Davkaus Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 First Leadsom and now Eagle. It's amazing how reporting on things that MPs have publicly said or done is seen as some sort of hateful smear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted July 11, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 11, 2016 27 minutes ago, Davkaus said: First Leadsom and now Eagle. It's amazing how reporting on things that MPs have publicly said or done is seen as some sort of hateful smear. In which case, I hatefully smear Mr Cameron: (Apologies for going off-topic). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 (edited) As much as I don't agree with Corbyn on many things, we need a party that offers an alternative to the Conservatives. Austerity is not the only solution. In fact everything I have studied and researched steers me towards the opposite view. What we don't want is Tony Blair v2.0 or Tory Lite. I could never vote for anyone that voted to go to war in Iraq. Edited July 11, 2016 by omariqy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 2 hours ago, omariqy said: As much as I don't agree with Corbyn on many things, we need a party that offers an alternative to the Conservatives. Austerity is not the only solution. In fact everything I have studied and researched steers me towards the opposite view. You are absolutely spot on, but whoever leads the opposition has got to undo 6 years+ of indoctrination. Labour were spineless on the issue in the run up to the last GM and simply let the Tories (and sections of the media) walk all over them on it. I'd bet if you went and asked the 'average man on the street' who caused the last recession - they'd say labour. Massive task to convince Joe Public. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 11, 2016 Moderator Share Posted July 11, 2016 2 hours ago, omariqy said: What we don't want is ... Tory Lite. Just on that bit, I dunno. I don't want it, but in a way maybe it's what is needed, strategically. Going from "Tory Heavy" which we have now - certainly economically and in stuff like attitude to Unions, workers, climate change, the environment and so on, if not gay marriage - to "heavy left" is not going to happen, and certainly not in one go. So maybe an iteration back towards the left will then allow a further step left later on? While everything's up in turmoil that will only get worse, maybe people need to feel some level of certainty in the type of Gov't we have - which doesn't mean an extreme Tory or Labour, but something pretty middle of the road, where no one is isolated? And maybe the other thing is that a divisive Gov't is also the last thing we need, and both Corbyn and people like Leadsome really would have been massively divisive - they have a nub of fanatical supporters/zealots, but the wider nation thinks they're mad or useless (no, not Useless, useless) or both. We need a UK that isn't hostile to people or nations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 11, 2016 Author Share Posted July 11, 2016 Might be better if labour collapses and a new party forms. Might actually give us choices in future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 If Labour collapses it will be UKIP that picks up the pieces so careful what you wish for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 What do people know/think of Owen Smith? At this point I can't say I know too much about him but really hoping he can be a credible contender as Angela Eagles really isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 32 minutes ago, villaglint said: What do people know/think of Owen Smith? At this point I can't say I know too much about him but really hoping he can be a credible contender as Angela Eagles really isn't. I'm fairly interested in politics. His constituency is next to the one I live in, I'm about 15 / 16 miles from his office. I'd never heard of him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Is Corbyn really that far left? Surely he's centre left, the majority of his want-aways are right, and the Tories are far right? His ideology seems more pacifist than socialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dAVe80 Posted July 11, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted July 11, 2016 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dAVe80 Posted July 11, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted July 11, 2016 13 minutes ago, darrenm said: Is Corbyn really that far left? Surely he's centre left, the majority of his want-aways are right, and the Tories are far right? His ideology seems more pacifist than socialist. Apparently being anti austerity, anti war, anti zero hours contracts, pro social housing, pro living wage, pro free higher education, makes you a loony Trotsky Leftie. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 9 minutes ago, dAVe80 said: Apparently being anti austerity, anti war, anti zero hours contracts, pro social housing, pro living wage, pro free higher education, makes you a loony Trotsky Leftie. Exactly. When did being a humanist become so radical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 So someone posted on Angela Eagle's Facebook, asking for messages of support. 29k people replied Vote For Corbyn. Oops! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 3 hours ago, chrisp65 said: I'm fairly interested in politics. His constituency is next to the one I live in, I'm about 15 / 16 miles from his office. I'd never heard of him. Same. I take a genuine interest in Labour Party politics, and I've never heard of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 13 hours ago, villaglint said: If Labour collapses it will be UKIP that picks up the pieces so careful what you wish for. I dont think so, I think now Farage has left UKIP wont be as popular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 If Eagle is the best alternative they can come up with then Labour really are stuffed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) 11 hours ago, darrenm said: Is Corbyn really that far left? Surely he's centre left, the majority of his want-aways are right, and the Tories are far right? His ideology seems more pacifist than socialist. To me he just seems to enjoy defying authority. That the seems the basic for his idealogy, he's anti war, anti poverty, anti corruption - but whats he for ? If he wins the same scenario will play out over and over - it will just be squabble after squabble under the guise of 'purse socialism' - thats what he has always done. Owen Smith is comparable if you want a left wing leader. But Corbyn is an absolutely hopeless leader - he just wants to preach to those who already agree him - politics isn't that easy. Any Labour leader who wants to win an election has to get some Tory voters on board - thats the real world we live in . JC will never even try to do that Labour is in turmoil - having got this far - i would leave him off the ballot - which would encourage Owen Smith to stand - hopefully then people would wonder at the value of JC. Edited July 12, 2016 by hippo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 18 minutes ago, hippo said: To me he just seems to enjoy defying authority. That the seems the basic for his idealogy, he's anti war, anti poverty, anti corruption - but whats he for ? Affordable social housing. Free higher education. A living wage. Renationalising the railway. Making sure the NHS stays in public hands. Publically controlled energy providers. You know, unrealistic leftie nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 20 minutes ago, hippo said: To me he just seems to enjoy defying authority. That the seems the basic for his idealogy, he's anti war, anti poverty, anti corruption - but whats he for ? If he wins the same scenario will play out over and over - it will just be squabble after squabble under the guise of 'purse socialism' - thats what he has always done. Owen Smith is comparable if you want a left wing leader. But Corbyn is an absolutely hopeless leader - he just wants to preach to those who already agree him - politics isn't that easy. Any Labour leader who wants to win an election has to get some Tory voters on board - thats the real world we live in . JC will never even try to do that Labour is in turmoil - having got this far - i would leave him off the ballot - which would encourage Owen Smith to stand - hopefully then people would wonder at the value of JC. I'd be interested to know what evidence or anecdote you have of Owen Smith's leadership qualities? In what areas does he compare favourably to Corbyn? Not a trick question, just don't know much about him and his voting record looks a bit thin. He didn't manage to make it to the Commons yesterday for the Wales Bill which was debated. Though to be fair, only 2 of the 26 Welsh Labour MP's did. Labour is dying on its arse here, and it's got nothing to do with Corbyn's abilities, it predates his leadership. They've just given up even turning up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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