The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[chrisp65]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

The Tories are managing to find about £6m every single day to house migrants rather than actually process the applications. 

Magic selective tory seeking money tree.

[magnkarl]

2 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

No.

It cannot be that only one group is allowed to be the sole self appointed arbiter.

People have been accused of anti semitism, it’s a handy shut up for people that won’t shut up. If its going to be discussed, then all in the discussion get to discuss it.

That people now reference this like some meme perhaps illustrates how it was abused and diluted by the self appointed AS police.

I’m not sure about you Chris, but I don’t find it in any way a ‘discussion’ when someone mentions a ‘research trip’ to a place where my family lost 7 members to a fascist regime as some sort of fun remark to try to in a convoluted way describe all disciplinary measures within the Labour Party as an AS witch hunt, especially when the people in question are nowhere near Corbyn or Starmer.

It’s a an Abbott-y way of trying to hint at everyone being removed from labour even if they’re convinced sex criminals simply because of a lie about AS, and frankly people can do a lot better. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by magnkarl

[chrisp65]

22 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

I’m not sure about you Chris, but I don’t find it in any way a ‘discussion’ when someone mentions a ‘research trip’ to a place where my family lost 7 members to a fascist regime as some sort of fun remark to try to in a convoluted way describe all disciplinary measures within the Labour Party as an AS witch hunt, especially when the people in question are nowhere near Corbyn or Starmer.

It’s a an Abbott-y way of trying to hint at everyone being removed from labour even if they’re convinced sex criminals simply because of a lie about AS, and frankly people can do a lot better. 

The accusations and mud slinging go both ways and yes it absolutely cheapens an exceptionally serious subject.

It doesn’t help anybody’s case though, to give an example of one insensitive thing by describing it as Abbotty. 

There cannot be a protected status for some accusations by some people.

I genuinely hope this farce that has been created and fanned can be put behind us at some point, but it needs all sides to play fair.

 

[magnkarl]

29 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

The accusations and mud slinging go both ways and yes it absolutely cheapens an exceptionally serious subject.

It doesn’t help anybody’s case though, to give an example of one insensitive thing by describing it as Abbotty. 

There cannot be a protected status for some accusations by some people.

I genuinely hope this farce that has been created and fanned can be put behind us at some point, but it needs all sides to play fair.

 

Sadly history shows that one cannot play fair when it comes to racism, it needs confrontation, just look at the eerie silence to said remark aside from one honourable mention. Did you or anyone speak up when someone used a concentration camp as a cheap point about someone who’s not accused of AS?

Very few people give a toss until someone’s in their face (see George Floyd incident and the protests stemming from it or what labour’s gone through under JC). One side is struggling with basic decency and separating Israel from Jews while the other is pointing out that it’s not cool. It isn’t even close to like for like.

Not confronting racism is essentially allowing it to happen. I’m sure the groups who are constantly being harassed or bullied because of their race would love if they didn’t have to carry the torch by and large alone.

Edited September 1, 2023 by magnkarl

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, magnkarl said:

just look at the eerie silence to said remark. Did you or anyone speak up

What are you accusing me of here exactly?

I’ve just said people cheapen an incredibly serious thing by chucking accusations around, and you come out with that crass shit.

Make yourself comfy up on that moral high ground lad.

 

[magnkarl]

6 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

What are you accusing me of here exactly?

I’ve just said people cheapen an incredibly serious thing by chucking accusations around, and you come out with that crass shit.

Make yourself comfy up on that moral high ground lad.

 

No one’s accusing you of anything, all I’m saying is that you’ve chosen to respond to my post rather than the person who’s accusing Labour of using AS to remove a MP who’s nowhere near any of the factionalism by stating that someone’s gone on a field trip to study one of the epicentres of the shoah.

You chose to call out the reaction to the statement, not the statement.

Edited September 1, 2023 by magnkarl

[chrisp65]

8 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

No one’s accusing you of anything, all I’m saying is that you’ve chosen to respond to my post rather than the person who’s accusing Labour of using AS to remove a MP who’s nowhere near any of the factionalism by stating that someone’s gone on a field trip to study one of the epicentres of the shoah.

You chose to call out the reaction to the statement, not the statement.

I can see how I give some posts more of a pass / less of a crit than others. You mustn’t take lack of engagement as endorsement. People write all manner of stuff on here and luckily for all of us, I’m not a moderator and its not me that rocks up when the report function is used.

What I’m calling out is the cheapening weaponisation by both sides of the whole antisemitism ‘discussion’. It gets to playground levels of ‘you started it’.

For clarity, anti semitism is disgusting. As is false accusation of anti semitism. 

[Jareth]

Erm, AS was a huge issue under Corbyn, yet Starmer takes over and it is solved. Why are we still discussing AS in a Labour thread? It's been brought up consistently even without any obvious link to Labour - i.e. a Guardian cartoonist. Obviously those who pinned AS on all Labour members did such a good job that it is now synonymous with the Labour brand (you reap what you sow) - but seriously, whatever happened, it is not an issue now for Labour right?  

[Chindie]

2 hours ago, Jareth said:

Erm, AS was a huge issue under Corbyn, yet Starmer takes over and it is solved. Why are we still discussing AS in a Labour thread? It's been brought up consistently even without any obvious link to Labour - i.e. a Guardian cartoonist. Obviously those who pinned AS on all Labour members did such a good job that it is now synonymous with the Labour brand (you reap what you sow) - but seriously, whatever happened, it is not an issue now for Labour right?  

It stopped being stabbed into the Labour party the second Starmer took over and started to purge the left of the party. Almost like it was a nice tool.

It's brought up as a reminder that the Labour party didn't stop being institutionally racist when a different faction took over, and that when you unleash and accuse of such heinous shit, that doesn't wash off.

Or perhaps it's raised to point out the absolutely disgusting cynical nature of the accusation.

[blandy]

17 hours ago, Chindie said:

the Labour party didn't stop being institutionally racist when a different faction took over

 

17 hours ago, Chindie said:

the absolutely disgusting cynical nature of the accusation.

Those two statements directly contradict each other. 

[Chindie]

12 minutes ago, blandy said:

 

Those two statements directly contradict each other. 

Yes.

They aren't meant to both be true.

Hence 'or perhaps'.

I'm letting both factions have a view of 'true'. I'm a very broad church.

[magnkarl]

On 01/09/2023 at 22:23, chrisp65 said:

I can see how I give some posts more of a pass / less of a crit than others. You mustn’t take lack of engagement as endorsement. People write all manner of stuff on here and luckily for all of us, I’m not a moderator and its not me that rocks up when the report function is used.

What I’m calling out is the cheapening weaponisation by both sides of the whole antisemitism ‘discussion’. It gets to playground levels of ‘you started it’.

For clarity, anti semitism is disgusting. As is false accusation of anti semitism. 

I understand, and for my part I get a bit too worked up sometimes. I guess after a long life I've ran out of patience for people who use a place like Auschwitz for a cheap point or 'fun' remark. I don't think said people would do the same with Grenfell Tower, Katyn or Utøya.

Essentially I think I'm done with replying kindly to the hate, and sometimes that spills over to people that don't deserve it. Sorry mate.

[OutByEaster?]

So is that a promotion or a demotion for Angela Raynor?

It sounds like a big important job, but I'm guessing she's being steered farther away from Sir Kier's inner circle - I really can't tell.

 

[bickster]

5 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

So is that a promotion or a demotion for Angela Raynor?

It sounds like a big important job, but I'm guessing she's being steered farther away from Sir Kier's inner circle - I really can't tell.

 

She was Shadow Minister for Eff All before this

(As in grand title but in the bigger scheme of things literally shite all)

[OutByEaster?]

Just now, bickster said:

She was Shadow Minister for Eff All before this

Is she still shadow minister for eff all now? Albeit a different eff all?

[bickster]

Just now, OutByEaster? said:

Is she still shadow minister for eff all now? Albeit a different eff all?

Well no, I don't think so. I think it's a position she can use to attack the Tories from, previously not so much. I do think it's a role she's suited to

[ml1dch]

35 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

So is that a promotion or a demotion for Angela Raynor?

It sounds like a big important job, but I'm guessing she's being steered farther away from Sir Kier's inner circle - I really can't tell.

Neither really. It's putting her somewhere where she'd probably be more useful and in a position to do what she is good at. This definitely doesn't diminish her position at all.

Although I'd argue whether it's a "big important job". Shadowing a department that was only created to justify Boris Johnson's election lies. But now that it exists, having a bolshy northener who the press like talking to, shouting about how the Tories are letting everyone down seems like a good use of her time. 

The only one who really loses out in all this is Lisa Nandy. Which is a shame, as she seems like a decent sort. But for whatever reason, she doesn't seem to cut through like Raynor does. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by ml1dch

[ml1dch]

Incidentally, while I don't think a change to the Shadow Work & Pensions Secretary is going to lead the News at Ten, it seems like a really silly decision to take media focus away from "schools are falling down and it's the Prime Minister's fault" on the day that the kids go back.

Edited September 4, 2023 by ml1dch

[blandy]

47 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Incidentally, while I don't think a change to the Shadow Work & Pensions Secretary is going to lead the News at Ten, it seems like a really silly decision to take media focus away from "schools are falling down and it's the Prime Minister's fault" on the day that the kids go back.

Not really in Labour’s hands. Whatever day they do a reshuffle there will be some Tory crisis. Today’s is because a civil servant is serving their revenge cold. 

[Demitri_C]

Wow birminghams labour run council has gone bankrupt 

What a **** shit show. Seems there are allegations being thrown about discrimination, pay etc.

Not a good look for the city or labour. Bet starmer is furious