The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[OutByEaster?]

7 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Yeah but then what? Is this goung to be a one off or permanent? If the prices dont go down and people ned help again is he going to inpose the same tax or is there a plan B?

I cant see him being ablw to kmpose this tax more than once to be honest  they will just pass the charge back down to the consumer

I'm not reading it as imposing a windfall tax, I'm seeing it as actually asking some of these company's to pay tax - that would be a decent start 

Even as a one off, the cost to the public would be zero wouldn't it?

This is the country asking the profit of shareholders to share some of the pain.

 

[Jareth]

2 hours ago, bickster said:

How is that a solution to the energy price crisis?

Well the billions of profits would not go to shareholders but subsidise customers' bills. Thought that was obvious. But yes as for right now, nationalisation will take too long - maybe we should have a bit of both, start the process of nationalisation AND subsidise customers through a very large windfall tax. 

[tinker]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'm not reading it as imposing a windfall tax, I'm seeing it as actually asking some of these company's to pay tax - that would be a decent start 

Even as a one off, the cost to the public would be zero wouldn't it?

This is the country asking the profit of shareholders to share some of the pain.

 

Companies should obviously pay a fair amount of tax but any increase in tax (a windfall tax) is just going to fuel the incompetence shown by our government, half of the vehicle fuel price is more or less tax anyway and they want more from it ! It's wrong .

Inflation should be covered by raising the wages of employees, not increasing taxes so these idiot politicians can dish it out as they see fit. 

[OutByEaster?]

51 minutes ago, tinker said:

Companies should obviously pay a fair amount of tax.

And therein lies the problem - for example, BP paid zero tax in the UK between 2018 and 2020.

In 2019, BP's effective tax rate was -54%  - that's minus 54%.

The UK supports the fuel extraction industry through grants, subsidies and tax breaks to the tune of around £10b a year.

I'm not in favour of a windfall tax.

I'm in favour of tax.

 

[fruitvilla]

6 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

This is the country asking the profit of shareholders to share some of the pain.

Now I understand not everyone is as lucky as I am, but for a good many people, shares, directly or indirectly, are pensions future or current.  So when we ask shareholders to share some of the pain then it's a double whammy for them.

Edited August 17, 2022 by fruitvilla

[bannedfromHandV]

Keir Starmer live on BBC radio / news channel right now and for the past hour or so.

Classic politician, speaks a lot without saying or committing to anything, he really does come across as some kind of Tory-lite wannabe.

I can’t vote for him in a GE.

[bickster]

2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Keir Starmer live on BBC radio / news channel right now and for the past hour or so.

Classic politician, speaks a lot without saying or committing to anything, he really does come across as some kind of Tory-lite wannabe.

I can’t vote for him in a GE.

The first bold bit is correct, the second isn't. It's a trait of politicians generally not just Tories 

[Demitri_C]

Labour will come in, not much will change

 Blame it on the last government like the tories did when they came in.r

 Rinse and repeat. Starmer doesnt have a plan either it seems. All he has said is a windfall tax on energy companies. Thats a start but what else? Whats the long term plan?

All he says is " i absolutely understand" then doesnt answer the question

[bickster]

31 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Labour will come in, not much will change

Do you think the last time Labour were in Government that little changed?

I found this list, I'm not claiming it's 100% accurate or that some of these points aren't debatable but all these changes prove that last time they were in power a lot changed

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.
2. Low mortgage rates.
3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.
4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.
5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.
6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.
7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.
8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.
9. Employment is at its highest level ever.
10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.
11. 85,000 more nurses.
12. 32,000 more doctors.
13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.
14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.
15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.
16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.
17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.
18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.
19. Restored city-wide government to London.
20. Record number of students in higher education.
21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.
22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.
23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
24. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.
25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.
27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.
28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.
29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.
30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.
31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.
32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.
33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.
34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.
35. Banned fox hunting.
36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.
37. Free TV licences for over-75s.
38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.
39. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.
40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.
41. New Deal – helped over 1.8 million people into work.
42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.
43. Free eye test for over 60s.
44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.
45. Free entry to national museums and galleries.
46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.
47. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.
48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.
49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.
50. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.

But given all that happened last time, what makes you think nothing will change this time if they are elected?

Some of those things last time are some of the things you yourself have said you'd want improving again, like NHS staffing levels as an example of that.

[Demitri_C]

30 minutes ago, bickster said:

Do you think the last time Labour were in Government that little changed?

I found this list, I'm not claiming it's 100% accurate or that some of these points aren't debatable but all these changes prove that last time they were in power a lot changed

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.
2. Low mortgage rates.
3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.
4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.
5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.
6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.
7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.
8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.
9. Employment is at its highest level ever.
10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.
11. 85,000 more nurses.
12. 32,000 more doctors.
13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.
14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.
15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.
16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.
17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.
18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.
19. Restored city-wide government to London.
20. Record number of students in higher education.
21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.
22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.
23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
24. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.
25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.
27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.
28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.
29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.
30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.
31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.
32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.
33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.
34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.
35. Banned fox hunting.
36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.
37. Free TV licences for over-75s.
38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.
39. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.
40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.
41. New Deal – helped over 1.8 million people into work.
42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.
43. Free eye test for over 60s.
44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.
45. Free entry to national museums and galleries.
46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.
47. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.
48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.
49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.
50. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.

But given all that happened last time, what makes you think nothing will change this time if they are elected?

Some of those things last time are some of the things you yourself have said you'd want improving again, like NHS staffing levels as an example of that.

What has starmer said about increasing NHS staff levels? What has he actually said his plan is to fix the nhs? The tories have destroyed the nhs ive said that countless times.

Some of that list is definitely  questionable.  Probably a tory fan has a list somewhere of all the good the tories have done since they came into powe

Cleanest beachs??

Target to reach green house gases? 

Over 3 million trust funs started?

Whats unemployment like now compared to when labour got out of power?

Inflation is up because of the war. Even if labour were u charge now what would they do? It would be the same.

I dislike this shit government but whats the plan keir? I want a detailed plan how we get out of this mess and none of the main parties are telling us

 

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Cleanest beachs??

yes, you know, not full of human shit because the water companies haven't been dumping raw sewage into the sea, thats the raw sewage that we all pay our water charges for them to do but to make more money for shareholders jobbies get flushed into the sea

You say it like its a stupid daft claim

[bickster]

17 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I want a detailed plan how we get out of this mess and none of the main parties are telling us

How many times so far have the Tories actually scoffed at Labour's ideas and then actually done them?

Why would Labour actually release detailed plans this far ahead of an election, you'll only be able to judge that when the manifesto is released. There's also little point in releasing detailed policy when we're so close to the conference season.

[Demitri_C]

33 minutes ago, bickster said:

yes, you know, not full of human shit because the wate companies haven't been dumping raw sewage into the sea, thats the raw sewage that we all pay our water charges for them to do but to make more money for shareholders jobbies get flushed into the sea

You say it like its a stupid daft claim

It is though. Thats the responsibility of the water companies to be responsible for how do the government get praise for that?. 

[Demitri_C]

38 minutes ago, bickster said:

How many times so far have the Tories actually scoffed at Labour's ideas and then actually done them?

Why would Labour actually release detailed plans this far ahead of an election, you'll only be able to judge that when the manifesto is released. There's also little point in releasing detailed policy when we're so close to the conference season.

I think thats a excuse personally. People are not dumb if labour  makes all these ideas tories steal them people will see right through them.

I cant wait to hear what the tories and labour parties plans are for the nhs. Thats going to be very interesting to me

[markavfc40]

32 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

It is though. Thats the responsibility of the water companies to be responsible for how do the government get praise for that?. 

As a government you legislate to make sure it doesn't happen, not legislate to allow it. If I was to go down the local swimming baths with a barrow full of my own excrement and tipped it in I'd be arrested and punished as the law wouldn't allow it.   

[bickster]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

I think thats a excuse personally.

How can it be an excuse when its not an opinion, it's fact?

It happened countless times in the pandemic, it happened with the windfall tax...

[bickster]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

It is though. Thats the responsibility of the water companies to be responsible for how do the government get praise for that?. 

Because the Government fined them every time they did it. Now the Tories abandoned that under COVID Emergency legislation and guess what, our shoreline is swimming in jobbies

It is directly the governments fault

[Demitri_C]

42 minutes ago, bickster said:

Because the Government fined them every time they did it. Now the Tories abandoned that under COVID Emergency legislation and guess what, our shoreline is swimming in jobbies

It is directly the governments fault

So no blame on the water companies then? Just government should be penalising them but how can anyone not blame the water companies? Its their fault.

45 minutes ago, bickster said:

How can it be an excuse when its not an opinion, it's fact?

It happened countless times in the pandemic, it happened with the windfall tax...

It is a excuse. We got 2 years or so until your next election. Give us a long term plan. Show us what kind of party you want to be. None of these parties have given us anything and that includes the lib dems.

I have no idea what the plans are for the nhs, the help for people long term just temporary solutions, 

Its not just me i know alot of hardcore labour supporters and they dont even know what the labour party stands for these days.

[bobzy]

13 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

It is a excuse. We got 2 years or so until your next election. Give us a long term plan. Show us what kind of party you want to be. None of these parties have given us anything and that includes the lib dems.

I have no idea what the plans are for the nhs, the help for people long term just temporary solutions, 

Its not just me i know alot of hardcore labour supporters and they dont even know what the labour party stands for these days.

 

Why would any opposing party come out publicly and give their brilliant plans to resolving everything?  You're not thinking straight Dem.

[Demitri_C]

3 minutes ago, bobzy said:

 

Why would any opposing party come out publicly and give their brilliant plans to resolving everything?  You're not thinking straight Dem.

Lets come back to this topic in next few years and see if anythings changed

Im not optimistic