bickster Posted August 15, 2022 Moderator Share Posted August 15, 2022 4 minutes ago, Genie said: Labour have suggested these sensible ideas to help the country the Tories will flatly refuse to entertain them, making the problem worse. Current form under Johnson suggests that they'll tell Labour how ludicrous an idea it is and then run with it three weeks later. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 3 hours ago, Genie said: Looks like Labour / Starmer have broken cover and are suggesting a couple of policies. 1) Lock the price cap at current levels 2) Extra tax on oil/gas giants. Theyll probably need a lie down now. The sad news is that now The Tories will be dead against both of these “Labour policies”. Number 1 is a given, people will never be able to afford it. Number 2, Why pick these only as they had no choice or influence on the profits ? (Just thinking out loud really, what could oil / gas companies do to not have to pay more tax). (Eg go for Apple / Microsoft , Covid meant they sold loads more laptops and made a lot of profit ?) Looking at it from the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 Locking the price cap at the current level is a crap policy as the prices are already too high for a large proportion of people to be able to manage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 15, 2022 Author Share Posted August 15, 2022 Some economists are saying starmers plan would be as expensive as the furlough scheme (60billion) Not a expert in any way but if this was the case wouldnt we be back at square one later? Or would the expectation be by then maybe the war might be over then so prices might be lower? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) Labour earlier today saying how they have a big plan and are 'about' to launch a campaigning blitz, in order to be seen as the owners of the plan prior to whatever offer the new PM comes out with. This was literally the entire substance of their press release. They have said publicly that their main motivation is to be seen as the authors of a plan to save the energy crisis. That is their motivation, to be first in there. They are literally saying that is what they want. How about they 'do' it, rather than wish it. Edited August 16, 2022 by Jareth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 4 hours ago, Jareth said: Labour earlier today saying how they have a big plan and are 'about' to launch a campaigning blitz, in order to be seen as the owners of the plan prior to whatever offer the new PM comes out with. This was literally the entire substance of their press release. They have said publicly that their main motivation is to be seen as the authors of a plan to save the energy crisis. That is their motivation, to be first in there. They are literally saying that is what they want. How about they 'do' it, rather than wish it. They'd have to be in government? They did release a plan too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 17, 2022 Moderator Share Posted August 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Rolta said: They'd have to be in government? They did release a plan too. Must have been asleep on Monday when it actually happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted August 17, 2022 Moderator Share Posted August 17, 2022 On 15/08/2022 at 13:40, Demitri_C said: Some economists are saying starmers plan would be as expensive as the furlough scheme (60billion) Expensive for who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 On 15/08/2022 at 12:10, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Number 1 is a given, people will never be able to afford it. Number 2, Why pick these only as they had no choice or influence on the profits ? (Just thinking out loud really, what could oil / gas companies do to not have to pay more tax). (Eg go for Apple / Microsoft , Covid meant they sold loads more laptops and made a lot of profit ?) Looking at it from the other side. The alternative wasn't pushing millions of people into poverty as they were forced to buy laptops at obscenely high prices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 Greens are going full nationalisation of energy - this will surely take some traditionally left voters away from Labour. Not sure Labour can afford to be so bland, I know there's not an election imminent (though I give Truss 6 months) but they've been late to react to a massive crisis and now they have done, they are possibly offering something out of step with what the public actually want (based on that recent poll where the public back nationalisation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 44 minutes ago, Jareth said: Greens are going full nationalisation of energy It's definitely an interesting ideological shift from the Green Party to commit to spend billions of pounds of public money on propping up the fossil fuels industry. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozzavfc Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Jareth said: Greens are going full nationalisation of energy - this will surely take some traditionally left voters away from Labour. Not sure Labour can afford to be so bland, I know there's not an election imminent (though I give Truss 6 months) but they've been late to react to a massive crisis and now they have done, they are possibly offering something out of step with what the public actually want (based on that recent poll where the public back nationalisation). Unless they are planning on nationalising the energy generating parts of BP and Shell it's not going to make that much of a difference. Otherwise it's just the government buying gas the world market over multiple different firms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 17, 2022 Moderator Share Posted August 17, 2022 49 minutes ago, ml1dch said: It's definitely an interesting ideological shift from the Green Party to commit to spend billions of pounds of public money on propping up the fossil fuels industry. Indeed. And nationalising the energy distributors doesn’t change the price of gas that the international marketplace sets one iota. On top of nationalisation there would still need to be steps taken to help consumers with their bills. It’s not the distributors that are the cause of the problem. It seems like whoever is government will have to feed money, either to consumers directly, or to distributors directly to plug the gap between what people can afford to pay and what the cost of the energy to the distributors is. The political question is how to do that, to what extent and how to fund it. They could do it from taxation via windfall taxes or general taxes, they could do it by printing money and increasing debt ( and debt payments…which means higher taxes) or maybe they could take equity in the distribution companies and so the shares they pay for they can later sell, while the money they pay for the shares goes towards people’s bills - so partial public ownership, but as you say ( and I’ve also posted previously) why on earth would the government or greens want to buy an industry that needs to become extinct (fossil fuel distributors) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 2 hours ago, ml1dch said: It's definitely an interesting ideological shift from the Green Party to commit to spend billions of pounds of public money on propping up the fossil fuels industry. I'd have thought they'd use that position to purchase increasingly more green energy than is the case now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 17, 2022 Moderator Share Posted August 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jareth said: I'd have thought they'd use that position to purchase increasingly more green energy than is the case now How is that a solution to the energy price crisis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, Jareth said: I'd have thought they'd use that position to purchase increasingly more green energy than is the case now As bicks says, that may well be a sensible, long-term goal. But in the discussion that is happening at the moment of "how are people going to afford to pay their bills", it would involve paying enormous amounts of money for oil and gas assets, money which under a Green administration, could be used for investment in renewables. It's akin to someone struggling underwater in a canal, and the proposed solution being based around waterway planning reform. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 17, 2022 Author Share Posted August 17, 2022 4 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Expensive for who? The country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 17, 2022 Author Share Posted August 17, 2022 I do want to hear labours plan for fixing the nhs as i think as well as the cost of living this is equally as important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted August 17, 2022 Moderator Share Posted August 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: The country How so? Isn't the plan to put additional taxes onto oil companies and fix prices - this will be expensive to their shareholders, who are for the most part financial institutions based on Wall Street, but not for the nation or the taxpayer. For 'the country' it'd be a saving wouldn't it? Have I misunderstood Starmer's plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 17, 2022 Author Share Posted August 17, 2022 1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said: How so? Isn't the plan to put additional taxes onto oil companies and fix prices - this will be expensive to their shareholders, who are for the most part financial institutions based on Wall Street, but not for the nation or the taxpayer. For 'the country' it'd be a saving wouldn't it? Have I misunderstood Starmer's plan? Yeah but then what? Is this goung to be a one off or permanent? If the prices dont go down and people ned help again is he going to inpose the same tax or is there a plan B? I cant see him being ablw to kmpose this tax more than once to be honest they will just pass the charge back down to the consumer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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