The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[ml1dch]

7 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Labour racism rules

Has she?

Yes. She has carried out whatever remediative action that they required of her and has therefore been accepted back into the party.

If her offence was too great that she cannot stand for the party, she should and would be outside the party, as Corbyn is. 

Edited May 29 by ml1dch

[magnkarl]

1 minute ago, ml1dch said:

Yes. She has carried out whatever remediative action that they required of her and has therefore been accepted back into the party.

If her offence was too great that she cannot stand for the party, she should and would be outside the party, as Corbyn is. 

I agree that she should be outside of the party.

It's not her first incident. She has a very narrow definition of racism which only constitutes that of her own race, and has more than once said things that a Labour MP shouldn't be considering the labour racism rules.

[Davkaus]

I won't be sad to see the back of Abbott, but the way its been handled stinks. If she's allowed the whip back, she should be able to stand for reselection, assuming the backing of her constituency party.

It's also eyebrow raising that Starmer has been handwaving it away as "an ongoing disciplinary matter" when he must have known full well that it concluded in December.

[ml1dch]

2 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

I agree that she should be outside of the party.

It's not her first incident. She has a very narrow definition of racism which only constitutes that of her own race, and has more than once said things that a Labour MP shouldn't be considering the labour racism rules.

I know. I'm not new to politics.

I don't particularly like her or agree with her, I'm just not a big fan of double-standards whether the person involved shares my politics or not.

[bickster]

32 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

She has followed the rules of the party, hence she now holds the Labour whip again.

There is talk that she's now under investigation for liking a tweet by Corbyn's wife when she announced that Corbyn would be standing against Labour

[bickster]

The amusing thing about all of this is that Abbott and all the journalists from the likes of the Times pushing the story as an attack are doing Starmer's work for him

He's changed the Labour Party and they seem intent on proving it  

[ml1dch]

6 minutes ago, bickster said:

There is talk that she's now under investigation for liking a tweet by Corbyn's wife when she announced that Corbyn would be standing against Labour

Well, that's a pretty daft thing to do if what you really want is to stand in the next election. 

[magnkarl]

I stand corrected, you don't need to give DA 'time', she already shot herself in the foot before the news broke. Jesus this lady.

[Davkaus]

Not surprising though is it? There's that saying that it's better to have someone inside pissing out than outside pissing in, but Abbott has spent years in the tent pissing all over everything.

[juanpabloangel18]

15 hours ago, ml1dch said:

Diane Abbott out apparently, and not allowed to stand for Labour.

Back in, as a gesture, but not allowed to stand. And seems pretty clear KS has lied repeatedly to the media about the process. 

Very grimy stuff when considered against the likes of Neil Coyle, Stephen Reid, Barry Sherman, all of whom currently have the labour whip and said (IMO) worse things than DA.

[juanpabloangel18]

34 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

She has a very narrow definition of racism which only constitutes that of her own race

Sorry but this is ill informed right wing  bollocks

[magnkarl]

6 minutes ago, juanpabloangel18 said:

Sorry but this is ill informed right wing  bollocks

Is it? From the looks of her opinions and speeches, it really isn't. I know it hurts when all the leftist headliners are found out to be as dumb as their counterparts on the right, but she has a record of saying and doing really dumb and racist things.

I mean, I guess you could claim that the Roma and Sinti are facing redhead bullying rather than racism, no credible research or statistics will corroborate your claim. Or you can claim that everyone of paler complexion is the same race, like she did, and you still won't find anyone credible to support your claim.

Edited May 29 by magnkarl

[juanpabloangel18]

2 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Is it? From the looks of her opinions and speeches, it really isn't. I know it hurts when all the leftist headliners are found out to be as dumb as their counterparts on the right, but she has a record of saying and doing really dumb and racist things.

Yes. It is.

Her voting record is anti racist. I can quickly google dozens of speeches she's made warning against islamophobia and antisemitism throughout her career.

Can you find me evidence of her "racism" that isn't a link to the Daily Telegraph or Jewish Chronicle?

(That she is "dumb" is an entirely different argument, and if you like, we can get into the double standards applied to different types of people in public life.)

[magnkarl]

16 minutes ago, juanpabloangel18 said:

Yes. It is.

Her voting record is anti racist. I can quickly google dozens of speeches she's made warning against islamophobia and antisemitism throughout her career.

Can you find me evidence of her "racism" that isn't a link to the Daily Telegraph or Jewish Chronicle?

(That she is "dumb" is an entirely different argument, and if you like, we can get into the double standards applied to different types of people in public life.)

Is her 'first draft' letter not enough?

It's uniquely racist to hold your race above others. She diminished the suffering of Roma, Travellers and Jews in one fell swoop by comparing their suffering to being bullied for your hair colour, and by then pointing out that her race is the ultimate victim of racism. By also stating that these three minorities are just 'white' she essentially said that they have no racial identity. I presume it's also okay to say that to people who are BAME but with slightly paler complexions than her? 

It's racist, and you could even go as far as saying that it's denying minorities their racial heritage.

Here are some other DA statements:

The Guardian Profile: Diane Abbott

Quote

In the past, the grammar-school and Cambridge-educated MP, has spoken in defence of women's rights, black sections and working class causes. A frequent denouncer of racial discrimination, she stood accused of it when she complained in 1996 that the 'blonde, blue-eyed Finnish girls' in her local hospital in east London were unsuitable as nurses because they had 'never met a black person before'.

BBC

Quote

She said she had not meant to generalise when she wrote, external: ''White people love playing 'divide & rule'".

Change the colour of the statements, see how you feel. For being an ant-racist, she sure does seem to have form on saying racist things.

Edited May 29 by magnkarl

[Leeroy]

Whether it's right or wrong what Labour have done, I think it's pretty obvious it will be good for them in terms of the election.

 

Abbott has made some horrendous gaffes in previous elections (remember that interview with Nick Ferrari 7 years ago regarding funding of the police) and some of her views will turn off voters.

 

What she said last year was quite clearly wrong, completely ignoring the history of the Holocaust where Jews and Romani (i.e. travellers) were murdered in their millions. Of course she offered an apology and I think she was more careless than actually being racist, but it was still offensive nonetheless and that type of fuzzy thinking can cost Labour votes.

 

If she wants to run she can do so as an Independent like her ex-lover Jeremy Corbyn is doing, I don't see what all the fuss is about. Labour is taking tough decisions to win. 

[chrisp65]

I don’t remember the specifics, I haven’t kept a log, but she has also suggested Jamaican or West Indians mums were better mums than other mums. Pretty soft core stuff, but it just adds to a body of either refusing to be educated on race, or pandering to a demographic in her constituency, or something.

If it was someone in another party making similar gaffes over an extended period of time I think many of the people defending Abbott would be more critical.

Though she clearly isn’t the existential threat some would have you believe.

I’d have her in my party before Natalie Elphicke. I’d be happier praising Abbott than Thatcher.

 

[sidcow]

Have they actually said WHY she can't stand?  It could just be because she's not considered good enough. We've been mocking the Tories for lack of talent for years.

Edited May 29 by sidcow

[juanpabloangel18]

17 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Is her 'first draft' letter not enough?

It's uniquely racist to hold your race above others. She diminished the suffering of Roma, Travellers and Jews in one fell swoop by comparing their suffering to being bullied for your hair colour, and by then pointing out that her race is the ultimate victim of racism. By also stating that these three minorities are just 'white' she essentially said that they have no racial identity. I presume it's also okay to say that to people who are BAME but with slightly paler complexions than her? 

It's racist, and you could even go as far as saying that it's denying minorities their racial heritage.

Here are some other DA statements:

The Guardian Profile: Diane Abbott

BBC

Change the colour of the statements, see how you feel.

The statements are stupid and poorly worded so I've no interest in defending them, and you've applied your own understanding of her intentions. My more generous interpretation of what she said in the draft letter is that when you're dark skinned in a white majority country you face a different kind of prejudice. Is that really controversial? 

Her swiftly issued apology said: 

Quote

Racism takes many forms and it is completely undeniable that Jewish people have suffered its monstrous effects, as have Irish people, Travellers and many others

Her record as an MP is that she has consistently voted to advance the causes of under privileged people regardless of race. 

I of course agree that black people can be racist I just don't agree that she is - she's clumsy 

[magnkarl]

15 minutes ago, juanpabloangel18 said:

The statements are stupid and poorly worded so I've no interest in defending them, and you've applied your own understanding of her intentions. My more generous interpretation of what she said in the draft letter is that when you're dark skinned in a white majority country you face a different kind of prejudice. Is that really controversial? 

Her swiftly issued apology said: 

Her record as an MP is that she has consistently voted to advance the causes of under privileged people regardless of race. 

I of course agree that black people can be racist I just don't agree that she is - she's clumsy 

How many times is she 'clumsy' before you'll consider it a form or tendency?  She specifically picked out three of the worst oppressed historical minorities in Europe to diminish their experience, so she could highlight her own. It's not my understanding, it's what the text says. How do you in any way word that differently for it not to be diminishing the racism experienced by Roma, Sinti, Jews and Travelers? 

Let's say some posh tory said 5 racist things, would you defend him as clumsy?

I think Diane Abbott is a selective anti-racist campaigner who, when she had some drinks, couldn't really stop herself from airing her politically incorrect views. It's a bit like when Mr. Alotment 'happened' upon that wreath laying ceremony for the Black September terrorists while popping over to Tunisia for a conference. It's a tendency.

Edited May 29 by magnkarl

[juanpabloangel18]

30 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

I think Diane Abbott is a selective anti-racist campaigner

From the Jewish Chronicle: 

Quote

 

The letter came as a particular shock, Rabbi Gluck continued, because of Abbott’s previous commitment to her heavily Charedi constituency.

“Diane has worked passionately for the community,” he said. 

“She has helped us with shechita, with immigration issues, with the Shomrim.

“She’s done a tremendous amount for the black community, the Jewish community and her constituents at large. 

 

Jewish Voice for Labour:

Quote

 

The wording of Diane’s letter was unfortunate in that it appeared to compare forms of racism. Diane has rightly apologised for this.

All racism is abhorrent – and she has always fought against it.