bickster Posted July 2, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 2, 2023 49 minutes ago, magnkarl said: I'm not a fan of the factionalism but I do sometimes wonder if politicians ever actually considered reading the rule book. In Neal's case, he didn’t even need to read it, he pretty much did exactly what Alistair Campbell did and got expelled for. An awful lot of the people complaining about a witch hunt now were rather happy when Campbell broke the same rule and was expelled Also quite amusing that John Cruddas is a member of Labour Friends of Israel given that a certain faction have jumped on his bandwagon here The talk of pluralism is as I've already said, utter nonsense in terms of the party's rule book, the pluralism of the Labour Party was internal not external. Also the rule about not supporting other parties has been in the rule book for a very very long time, maybe even since day one, when you know, Labour was, were told, very much more left wing. And I'm saying this as someone who wants people like Neal in the Labour Party because he's a supporter of PR and I won’t vote Labour until they are but he still clearly broke the Labour Party's rules. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 3, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 3, 2023 On 01/07/2023 at 11:11, chrisp65 said: Anybody know how that’s going? It’s one of those “I wouldn’t start from here” things, I think. By that I mean that it should not have been privatised way back, ideally, but since it has been the options to fix the bad consequences of that are not straightforward. Renationalisation is not necessarily the best fix. There are adverse consequences that are like little financial land mines laid when water was privatised. If Labour looks at the current problems with water and deals with them, rather than “oh just nationalise everything, it’ll magically fix the problems” that would be a step forward. jobbies in the rivers and sea farm sludge in the rivers crumbling pipes, sewers and reservoirs population growth and climate change driven demand v supply issues Excess profiteering etc…. Those are all fixable via a combo of restoring and increasing environment agency enforcement and staff levels, via actually prosecuting the polluters and the punishments being properly punitive, including restoration costs and obligations. Via inspection, auditing and checks on progress of Wa Co. maintenance and repair plans, via making social responsibility stuff a mandatory requirement and via taxing and wotnot. All that stuff basically has to happen whoever owns the water companies, right? And if publicly owned, it’s still gonna be private contractors digging up the road to fix a pipe, or brought in to reinforce a reservoir dam wall and all the rest of it. Nationalisation won’t fix any of the structural problems apart from, eventually, excessive profiteering and money going out to shareholders instead of being reinvested in the infrastructure or whatever. That’s fixable without nationalising it, and the flip side is nationalising it has huge consequences in other directions. I posted about all that in this thread before the last election, so not gonna repeat. The basic essence is it’s not so easy to put the genie back in the bottle and given the absolute state of everything, fixing it ought to come before “who owns what and which is the purer ideological ownership model?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted July 3, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 3, 2023 Is Ed Milliband too radical for Labour nowadays? He's in Sir Kier's little black book too by the look of things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 3, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 3, 2023 8 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Is Ed Milliband too radical for Labour nowadays? He's in Sir Kier's little black book too by the look of things. He did once eat a bacon sandwich funny. Definite anti-Semite, self hating threat to the Jewish people behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 3, 2023 Author Share Posted July 3, 2023 3 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Is Ed Milliband too radical for Labour nowadays? He's in Sir Kier's little black book too by the look of things. Ergh milliband waa a awful labour leader. I seriously do think david would have done bettee than ed did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 3, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 3, 2023 What has Milliband done? Can't find a single story from the last 24 hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted July 4, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 4, 2023 10 hours ago, bickster said: What has Milliband done? Can't find a single story from the last 24 hours There was a story in a couple of the rags suggesting he's being nudged out in a shuffle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 Honestly think they've outsourced these tweets to AI 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 4, 2023 Author Share Posted July 4, 2023 29 minutes ago, Jareth said: Honestly think they've outsourced these tweets to AI Communities? Great so we can sack our councillors when they ignore our requests? Im in ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 10 hours ago, bickster said: What has Milliband done? Can't find a single story from the last 24 hours Likely nothing, but as with the looney left they're seeing a purge in everything, reshuffle, clear breaking of the rules by pro-Israel MP's which lead to suspension, you name it. It's becoming a bit ridiculous tbh, and the reactions as you can see in this thread walk a very fine line close to once again being horribly stupid. The best bit is that once reviled MPs like Cruddas is now a hero of the same people that would shout ZIOOOO at him all night long a few years ago just because Labour have taken action against him promoting another party. Bunker syndrome at its best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 4, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 4, 2023 12 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Great so we can sack our councillors when they ignore our requests? We live in a democracy not a Dem-ocracy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 4, 2023 Author Share Posted July 4, 2023 11 minutes ago, bickster said: We live in a democracy not a Dem-ocracy How long you had that one up your sleeve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 4, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 4, 2023 Just now, Demitri_C said: How long you had that one up your sleeve Unlike the Russians, I have plenty more ammo in the stockpiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 4, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 4, 2023 4 hours ago, Jareth said: Honestly think they've outsourced these tweets to AI If they do it, it’ll be massive. At the moment nearly everything gets decided and determined and allocated by Westminster. Central control freakery. Better to give more control over decisions to local areas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted July 4, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 4, 2023 On 02/07/2023 at 09:11, magnkarl said: I'm not a fan of the factionalism Clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 4, 2023 Nobody likes factionalism. They just know that their side is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 9 hours ago, Jareth said: Honestly think they've outsourced these tweets to AI Are they saying that if Northern Ireland voted majority Sinn Fein they’d accept Irish unification? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 2 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Are they saying that if Northern Ireland voted majority Sinn Fein they’d accept Irish unification? That's not exactly how the Belfast agreement is phrased, but I'd assume that if such a time came that the SoS for Northern Ireland thought that a voting majority were in favour of Irish reunification then they'd call a referendum to find out, and accept the majority decision. Then again, I'd hope that any governing party would do that, given that's what has been decided. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 On 03/07/2023 at 08:26, blandy said: It’s one of those “I wouldn’t start from here” things, I think. By that I mean that it should not have been privatised way back, ideally, but since it has been the options to fix the bad consequences of that are not straightforward. Renationalisation is not necessarily the best fix. There are adverse consequences that are like little financial land mines laid when water was privatised. If Labour looks at the current problems with water and deals with them, rather than “oh just nationalise everything, it’ll magically fix the problems” that would be a step forward. jobbies in the rivers and sea farm sludge in the rivers crumbling pipes, sewers and reservoirs population growth and climate change driven demand v supply issues Excess profiteering etc…. Those are all fixable via a combo of restoring and increasing environment agency enforcement and staff levels, via actually prosecuting the polluters and the punishments being properly punitive, including restoration costs and obligations. Via inspection, auditing and checks on progress of Wa Co. maintenance and repair plans, via making social responsibility stuff a mandatory requirement and via taxing and wotnot. All that stuff basically has to happen whoever owns the water companies, right? And if publicly owned, it’s still gonna be private contractors digging up the road to fix a pipe, or brought in to reinforce a reservoir dam wall and all the rest of it. Nationalisation won’t fix any of the structural problems apart from, eventually, excessive profiteering and money going out to shareholders instead of being reinvested in the infrastructure or whatever. That’s fixable without nationalising it, and the flip side is nationalising it has huge consequences in other directions. I posted about all that in this thread before the last election, so not gonna repeat. The basic essence is it’s not so easy to put the genie back in the bottle and given the absolute state of everything, fixing it ought to come before “who owns what and which is the purer ideological ownership model?” I get all that, it’s a very sensible balanced modern take on what the UK is capable of in its managed decline. What I don’t get, is why he then also has a self titled Labour organised website that states a personal pledge to take water off shareholders and back in to common ownership. He comes over as very good at admin., I can’t believe its an admin error? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 4, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 4, 2023 16 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I get all that, it’s a very sensible balanced modern take on what the UK is capable of in its managed decline. What I don’t get, is why he then also has a self titled Labour organised website that states a personal pledge to take water off shareholders and back in to common ownership. He comes over as very good at admin., I can’t believe its an admin error? His Labour party has lots of principles. And if you are rich and powerful enough, you can choose which ones it has. Isn't that great!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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