The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, ml1dch said:

*glances at the betting odds*

 

Yeah, you've definitely won this one, not a shadow of a doubt.

I still think it made no good sense from Labour's perspective - a view I share with *spit* Nuke Akehurst, I see - but they really did pull the plug completely and it has had the result it has had.

- - - -

To any mods reading this, I would like to make a £10 donation, but clicking on 'Store' above, it is completely empty? Where do I need to go?

[ml1dch]

13 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I still think it made no good sense from Labour's perspective - a view I share with *spit* Nuke Akehurst, I see - but they really did pull the plug completely and it has had the result it has had.

As I put elsewhere - the fact that Starmer's "vote Labour in North Shropshire" tweet was just after 7pm, and he's otherwise not even mentioned it shows how much effort they were putting in.

Almost highlights it more than if he'd just said nothing. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by ml1dch

[limpid]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

To any mods reading this, I would like to make a £10 donation, but clicking on 'Store' above, it is completely empty? Where do I need to go?

There's the site Issues forum, tagging a mod or sending a PM, but I have to find this in a random bollitics thread. Fixed now, thanks

[OutByEaster?]

You've been in charge for twenty months and your opponent is looking weak and wounded, now might be a good time to tell us what you believe in Keir.

 

[ml1dch]

4 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

You've been in charge for twenty months and your opponent is looking weak and wounded, now might be a good time to tell us what you believe in Keir.

You mean you didn't read the essay?

Spoiler

(don't worry, I know that nobody has read the essay)

 

[bickster]

7 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

You've been in charge for twenty months and your opponent is looking weak and wounded, now might be a good time to tell us what you believe in Keir.

 

I'm not sure it is the right time to be honest

If your enemy stands up above the trench and starts shooting himself. do you pop your head up and risk catching a stray bullet or just let him keep blasting away at himself

Just shout a bit of encouragement every now and again

[blandy]

13 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

You've been in charge for twenty months and your opponent is looking weak and wounded, now might be a good time to tell us what you believe in Keir.

 

Right now the papers and media are full of stories about Tory corruption, woes, cronyism and all the rest. Right now, like @bickstersays, stand well clear and chuck in the odd grenade.

You’re right that it needs to happen or be expanded upon, but in the short term he won’t get a hearing while the narrative is all about Bunter.

[OutByEaster?]

There's certainly some truth in that and you're both probably right.

What worries me is that with the working class Tory voters I see on my sociais and speak to, the people who bought in to Boris being tough on things and Corbyn being the great satan last time out, is that they are focused on Boris, but there's no positivity on Starmer - he's dismissed as "exactly the same" or "just agrees with him anyway". I think he could really benefit by emphasising their differences right now if he wants to win those voters - there's a wave of hatred for Boris from them, but it's very easily manipulated into a wave of hatred for 'politicians'.

You're both right about letting Boris roll in his own filth, and you're also right about words of encouragement and throwing in the odd grenade - but for that, it'd help those observers if he wore a different uniform so they could tell he's on the other side.

 

[ml1dch]

3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

What worries me is that with the working class Tory voters I see on my sociais and speak to, the people who bought in to Boris being tough on things and Corbyn being the great satan last time out, is that they are focused on Boris, but there's no positivity on Starmer - he's dismissed as "exactly the same" or "just agrees with him anyway". I think he could really benefit by emphasising their differences right now if he wants to win those voters - there's a wave of hatred for Boris from them, but it's very easily manipulated into a wave of hatred for 'politicians'.

You're both right about letting Boris roll in his own filth, and you're also right about words of encouragement and throwing in the odd grenade - but for that, it'd help those observers if he wore a different uniform so they could tell he's on the other side.

 

The problem is, we're not really in a position where he can differentiate himself on the one bit of policy that the country is really interested in.

The bit in bold is "agreeing with him on the need for public health measures to help stop the spread of Coronavirus". If he decides that he should vote against those measures (and those that went before) then it's (a) the wrong thing to do and (b) something that the people he is trying to appeal to won't thank him for. 

[blandy]

48 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

it'd help those observers if he wore a different uniform so they could tell he's on the other side.

I agree. I think he’s trying to do that bit, but the tarring of politicians as “they’re all the same” is not easily undone. I think this is where having a good team around a leader is a massive benefit. People with better immediate connection with the likes of your Facebook mates, or similar others. Those folk might see, say, Angela Rayner, or Lisa Nandy and might clock their messages because of the clear difference between them and, say, Mogg or Gove or whoever?

Starmer shouldn’t try and be something he’s not. He can portray an aura of attention to detail, of following the rules and law, of considered thinking and of a sense of “what’s right”. But he isn’t a tub thumping rabble rouser, he isn’t a flakey dreamer for Utopia. So he needs his team to add to what he has.

The tories have Bunter, and as you say, people have had the wool pulled from their eyes now. The rest of the Tory team are utterly lamentable Drones with no potential mass appeal at all, apart from Sunak, who seems carefully popular for reasons I don’t completely understand.  To me he’s just a shinier version of Phillip Hammond.

[Panto_Villan]

3 hours ago, blandy said:

I agree. I think he’s trying to do that bit, but the tarring of politicians as “they’re all the same” is not easily undone. I think this is where having a good team around a leader is a massive benefit. People with better immediate connection with the likes of your Facebook mates, or similar others. Those folk might see, say, Angela Rayner, or Lisa Nandy and might clock their messages because of the clear difference between them and, say, Mogg or Gove or whoever?

Starmer shouldn’t try and be something he’s not. He can portray an aura of attention to detail, of following the rules and law, of considered thinking and of a sense of “what’s right”. But he isn’t a tub thumping rabble rouser, he isn’t a flakey dreamer for Utopia. So he needs his team to add to what he has.

The tories have Bunter, and as you say, people have had the wool pulled from their eyes now. The rest of the Tory team are utterly lamentable Drones with no potential mass appeal at all, apart from Sunak, who seems carefully popular for reasons I don’t completely understand.  To me he’s just a shinier version of Phillip Hammond.

The appeal of Sunak and Hammond is economic competence and relative pragmatism without Boris’ populism, which I’m personally not fond of and I suspect a lot of hardcore Tories aren’t either (abeit for different reasons).

I guess a lot of the appeal overlaps with Starmer tbh. After an election of Corbyn vs Boris where there’s really no good outcome for the country (in my opinion), I’d be much happier if it was Starmer vs Sunak next time around as I don’t see either of them setting too many things on fire if they got into power.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Panto_Villan

[Mister_a]

31 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

if it was Starmer vs Sunak next time around as I don’t see either of them setting too many things on fire if they got into power.

I think politics would probably be more entertaining if they both set themselves on fire.

[blandy]

58 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

The appeal of Sunak and Hammond is economic competence and relative pragmatism without Boris’ populism, which I’m personally not fond of and I suspect a lot of hardcore Tories aren’t either.

I guess a lot of the appeal overlaps with Starmer tbh. After an election of Corbyn vs Boris where there’s really no good outcome for the country (in my opinion), I’d be much happier if it was Starmer vs Sunak next time around as I don’t see either of them setting too many things on fire if they got into power.

I agree Corbyn v Bunter was a terrible pair of options.

I think Labour's best chance now is for Bunter to stay leader of the baby eaters and whoever is Labour leader to fight him. The Tories changing leader again would allow them to present themselves as "fresh", rather than the ongoing 11 year clusterpork.

[Xann]

Starmer may be utter shit, but we're not going to be absolutely certain of that until nearer the election?

If any crowd pleasers/billionaire chokers are to come? Starmer may drop them late, so as to not let the press get a run on him.

I'm not confident btw, but it is a viable strategy.

He saw the sustained Jez as Joo hater campaign, and the way the gullible fell for it.

[Follyfoot]

1 hour ago, Mister_a said:

I think politics would probably be more entertaining if they both set themselves on fire.

naked mud wrestle to the death 

[chrisp65]

10 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

naked mud wrestle to the death 

 

 

Gen Charles C Krulak, VillaTalk, 2007:

Quote

When you get down in the mud and wrestle with a pig, the pig loves it - and you get muddy.

 

[Panto_Villan]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

I agree Corbyn v Bunter was a terrible pair of options.

I think Labour's best chance now is for Bunter to stay leader of the baby eaters and whoever is Labour leader to fight him. The Tories changing leader again would allow them to present themselves as "fresh", rather than the ongoing 11 year clusterpork.

Yeah, I agree Labour should want Boris to remain leader because it's their best chance of winning.

I was just noting that the silver lining of the Tories replacing him with someone more competent and less divisive is that if the Tories did win the next election we'd then have a PM that was more competent and less divisive than Boris ... but a Labour win would certainly be my preferred outcome.

[Wainy316]

Another MP passing away.  Husband of Harriet Harman.  I guess this be some VTers representative too...

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Wainy316

[icouldtelltheworld]

Erdington MP Jack Dromey has died- always found him to be a nice man a committed constituency MP. 

Will be an interesting by-election as Erdington has been a Tory target seat for a while.

[bickster]

59 minutes ago, icouldtelltheworld said:

Will be an interesting by-election as Erdington has been a Tory target seat for a while.

Sod knows why, even in Labour's worst election performance ever (2019) Labour still had over 50% of the votes (Tory 40%). It was actually Dromey's second highest number of votes since he took the seat (Highest was 2017)

I suspect the Tories targetted it under the false impression that all the UKIP votes would go to them (they didn't)

SInce it was formed in 1974, it has always had a Labour MP