The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[chrisp65]

12 hours ago, blandy said:

Thing is, there are essentially 3 types of MPs. Ones on a huge ambition chase, ones who became MPs because they actually do believe in stuff and making things better, and then there’s the time serving dullards. Starmer is in the second group, as was Corbyn as was Milliband as was Gordon Brown as was May. Cameron, Johnson, Truss in the first group. The ones with personality and believing in something don’t seem to get on so well for some reason, they seem to do really good work, but stay mostly out of the higher positions (there are Exceptions).

Starmer’s problem isn’t IMO that he only believes in competent admin, it’s that people haven’t seen what he believes in, so assume he doesn’t believe in much at all.

Why haven’t they seen what he believes in? Has he chosen not to disclose it, or has he failed to get the media to convey it?

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, ml1dch said:

Sure, in an ideal world they'd do all the good things.

But apolitical, competent admin is still a massive improvement on anything we've seen in a decade and half, and probably before that.

I'd also take it over incompetent idealism.

Baby steps. 

I suggest that’s the absolute target market of Starmerism. That might even be his actual pitch.

In a two party FPTP system, with the opposition in suicide mode, it’s an adequate tactic.

 

[Chindie]

10 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

 

Why haven’t they seen what he believes in? Has he chosen not to disclose it, or has he failed to get the media to convey it?

 

 

 

 

2 choices.

He believes in whatever will get him elected. If there was a sudden turn in popularity for making paedos eat their own genitals, Starmer will be for it (if you wish to be particularly kind, be for it eventually).

Or

He believes in something but what he believes in is either estimated to be unelectable or it's been decided that believing in anything is less conducive to winning an election than plausibly denying belief in anything.

Neither are exactly resounding endorsements.

As it is, Labour seem to believe that fundamentally the Tories position on everything is fine, they're just incompetent. Which isn't good. And fundamentally they're all power hungry scum sucking evil words removed.

[blandy]

12 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

has he failed to get the media to convey it?

This, pretty much. I mean what do we know about the LD leader beliefs or even who that is? Point being that the meeja doesn’t much bother with anyone other than the PM of the day. Notably they’re just starting to point a glimmer of focus on Starmer, so we might get to see a bit more, even in the Tory press (which will still slag him off, of course).

[Chindie]

 

[Chindie]

**** hell.

This country is powerfully badly served by it's elected representatives. The standard is **** tragic. The state of this. 

And this is what is apparently going to lead us to the mildly less shabby decrepit dawn.

Give me the washing line.

[blandy]

22 minutes ago, Chindie said:

**** hell.

This country is powerfully badly served by it's elected representatives. The standard is **** tragic. The state of this. 

And this is what is apparently going to lead us to the mildly less shabby decrepit dawn.

Give me the washing line.

Strategically it’s absolutely spot on. There is no general election imminent. Strategically Labour, to win, needs to hammer home that if it gets elected it will not make the economy even worse. And they need to maintain that message for the next year or so until there is an election. It’s the one area where perceived wisdom is that Labour is profligate with money and taxes. That has to change for them to win in an ongoing financial clusterpork caused by a combo of Brexit, war, pandemic and Tory recklessness.

Right now, people are sick of the tories, completely. Right now people are fearful of things getting even worse for their finances. People are also desperate for hope of a better government.

Your post reflects that second part, the hope for better, but frankly whatever Labour promises now is irrelevant strategically, because in a year’s time the Country will look different. There might be a worse economy or a better one for them to inherit. The NHS might be more broken or less broken. Inflation may be higher or lower. Ukraine Russia might be ongoing or there might be some sort of peace. All kinds will be different. Strategically, promising stuff now to tick a box with left wing folk is utterly futile and damaging. It’ll just get loads of “how much will it cost…how will you pay for it…what will you cut to afford it…which taxes will you raise to pay for it… you can’t be trusted on the economy can you?” type of media questions.  And for what reward?  None at all. There’s no votes available right now. There’s no election to be won right now. They have a big poll lead.

So yes, it’s depressing that this is how it is. The tories have **** the country big time. It’s so bad that there’s no magic fix. There’s no magic Grandpa wand. It’s going to take a decade to make major changes. Extra child benefit for people with 3+ kids is well down the list of “most important things to prioritise”.

They’re a bit too timid and scared of their own shadow for my liking, but the strategy is working.

[Chindie]

More fool you when we get more of the same in a different tie. If they deliver on their useless current poll lead.

Magic grandpa wand. **** me.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, blandy said:

Strategically it’s absolutely spot on. There is no general election imminent. Strategically Labour, to win, needs to hammer home that if it gets elected it will not make the economy even worse. And they need to maintain that message for the next year or so until there is an election. It’s the one area where perceived wisdom is that Labour is profligate with money and taxes. That has to change for them to win in an ongoing financial clusterpork caused by a combo of Brexit, war, pandemic and Tory recklessness.

Right now, people are sick of the tories, completely. Right now people are fearful of things getting even worse for their finances. People are also desperate for hope of a better government.

Your post reflects that second part, the hope for better, but frankly whatever Labour promises now is irrelevant strategically, because in a year’s time the Country will look different. There might be a worse economy or a better one for them to inherit. The NHS might be more broken or less broken. Inflation may be higher or lower. Ukraine Russia might be ongoing or there might be some sort of peace. All kinds will be different. Strategically, promising stuff now to tick a box with left wing folk is utterly futile and damaging. It’ll just get loads of “how much will it cost…how will you pay for it…what will you cut to afford it…which taxes will you raise to pay for it… you can’t be trusted on the economy can you?” type of media questions.  And for what reward?  None at all. There’s no votes available right now. There’s no election to be won right now. They have a big poll lead.

So yes, it’s depressing that this is how it is. The tories have **** the country big time. It’s so bad that there’s no magic fix. There’s no magic Grandpa wand. It’s going to take a decade to make major changes. Extra child benefit for people with 3+ kids is well down the list of “most important things to prioritise”.

They’re a bit too timid and scared of their own shadow for my liking, but the strategy is working.

Absolutely correct. Even if this leaves a bad taste in my mouth, Labour are doing the right thing. 

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

Strategically it’s absolutely spot on. There is no general election imminent. Strategically Labour, to win, needs to hammer home that if it gets elected it will not make the economy even worse. And they need to maintain that message for the next year or so until there is an election. It’s the one area where perceived wisdom is that Labour is profligate with money and taxes. That has to change for them to win in an ongoing financial clusterpork caused by a combo of Brexit, war, pandemic and Tory recklessness.

Right now, people are sick of the tories, completely. Right now people are fearful of things getting even worse for their finances. People are also desperate for hope of a better government.

Your post reflects that second part, the hope for better, but frankly whatever Labour promises now is irrelevant strategically, because in a year’s time the Country will look different. There might be a worse economy or a better one for them to inherit. The NHS might be more broken or less broken. Inflation may be higher or lower. Ukraine Russia might be ongoing or there might be some sort of peace. All kinds will be different. Strategically, promising stuff now to tick a box with left wing folk is utterly futile and damaging. It’ll just get loads of “how much will it cost…how will you pay for it…what will you cut to afford it…which taxes will you raise to pay for it… you can’t be trusted on the economy can you?” type of media questions.  And for what reward?  None at all. There’s no votes available right now. There’s no election to be won right now. They have a big poll lead.

So yes, it’s depressing that this is how it is. The tories have **** the country big time. It’s so bad that there’s no magic fix. There’s no magic Grandpa wand. It’s going to take a decade to make major changes. Extra child benefit for people with 3+ kids is well down the list of “most important things to prioritise”.

They’re a bit too timid and scared of their own shadow for my liking, but the strategy is working.

The thing is pete it doesnt inspire voters. It just makes you not want to bother.

She has hinted at unpopular decisions. Sow hat we getting? More cuts tax increases.?

There was no money when labour left it for the tories and now we being fed this same shit again before they havw even come into power. Doesnt inspire us much unfortunately 

I dont think even decades goibg to save this country.  Its ****

[blandy]

1 hour ago, Chindie said:

More fool you when we get more of the same in a different tie. If they deliver on their useless current poll lead.

Magic grandpa wand. **** me.

It’s nothing to do with me. My vote is meaningless. It’s never ever made any tiny difference to an election outcome. No one I’ve ever voted for in a GE has won where I’ve lived. I tend to vote for who is least unlikely to beat the Tory, or when it’s been no-one, I’ve voted Green, if they stood. “More fool me” - no. I’m commenting on Labour’s strategy, not my personal views on what policies I want or like or don’t like.

Magic Grandpa wand is what Labour tried last time. They got hammered. The time before that they lost to Theresa May who self destructed during the campaign and she still won.  This time, their strategy is at least logical given the circumstances.

[blandy]

6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

The thing is pete it doesnt inspire voters. It just makes you not want to bother.

She has hinted at unpopular decisions. Sow hat we getting? More cuts tax increases.?

There was no money when labour left it for the tories and now we being fed this same shit again before they havw even come into power. Doesnt inspire us much unfortunately 

I dont think even decades goibg to save this country.  Its ****

There aren’t any voters. There’s no General election. There won’t be one for a year, Dem. Yes, it’s uninspiring, I completely agree. But that’s utterly besides the point at this stage of the parliamentary cycle.

There 3 or 5 is it? By elections this week and in the next month, I think.  Mostly in safe Tory seats. In these 5 seats, the LDs and Labour will be trying to win them with specific local campaigns and a general “anyone but the tories” type thing. I guarantee that “will you get rid of the 2 child limit for child benefits” will not be a deciding factor in any of those local campaigns.  It’ll be inflation, energy costs, immigration, Tory sleaze and corruption, Truss wrecking people’s mortgages, Dodgy honours lists, ULEZ.…”

[bickster]

1 hour ago, Chindie said:

Magic grandpa wand. **** me.

I think you have two wishes left  

[Chindie]

26 minutes ago, blandy said:

Magic Grandpa wand is what Labour tried last time. They got hammered. The time before that they lost to Theresa May who self destructed during the campaign and she still won.  This time, their strategy is at least logical given the circumstances.

Everyone and his dog knows there's more to that election than the public 'rejecting' a 'spending' manifesto, and portraying it as otherwise to support a Red Tory agenda is deeply disingenuous.

I'd just quite like an honest and hopeful Labour party. I'm not going to clap along a party whose position currently is 'this 13 year long shitshow? Well, it's only a shitshow because this running it are incompetent'. Who undermined their own party. Who are now running a purge that just a few years ago they clutched their pearls over and shouted bloody murder about when another faction of the party did less than a smidgen of the same kind of shit. **** scum.

And I don't, and never have, vote for anyone.

[Chindie]

11 minutes ago, bickster said:

I think you have two wishes left  

It'll be clean when I give it back, a better condition than when you gave it to me.

[ml1dch]

25 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

There was no money when labour left it for the tories

I guess it's easy to see why Greg Hands still keeps going on that Liam Byrne letter thirteen years later, given some people still don't realise that it was a joke.

[Seat68]

10 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

I guess it's easy to see why Greg Hands still keeps going on that Liam Byrne letter thirteen years later, given some people still don't realise that it was a joke.

Thats who the tories want though, they want people who will look at Greg Hands tweets and accept it at face value, they want the people who are not prepared to fact check, have critical thought or know its a joke, they want them, as they are the ones that will say, they are as bad as each other and they might as well put their X next to a tory. 

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

There aren’t any voters. There’s no General election. There won’t be one for a year, Dem. Yes, it’s uninspiring, I completely agree. But that’s utterly besides the point at this stage of the parliamentary cycle.

There 3 or 5 is it? By elections this week and in the next month, I think.  Mostly in safe Tory seats. In these 5 seats, the LDs and Labour will be trying to win them with specific local campaigns and a general “anyone but the tories” type thing. I guarantee that “will you get rid of the 2 child limit for child benefits” will not be a deciding factor in any of those local campaigns.  It’ll be inflation, energy costs, immigration, Tory sleaze and corruption, Truss wrecking people’s mortgages, Dodgy honours lists, ULEZ.…”

Is there such a thing as a safe tory seat these days ?

Yeah i agree with a lot of that pete but my concern is are we get a tory mark 2? As im not really inspired.  I dont care of hw is boring dull like is veing potrayed however im just worried about the future. Cant see how its going to get much better

 

[Demitri_C]

52 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

I guess it's easy to see why Greg Hands still keeps going on that Liam Byrne letter thirteen years later, given some people still don't realise that it was a joke.

Yeah im sure if a tory left that for a labour government we would find it hilarous here.

"Haha"

A lame and stupid joke that the tories can use against them

Edited July 18, 2023 by Demitri_C

[blandy]

18 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

im just worried about the future. Cant see how its going to get much better

I'm hoping Dem that things will get better with the Tories out, because 1. The tories will be out, so it'll be better and 2. Labour will be less scared of its own shadow if/when they get their hands on the actual tiller. It looks like, IMO, they've got a sound plan as to how to win, or the tactics to get to win. That's not the same thing as me agreeing with them in terms of what they say or don't say they'll do. They need to come up with that part in about 4 - 6 months time. But now isn't the right time, strategically, IMO, because the press will just slag them off, the coverage will be detrimental, whereas closer to an election there has to be fair(er) TV and radio coverage of all the parties and they will get a better hearing.