The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[blandy]

5 minutes ago, Jon said:

There's no way I could vote Labour under him.  Unless, and this is a big ask, he adopts a raft of socialist principles and policies in the run up to the GE. But even if that happened, I don't think I'd believe him. 

I think you’re like me in regard of living in a safe Tory seat?  If so, then the likes of us have 3 choices, as I see it, given that our votes are essentially wasted.

1. Vote for the party least unlikely to throw out the Tory MP. In most places, that either be Labour or Lib Dem in England, and just keep your fingers crossed. Or

2. Vote for the party closest to your personal outlook (e.g. Green, for me).

3. Spoil the ballot/ stay away.

Most of politics is the way it is because of the rotten system. I think Starmer is doing what he is in order to use that System to get a Labour government, which might not be the type you or I or @OutByEaster?would ideally like, but as Scott says, it’ll be miles better than the lot we’ve got now.

Where I’m optimistic is that if Labour do get in by not frightening the horses, they can then start to be more dynamic. But they’ve got to get in first. I think they (from what they are doing) are playing that game. But I completely accept others think “no, they’re basically the same as the Tories, maybe not quite as bad, but miles from what I want them to be”. Only time will tell.

[Jareth]

3 hours ago, blandy said:

This what momentum said about that

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43620717

TBH Momentum simply had to say that. It's accurate and it refers to the dirty tricks going on by never-Corbyn staff. But anyone with a brain knows it was a bullshit ploy to kill off JC. Yes he was vulnerable to it, but no flippin way was it the truth of the situation. Look at the panorama doc, I know how a doc is put together and I watched that smearing film state selected extract after extract of emails to tell the story it wanted told. Then Forde goes and states that is exactly what happened - albeit years later and with the contributors paid off by Starmer - with my and other ex Labour members and unions money. It was a sickening master class in how to drag someone down. Folks are entitled to their own opinion of course - but to me it was as clear as day. 

[ml1dch]

Given Lisa Nandy and Navendu Mishra (a Labour whip) have been shouting about their presence on picket lines this morning, I think it's safe to say the "don't show that you support striking workers" line has been quietly dropped. 

[OutByEaster?]

The thing with being 'middle of the road' and 'not frightening the horses' is that it's not how the election will be won.

This country is full of angry, frustrated voters, they see themselves getting poorer, they see record profits, they see strikes, they see the NHS deteriorating and they see all sort of services going down the tubes.

The next election will be won by the party that best grasps that anger and frustration and is able to turn it to their own ends.

It's how the last election was won and how Brexit was won - the creation of "others" whose fault this is and who we'll get rid of if you just vote for us.

Capturing the public anger and frustration will win the next election.

[Risso]

1 hour ago, ml1dch said:

Given Lisa Nandy and Navendu Mishra (a Labour whip) have been shouting about their presence on picket lines this morning, I think it's safe to say the "don't show that you support striking workers" line has been quietly dropped. 

Wasn't it his speaking to the press from the picket line that was the issue, supposedly at least?

[markavfc40]

12 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

 

This country is full of angry, frustrated voters, they see themselves getting poorer, they see record profits, they see strikes, they see the NHS deteriorating and they see all sort of services going down the tubes.

 

If people are feeling all that and are then stupid enough to vote for the party that will have been in government for 13/14 years by that point, and have been responsible for all that anger/frustration, poverty and destruction of our public services, then God help us all. 

Labour have got to drill home who has been responsible for peoples woes. Despite the rags trying to convince people otherwise it really shouldn't be that difficult. 

[blandy]

1 hour ago, ml1dch said:

Given Lisa Nandy and Navendu Mishra (a Labour whip) have been shouting about their presence on picket lines this morning, I think it's safe to say the "don't show that you support striking workers" line has been quietly dropped. 

I’m not even sure it ever existed as a “thou shall not…”

What’s odd about all this is that Starmer was really good with the P&O workers, so much so that Mick Lynch praised him for what he did.

its also odd that Labour hasn’t been more generally vocally supportive of people as a whole, not just rail or postal workers or whoever. Like I’ve said loads of times, I think I get their methodology and reasoning for nearly all their tactics, but they could do a lot more messaging around the cost of living and pay and the economy.

[ml1dch]

29 minutes ago, Risso said:

Wasn't it his speaking to the press from the picket line that was the issue, supposedly at least?

Supposedly. But then given the messaging since has been solidly "we're a party that should be in Government and Governments don't go on picket lines".

So it's at best, a bit muddled.

[magnkarl]

On 30/07/2022 at 17:11, Jareth said:

TBH Momentum simply had to say that. It's accurate and it refers to the dirty tricks going on by never-Corbyn staff. But anyone with a brain knows it was a bullshit ploy to kill off JC. Yes he was vulnerable to it, but no flippin way was it the truth of the situation. Look at the panorama doc, I know how a doc is put together and I watched that smearing film state selected extract after extract of emails to tell the story it wanted told. Then Forde goes and states that is exactly what happened - albeit years later and with the contributors paid off by Starmer - with my and other ex Labour members and unions money. It was a sickening master class in how to drag someone down. Folks are entitled to their own opinion of course - but to me it was as clear as day. 

Did you read the latest wise statements by JC in the guardian by any chance? He’s pretty much showing that he and his friends are on the payroll at Kremlin, that he’s learnt nothing from his antics and that he’d rather save his own ‘reputation’ than owning up to any of it. He’s not a leader by a mile and a half, he’s blinkered, on the take by god knows what totalitarian state (Iran/Russia) and unwilling to learn anything past the time when he went down any old London street protesting people being rich while coming from a well off family in an extremely rich part of the country.

 

[Jareth]

20 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Did you read the latest wise statements by JC in the guardian by any chance? He’s pretty much showing that he and his friends are on the payroll at Kremlin, that he’s learnt nothing from his antics and that he’d rather save his own ‘reputation’ than owning up to any of it. He’s not a leader by a mile and a half, he’s blinkered, on the take by god knows what totalitarian state (Iran/Russia) and unwilling to learn anything past the time when he went down any old London street protesting people being rich while coming from a well off family in an extremely rich part of the country.

 

Not a fan then? Should have said.

I don't agree with his view that a peaceful world will be achieved by not opposing the likes of Putin, same on the nuclear deterrent - but we don't have a presidential system here and trident was going to be retained under Labour despite his personal opposition. He was unable to stop a hostile faction in his own party through naievity - I don't doubt we'd have seen that do for him as a PM eventually - but that doesn't make him a Kremlin employee nor does it make him a seething antisemite. He's also now an independent MP - he can do and say what he wants - let it boil your piss if you want it to.

I'd have thought a more on topic post about Labour in summer 2022 would be looking at the YouGov poll that has the tories level pegging in the polls.

[MNVillan]

On 01/08/2022 at 06:30, OutByEaster? said:

The thing with being 'middle of the road' and 'not frightening the horses' is that it's not how the election will be won.

This country is full of angry, frustrated voters, they see themselves getting poorer, they see record profits, they see strikes, they see the NHS deteriorating and they see all sort of services going down the tubes.

The next election will be won by the party that best grasps that anger and frustration and is able to turn it to their own ends.

It's how the last election was won and how Brexit was won - the creation of "others" whose fault this is and who we'll get rid of if you just vote for us.

Capturing the public anger and frustration will win the next election.

Sounds like what’s happening in America.

[chrisp65]

 

 

[Jareth]

Lib Dems now openly calling for £36bill gov support to cancel the next energy price rise. Tories are absent. Labour need a position. 

[bickster]

15 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Labour need a position. 

The Tories already took Labour's windfall tax idea and ran with it. Just to point out that claiming Labour needs to have a position is a bit silly when they had a position long before the Tories and indeed were mocked by said Tories for having that position until they took it for themselves

Once again we have an issue where Labur needs to have a position, except they did, much earlier than the Tories

 

[OutByEaster?]

I'm presuming that was a position that Kier inherited?

Personally I'm not looking for windfall taxes, I'd like to see actual regular taxes instead.

 

[Jareth]

30 minutes ago, bickster said:

The Tories already took Labour's windfall tax idea and ran with it. Just to point out that claiming Labour needs to have a position is a bit silly when they had a position long before the Tories and indeed were mocked by said Tories for having that position until they took it for themselves

Once again we have an issue where Labur needs to have a position, except they did, much earlier than the Tories

 

Currently they have agreed to cut VAT on energy bills - if they can’t offer a specific way to help people in October then they might as well be on holiday like the tories. 

[markavfc40]

8 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Currently they have agreed to cut VAT on energy bills - if they can’t offer a specific way to help people in October then they might as well be on holiday like the tories. 

VAT on energy bills is 5% isn't it so when the average bill hits 3.5k in next few months that will be £175 a year. F all in the grand scheme of things and almost not worth talking about. It needs radical change like forcing a lower price cap, and the energy companies to take a hit on profits, or look across the water to France and renationalisation. 

Edited August 8, 2022 by markavfc40

[Jareth]

37 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

VAT on energy bills is 5% isn't it so when the average bill hits 3.5k in next few months that will be £175 a year. F all in the grand scheme of things and almost not worth talking about. It needs radical change like forcing a lower price cap, and the energy companies to take a hit on profits, or look across the water to France and renationalisation. 

Even the Lib Dems have taken a radical position, and they're chasing blue voters. I get that Labour don't want to rock the boat but as we all understand at least on here anyway, October is going to be a major disaster for so many people - yet the government and the opposition are currently offering no solutions. There's no political will to sort this. 

[bickster]

59 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Currently they have agreed to cut VAT on energy bills - if they can’t offer a specific way to help people in October then they might as well be on holiday like the tories. 

Do you think Labour will be in Government by October?

[OutByEaster?]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

Do you think Labour will be in Government by October?

It'd be nice if they were in opposition by then.