The Fun Factory Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 It's very bland though isn't it. Starmer is probably a safe pair of hands but as the opposition leader you have to persuade people to vote for you rather than in utter revulsion to the current regime. At the moment it looks like in Labour will continue to be strong in the big cities and might re gain some of the old northern seats but I can't see them getting some of the 1997-2010 seats back, plus Scotland is more or less lost now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 (edited) Starmers master plan is to get a new deal with the EU whilst pledging not to join the single market or customs union. Did he sleep through the years of us failing to get anything worthwhile out of the EU as a third country? FFS, what a complete waste of time he and the labour party are. Edited July 4, 2022 by Genie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Davkaus Posted July 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 4, 2022 If the tories pledged to execute half a million people, Starmer's Labour would probably moderate the position to only slaughtering 450,000 to appeal to the middle ground. Just pragmatism, ain't it. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 It’s like Starmer is staring at the problems, can see the obvious solutions, and just ignores them. Vote him in and he’ll have a go at doing exactly the same as what the Tories have failed miserably at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 4, 2022 Author Share Posted July 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Genie said: Starmers master plan is to get a new deal with the EU whilst pledging not to join the single market or customs union. Did he sleep through the years of us failing to get anything worthwhile out of the EU as a third country? FFS, what a complete waste of time he and the labour party are. If he had said would consider rejoining eu that would have been very appealing to me. As you say we aint getting no new deal from them. A complete and utter waste of time and now seeing some red flags with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: If he had said would consider rejoining eu that would have been very appealing to me. As you say we aint getting no new deal from them. A complete and utter waste of time and now seeing some red flags with him I’d have been up for the EU but it won’t happen and I understand why. Sensible, but brave option would be customs union or single market access. I’d have been up for that too. I don’t see a reason to vote for Labour tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 There can’t be many people that see Starmer with red flags, he’s usually so careful to stay away from them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 4, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 4, 2022 He's really trying to turn me into a Liberal Democrat voter I didn't think that was even possible Ruling out SIngle Market access and FOM is just plain stupid. He's chasing a dwindling share of the electorate that he'll share with the Tories He's also chasing away the now bigger share of the elctorate and leading them right into the hands of the LibDems Next few months polls are going to be very interesting Only Labour could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 …. and just like that millions of Tories all breathed a sigh of relief and then after a few moments of disbelief all burst into laughter knowing they will be safe for yet another decade. Keir, Keir, Keir 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanpabloangel18 Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Starmer is a coward, terrified of the far right, and completely lacks strategy. There is absolutely no need to rule out rejoining the SM at this point - it'd probably be a vote winner if he said it was on the table. I'm also guessing the LDs are seeing that and wondering if a coalition is even possible. What a disappointment he is, in so many respects. Agree there is no positive reason to vote Labour atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicho Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 12 hours ago, Genie said: It’s like Starmer is staring at the problems, can see the obvious solutions, and just ignores them. Vote him in and he’ll have a go at doing exactly the same as what the Tories have failed miserably at. The problem being if he comes out right and says the truth about brexit, you have lost the vote of every person that still believe in brexit (and that is a lot) including members who wouldn’t usually vote against labour. Unfortunately it’s the way it is. I do truly believe we will return to the EU, it will take multiple governments about 15 years to come to a clear consensus. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 11 hours ago, bickster said: He's really trying to turn me into a Liberal Democrat voter I didn't think that was even possible Ruling out SIngle Market access and FOM is just plain stupid. He's chasing a dwindling share of the electorate that he'll share with the Tories He's also chasing away the now bigger share of the elctorate and leading them right into the hands of the LibDems Next few months polls are going to be very interesting Only Labour could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory Changed your opinion then Bick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 12 minutes ago, juanpabloangel18 said: Starmer is a coward, terrified of the far right, and completely lacks strategy. There is absolutely no need to rule out rejoining the SM at this point There is the inconvenient point that the others members of the Single Market would in no way consider our membership at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 5, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 5, 2022 7 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Changed your opinion then Bick? No, not at all my opinions remain the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, bickster said: No, not at all my opinions remain the same You were staunchly defending Starmer as recently as as couple of weeks ago i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted July 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, Nicho said: The problem being if he comes out right and says the truth about brexit, you have lost the vote of every person that still believe in brexit (and that is a lot) including members who wouldn’t usually vote against labour. Unfortunately it’s the way it is. I do truly believe we will return to the EU, it will take multiple governments about 15 years to come to a clear consensus. Yeah I think this is the tactic to be honest. We know he genuinely believes that better in than out. The reality is that if he did say “we should not rule out Single Markey or Custom Union” the Tories (and Daily Mail, Sun etc) will immediately accuse him of being a traitor to Brexit and instantly lose all those potential votes. So long as the Tories are getting those votes, Labour is not getting into power. Once in power he can tailor it, especially if they have to do a coalition with the SNP or Lib Dems who will both be pro Europe - that can be explored in the future. There are also some levels of engagement with Europe outside of single market or custom union (e.g. similar to Switzerland) which would be infinitely better than the current sh*t show. I honestly think it is not a terrible idea making the pledge, certainly right now anyway. It means he doesn’t have to go on the defensive on the issue and focus on other matters to criticise the Tories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 19 minutes ago, Nicho said: The problem being if he comes out right and says the truth about brexit, you have lost the vote of every person that still believe in brexit (and that is a lot) including members who wouldn’t usually vote against labour. Unfortunately it’s the way it is. I do truly believe we will return to the EU, it will take multiple governments about 15 years to come to a clear consensus. We may return to the EU but I don’t believe it will be in less than 30 years. Too much right wing media continuing to haunt the minds of those who look to blame, with ‘mass’ illegal immigration. Not that the two are linked of course, but that won’t stop the narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 It is a damned if you do, damned if you don't question. It just makes it a little mystifying to me why he felt the need to make this unforced statement. It does slightly undermine the idea that others have been using to defend his vague, non-committal general approach to politics, as "well he doesn't need to commit to things this soon before an election". Well, he's got no problem committing to this, so the precedent is well and truly set next time he drags his feet, stays quiet, and compares focus group results before he can decide what he believes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 5, 2022 Author Share Posted July 5, 2022 Cant see us rejoining the EU unfortunately any party that pledges they will rejoin i will vote for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 5, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 5, 2022 1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said: You were staunchly defending Starmer as recently as as couple of weeks ago i think I think you may have confused something, I've pointed out where people were talking bollocks about Starmer because they were. For example people were saying he'd gone back on his pledges when he ran for leader, when he hadn't but on the other hand during lockdowns I criticised his opinion that kids should be sent back to school. Again flipping it again people were criticising him for "doing nothing" and his dip in the polls, I pointed out that he's been leading the Government by the nose throughout and that Johnsons polling was only rising because of the vaccines and there was little Starmer could do about that (I absolutely stand by that too) I'm not into personality cults and I've not really been a Labour voter for a couple of decades. (thats well documented in here and other places) So no, nothing has changed. My opinion on his announcement yesterday is that he's wrong and even tactically wrong because I suppose, it doesn't suit my view on what I'd like to happen. But that's my opinion on specific policy issues and not my opinion of the person. Lots of the criticism he gets is tribal personality bollocks and that should be called out for just what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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