkarl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Ah - the good ol' "it's worse somewhere else, so let's ignore the issues we can deal with" argument.. In Germany they have no speed limits on certain stretches of the autobahn, so why should I drive in 30 here in the UK? In Russia you are imprisoned for being gay, why should we protest gay rights here? Come on man. What argument? So your telling policing in the uk is one of the worst in the world? Also where am i ignoring the issues? Edited August 12, 2020 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 12, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 12, 2020 Just now, Demitri_C said: What argument? So your telling policing in the uk is one of the worst in the world? The point is, that because others are worse does not mean we can't make ours better 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bickster said: The point is, that because others are worse does not mean we can't make ours better I agree with that bicks but i havent said it couldnt be improved. But it seems that its ignored how difficult a poilcemans job is in the uk. But i think its abit dramatic that we have serious issues in the MET compared to.other countries. There is a incredible shortage of police officers for starters and that needs addressing. Is it perfect no. Does it need improvement sure id agree with that. Is there shit police? Yes everywhere whereever you will go there will be. Just like estate agents, councillors, local mps etc. You will get bad and good. Edited August 12, 2020 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 12, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 12, 2020 Poverty is worse in other parts of the world, so hungry people here should be happy and we should focus on other things. It's not a good argument. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: I agree with that bicks but i havent said it couldnt be improved. But it seems that its ignored how difficult a poilcemans job is in the uk. But i think its abit dramatic that we have serious issues in the MET compared to.other countries. You are arguing here against points nobody is disputing. Nobody argues the police have it easy and nobody thinks we need to grateful because we are not Belarus. I couldn’t care less about policing in China or Mexico, it’s here I’m concerned about. The police have a very tough job. For some reason, some police appear determined to make it harder for themselves. You might also want to consider something like the Stephen Lawrence investigation and the Macpherson Report when thinking people are being dramatic about the Met. Their own boss thinks there is still a lot of work to do to combat their internal racism. 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: There is a incredible shortage of police officers for starters and that needs addressing. The conservative government cut the police by 21,000 At the next election, many people will look at all the unaddressed crime and think, ooh, we need a strong party of law and order. I’d better vote tory. 2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Is it perfect no. Does it need improvement sure id agree with that. Is there shit police? Yes everywhere whereever you will go there will be. Just like estate agents, councillors, local mps etc. You will get bad and good. The difference is, a shit estate agent will give me bad housing advice, a shit councillor will fail to get the local dog poo issue sorted. A bad policeman can put you in prison and you lose your job, home and your family. So I’m more relaxed about bad estate agents. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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