blandy Posted June 30, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: it was in direct response to Chris saying Labour should be calling for an election The opposition (whether Tory, Labour or other) almost has a duty to call for one under such circs. The Government party will almost always not want one. The opposition is less likely to call one if they think they'd lose it, and the Government is more likely to call one if they think they'd win it (unless they bottle it, a la Brown). That much is not so much hypocrisy as the way (almost) the system is set up to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 30, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Im fairly sure some people vote to get "Tory scum " out which isn't the same thing as voting for a local MP to represent you more voting for the one to not represent you Yep, I always vote for the person most likely to beat the Tory in this safe seat, or where that's not clear, then for the party closes to my views. I don't think I've ever voted for a person or thing that's won a referendum/election except for MEPs under PR. All my voting life my vote has been utterly wasted and pointless. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 17 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Also , this is the Labour thread so your complaints about Tories by your own " rulebook "should have gone into the Tory thread I wasn't making a 'complaint' about Tories: I was making a statement of fact about Tories and non-Tories (with which you agreed) in response to a point you brought up in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 30, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 30, 2016 I think we'll get an election pretty soon after the leadership is decided, not because we should, but as a way of extracting us (and the Tory party) from Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I do think Labour should stand to stay in the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 22 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said: The LibDems' role is to represent compromise and moderation and this isn't the time. The country is polarised and no party looks safe from alienating one half of the division or the other, by either going for a shit or bust Brexit, or a capitulating fudge. At some point in the future when the other parties have torn themselves apart, they may emerge as what seems like a sensible alternative. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 12 hours ago, CarewsEyebrowDesigner said: I do think Labour should stand to stay in the EU. Agree - but that at moment as well down the list of priorities. The roadmap for Labour IMO should be :- 1.Ditch Corbyn (easier said than done - I know) 2.Change the rules for electing leader (surley there should be a qualifying period before you can vote) 3.Then formulate centre left policies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 14 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: I think we'll get an election pretty soon after the leadership is decided, not because we should, but as a way of extracting us (and the Tory party) from Brexit. I'm not sure how likely that actually is, the fixed parliament act means they need two-thirds majority in the commons to call it and if Labour are still in turmoil I doubt there'd be appetite for that, plus the Tories are very unlikely to retain a majority IMO so they won't want to gamble it. Cameron and Johnson are the only two Tories the general public actually like. The only other way is if there is a no-confidence vote but I'm not sure what the circumstances have to be for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) 20 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Can't help feeling it's about now that an official opposition party should / could have it's boot on the throat of a tory party that's on the floor in self inflicted chaos. A leader in a sober suit, at the despatch box, asking one or two simple direct questions along the lines of what the merry **** is going on. Call an election you bunch of lying in fighting con men. But no. Let's see if we can get 50 people to like Angela Eagle on facebook. Absolute cretins. Yes, they see a tactical opportunity to oust Jez but have totally dropped ball since the real tactical opportunity is to destroy the Tory party, however they are doing a great job of destroying themselves. I had high(er) hopes for Corbyn, but he hasn't IMO done a good job as leader. However I really do not see any credible alternatives given the behaviour other key Labour figures, plus we still haven't had the necessary purge of all Blairites. Edited July 1, 2016 by Dr_Pangloss 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 34 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: I'm not sure how likely that actually is, the fixed parliament act means they need two-thirds majority in the commons to call it and if Labour are still in turmoil I doubt there'd be appetite for that, plus the Tories are very unlikely to retain a majority IMO so they won't want to gamble it. Cameron and Johnson are the only two Tories the general public actually like. The only other way is if there is a no-confidence vote but I'm not sure what the circumstances have to be for that. If Corbyn stays - The tories will win the next election easily whenever it is called. If they call an early election - then a heavy defeat for Labour may force Corbyn to resign - thus helping Labour regroup. As I see it - if the Tories wait they have around 8 years in power - If they go early they may only have 5. I am not a Tory, but if I was I wouldn't see much benefit in going for an early GE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 1 minute ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Yes, they see a tactical opportunity to oust Jez but have totally dropped ball since the real tactical opportunity is to destroy the Tory party, however they are doing a great job of destroying themselves. I had high(er) hopes for Corbyn, but he hasn't IMO done a good job as leader. However I really do not see any credible alternatives given the behaviour other key Labour figures, plus we still haven't had the necessary purge of all Blairites. Owen Smith - has to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 17 minutes ago, hippo said: Owen Smith - has to be Dan Jarvis - has to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_c Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, wazzap24 said: Dan Jarvis - has to be He is way too overqualified to lead a political party in this country. Edited July 1, 2016 by jon_c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 10 minutes ago, wazzap24 said: Dan Jarvis - has to be 4 minutes ago, jon_c said: He is way to overqualified to lead a political party in this country. He is one of a very few politicians who understand that when making a leap into the unknown, the importance of wearing a parachute. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 24 minutes ago, jon_c said: He is way too overqualified to lead a political party in this country. Is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_c Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 15 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Is he? He has a Bsc in International Politics, and an MA in Conflict, Security and Development. So opposed to two failed A levels, or that he used to be a journalist. I meant he literally had qualifications for the job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 1 hour ago, wazzap24 said: Dan Jarvis - has to be in an open contest yes - but up against Corbyn - I don't see him winning that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 5 hours ago, jon_c said: He has a Bsc in International Politics, and an MA in Conflict, Security and Development. So opposed to two failed A levels, or that he used to be a journalist. I meant he literally had qualifications for the job. Fair enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 6 hours ago, wazzap24 said: Dan Jarvis - has to be This is the Tories worst nightmare. Luckily for them Labour are acting like it's 1917, not approaching 2017. Rallying to the Red Banner isn't going to win Labour any elections - but it will allow UKIP to eat their lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) Okay, so Dan Jarvis has a good CV, we've established that. But what makes him 'the Tories worst nightmare'? I'm asking genuinely, this isn't a gotcha. But if he's just another Blairite* but with tours of duty it's not going to be enough to turn Labour around. It's the intellectual bankruptcy of the centre left that has led to Corbyn, and it's not a pattern limited to this country, but is observable all around western Europe. *I should stress I know very little about him. I thought he was a Blairite, but am I just dreaming that? Edited July 1, 2016 by HanoiVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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