The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[desensitized43]

11 minutes ago, blandy said:

Well said. I couldn’t think of how to express it, but you’ve captured it completely. The only thing I’d add, is that I don’t think it’s in any way (if it is the line of thinking she had) intended as a malign thought by her, more an accidental consequence of an understandable focus on racism against black people and therefore a lack of similar focus on racism against other races or ethnic groups.

I don't think she intended to be hurtful but when you've basically implied that Jews haven't suffered as much as Black people then I think intended or not, it's pretty hurtful. It's not a contest but sometimes it feels like some people are trying to make it one for reasons I can't get my head around.

[Chindie]

There is an argument sometimes made that anti-Semitism isn't considered 'truly' racism, that Jewish people are just white people and therefore in the 'stakes' of racism it's barely on the board. It comes from a couple of things - the unusual nature of Jewish identity being 'ethnoreligious' to the extent that some people simply reject the idea of Jewish 'race' and others historically taking it as purely a race matter, the issue of most Jewish people being able to meld into 'white society' pretty seamlessly because they just look like any other white person, and the fact that Jewish communities tend to, on the whole, be better off that the average, so lack the aggravating factor of being poor/struggling/etc.

Unfortunately things don't fit into simple boxes.

[MakemineVanilla]

Once you understand the basis for critical theory, it becomes obvious why minorities might compete for the status of being the greater victims of the hierarchal structure.

Dismissing other claims to victimhood might be predictable, when different groups are competing for preferential treatment, opportunity, or finite resources.

I think it could be claimed that Abbott's letter was not an attack on Jews per se but more a piece of lobbying on behalf of those she thinks of as her people.

 

[ml1dch]

35 minutes ago, Chindie said:

There is an argument sometimes made that anti-Semitism isn't considered 'truly' racism, that Jewish people are just white people and therefore in the 'stakes' of racism it's barely on the board. It comes from a couple of things - the unusual nature of Jewish identity being 'ethnoreligious' to the extent that some people simply reject the idea of Jewish 'race' and others historically taking it as purely a race matter, the issue of most Jewish people being able to meld into 'white society' pretty seamlessly because they just look like any other white person, and the fact that Jewish communities tend to, on the whole, be better off that the average, so lack the aggravating factor of being poor/struggling/etc.

There may well be an argument, but it's probably an argument that Labour MPs would be wise to steer clear of for a bit. 

[Chindie]

1 minute ago, ml1dch said:

There may well be an argument, but it's probably an argument that Labour MPs would be wise to steer clear of for a bit. 

It's ok, the infection has mostly been purged. A good dose of Sensi-centreStarmerase cleared it up right quick.

The argument let's the last few remaining boils come through to be lanced.

[NurembergVillan]

16 hours ago, Chindie said:

Abbott isn't a front bench figure, she's not even a senior figure in the party anymore on any scale other than her time served, she's not really a relevant figure anymore, we're still miles out from an election, and it's a topic that the average person isn't going to give a **** about really.

That's all well and good, but plenty of social media and WhatsApp groups were alight with Abbott-related bullshit over the weekend and I was exposed to some of it before I even knew about the furore behind it.

She may have good intentions but unfortunately she's a distraction. She's one of a handful of Labour MPs that the average Sun reader could likely name and so every gaffe is a gaffe on behalf of the party.

She's done some incredible things over the course of her life, no doubt, but the days of being able to put your foot in it as frequently and as publically as her and get away with it are over.

[blandy]

mod/admin action has been taken. Can we please revert to talking about the Labour Party. Thanks. Posts about racism generally moved to the racism thread.

[bickster]

It seems the Abbott first draft excuse isn't being believed as she sent the email twice, three hours apart.

Somebody at the Guardian appears to have leaked to the Jewish Chronical that the first time it was sent, she got an automated response telling her to add a postal address to the email. Which she did three hours later. Also that the email was sent from a personal account and not an official one, lessening the chances that an aide did it on her behalf.

Yes, I know, the JC is hardly an unbiased participant in this.

[Chindie]

The excuse was always to try and save her blushes that she's been really stupid. As ever, her problem is she jumps in with both feet without thinking when it comes to her pet subjects, and in this case she's jumped right onto a landmine.

[bickster]

Approval ratings of the main parties. Only Labour with a positive number

Tories have 52% with negative thoughts towards them

 

[magnkarl]

On 23/04/2023 at 11:02, ml1dch said:

Because obviously two millenia of anti-semitism is just the same as laughing at ginger people. 

Diane Abbott, towing the JC line even after JC's out.

I sometimes wonder if DA has dementia, but at least this time she managed to put some other minority groups into her racism than just the Jews. Just retire for Pete's sake.

Edited April 26, 2023 by magnkarl

[magnkarl]

On 24/04/2023 at 11:49, desensitized43 said:

I don't think she intended to be hurtful but when you've basically implied that Jews haven't suffered as much as Black people then I think intended or not, it's pretty hurtful. It's not a contest but sometimes it feels like some people are trying to make it one for reasons I can't get my head around.

For Abbott's circle it's not unlikely that she's struggling with separating Israeli politics from Jews, and when talking about historical prejudice that just falls flat on its face. It's always been an issue for the likes of JC\Williamson\Abbott et. al. to separate their hate for Israeli politics (of which much is well founded) with Jews in general, totally ignoring the fact that there's more Jews outside Israel than in. Palestine seems to create such a mental issue for many of the lefties in Labour that they can't keep from being racist.

[juanpabloangel18]

In the resulting media furore following Abbott's misguided & clumsy letter I've seen basically zero mention of how it minimised discrimination suffered by Irish or Traveller people. All the commentary has been about how the letter was anti-Semitic.

For example, Starmer said her letter was anti-Semitic with as far as I know, no mention of Irish or Travellers.

Funny.

[cheltenham_villa]

Great PMQs, two millionaires arguing over who best helps the poor.

[Chindie]

12 minutes ago, juanpabloangel18 said:

In the resulting media furore following Abbott's misguided & clumsy letter I've seen basically zero mention of how it minimised discrimination suffered by Irish or Traveller people. All the commentary has been about how the letter was anti-Semitic.

For example, Starmer said her letter was anti-Semitic with as far as I know, no mention of Irish or Travellers.

Funny.

Sadly there's become tiers of racism and that against traveller communities is firmly bottom of it.

Plus the whole Left of Labour hating Jews was the story de jour for years so a revisit immediately gets the limelight.

[bickster]

11 minutes ago, juanpabloangel18 said:

Abbott's misguided & clumsy letter

No, really, it really really wasn't that.

 

14 minutes ago, juanpabloangel18 said:

For example, Starmer said her letter was anti-Semitic with as far as I know, no mention of Irish or Travellers.

You need to listen to the interview and the question that was asked.

 

[magnkarl]

23 minutes ago, juanpabloangel18 said:

In the resulting media furore following Abbott's misguided & clumsy letter I've seen basically zero mention of how it minimised discrimination suffered by Irish or Traveller people. All the commentary has been about how the letter was anti-Semitic.

For example, Starmer said her letter was anti-Semitic with as far as I know, no mention of Irish or Travellers.

Funny.

No? This took me 2 minutes.

Beeb

Quote

A spokesperson for Friends, Families and Travellers said: "Diane Abbott's letter accurately demonstrates the constant erasure of Irish Traveller, Romany Gypsy and Roma people's daily experiences of racism and discrimination.

"The letter is utterly inexcusable, and we condemn it in the strongest possible terms.

"We welcome the Labour Party's swift response and call on all parties and government to review their anti-racism strategies, to ensure everyone can live free from racist hate."

Irish Times

Quote

Letter in Observer also sought to distinguish ‘prejudice’ against Irish people and Travellers from ‘racism’ experienced by black people

I

Quote

Jewish and Gypsy, Roma and Traveller groups horrified by Diane Abbott’s racism comments

LE

Quote

Diane Abbott suspended over claims Irish, Jewish and Travellers don't suffer racism

Seems to me that you're trying to rate the response to the different forms of racism in her letter as you feel one is more important than others, when the media is full of reactions to all forms of racism in her letter. She said something idiotic (again), and is getting attacked about all points of her stupidity. One sees what one wants to see, I guess.

Edited April 26, 2023 by magnkarl

[bickster]

 

[markavfc40]

No surprise that Labour leads on things like NHS, Education, dealing with poverty. When they are leading on crime, the economy, immigration(despite Bravermans desperate attempts in going all NF) then the Tories must know they are done for. Labour have had to do very little to achieve all this though, other than watch and then point out the obvious.

[bickster]

51 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

No surprise that Labour leads on things like NHS, Education, dealing with poverty. When they are leading on crime, the economy, immigration(despite Bravermans desperate attempts in going all NF) then the Tories must know they are done for. Labour have had to do very little to achieve all this though, other than watch and then point out the obvious.

Even leading slightly on Ukraine which is rather strange I think