Follyfoot Posted August 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9, 2020 40 minutes ago, bickster said: Was that my point? No it wasn't I refer you to my previous response So you never quoted that then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 9, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Follyfoot said: So you never quoted that then Actually read what was said beforehand, the point being made was not specifically about the Blair Government. You are countering a point that has zero to do with the conversation The state Ken Clarke left the economy in, is ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT to the debate that was being had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted August 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9, 2020 1 hour ago, meregreen said: Labour presided over the longest period of sustained prosperity in 200 years. If you think they inherited an economy on the up, you need to revisit that opinion. I lived through 18 ghastly years of Tory Government. They destroyed the industrial base of this country on the altar of monetarism. They believed the financial services sector was the future, that turned out well didn’t it. The reason those years were ghastly was because the country was broken behind recognition. Agreed what happened was not pleasant but it had to happen. Just check the figures for the three years before Blair’s election, They do not lie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted August 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9, 2020 52 minutes ago, bickster said: Translation: I'm alright Jack Again you are wrong. People including myself have been pulled up regarding the use of ‘anecdotal’ characters to add validity to their posts, I was just ensuring that practice was adhered to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted August 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, bickster said: Actually read what was said beforehand, the point being made was not specifically about the Blair Government. You are countering a point that has zero to do with the conversation The state Ken Clarke left the economy in, is ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT to the debate that was being had. Why bother sticking the reference in the post then if it is irrelevant and not open for response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 34 minutes ago, Only2McInallys said: If you want a centrist government PR will be perfect for it.if you are happy to see Nigel Farage and Tommy Robinson in House of Commons then let’s have PR because one major drawback is small extreme parties now have more power. I wouldn’t describe people's views being better represented as being a "major drawback". Besides, if the two you mention had found a seat in Parliament, maybe the Conservative party might have continued living up to its name and not felt the need to adopt their positions as party policy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 9, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 9, 2020 18 hours ago, Graham t said: I think you will find that 'older' voters have experienced a succession of Labour governments some years ago and have learned from that experience. Fortunately ( for them) younger voters have not had to endure this experience so are unaware of the pitfalls of voting labour. ATB, VLD. Was countered with this from Snowy 17 hours ago, snowychap said: Please could you tell us when this succession occurred? and this from me 7 hours ago, bickster said: Oh he is. There is a whole generation of brainwashed people like this, the only real succession of Labour governments since the war happened under Blair Love him or loathe him, the country as a whole was generally more prosperous at the end of his tenure than at the start. I mean look at the carnage the Tories have presided over in their time in their many successive governments These people also believe it when the Tories say they are the party of low taxation, it's utter horseshit not backed up by any analysis The bits in Bold are the crux of the Conversation The bit of mine in italics, is the proof that these "older people" did not learn from their experience, because they were better off at the end of THE ONLY successive Labour Govts since the war. What Ken Clarke may or may not have achieved a decade earlier is absolutely irrelevant to the point being countered which is about suffering under successive Labour Governments Hopefully now @Follyfoot you might understand why your wibble was absolutely irrelevant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham t Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 53 minutes ago, Only2McInallys said: I stated conservative with a small c not the party.I was talking about winning elections under the present system and how the Labour Party can become a government again.If it wants to win an election it will have to move to the centre . If you want a centrist government PR will be perfect for it.if you are happy to see Nigel Farage and Tommy Robinson in House of Commons then let’s have PR because one major drawback is small extreme parties now have more power. Some good points to consider, thanks. VLD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 3 hours ago, Follyfoot said: Forgive me for not getting emotional about anecdotal characters I don’t know. Of course you’re forgiven. Scorpions and frogs, innit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Follyfoot said: what happened was not pleasant but it had to happen No. No, it didn't. And that people think what happened was not just okay but necessary is grim beyond measure. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Graham t said: Work hard, use your brains and you can have all the success we have had.... This clearly indicates that you have no clue as to the point being made in the post you quoted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 9, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Only2McInallys said: .if you are happy to see Nigel Farage and Tommy Robinson in House of Commons then let’s have PR because one major drawback is small extreme parties now have more power. There wouldn't be much difference to having Steven Y-L or Farage in the commons to the Tories to be perfectly honest. same racism, same incompetance. I don't see that having a small number of different brands of word removeds would make much of a difference to what we have now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 9, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 9, 2020 39 minutes ago, snowychap said: No. No, it didn't. And that people think what happened was not just okay but necessary is grim beyond measure. Im alright Jack 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only2McInallys Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 1 hour ago, ml1dch said: I wouldn’t describe people's views being better represented as being a "major drawback". Besides, if the two you mention had found a seat in Parliament, maybe the Conservative party might have continued living up to its name and not felt the need to adopt their positions as party policy. Let’s not forget that Hilter came to power through PR 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted August 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9, 2020 1 hour ago, snowychap said: No. No, it didn't. And that people think what happened was not just okay but necessary is grim beyond measure. The unions had far too much power, As a satirical reference for those not around during those times have a look at Carry on at your convenience, It sums up the ‘everybody out’ mentality perfectly of the decade, The film although a parody was not a bad reflection of the times with the closed shop and unions holding the Country to ransom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: The unions had far too much power, As a satirical reference for those not around during those times have a look at Carry on at your convenience, It sums up the ‘everybody out’ mentality perfectly of the decade, The film although a parody was not a bad reflection of the times with the closed shop and unions holding the Country to ransom Don't assume that those who disagree with this kind of simplistic take on things weren't 'around during those times'. Not surprised that this 'not pleasant but had to happen' view is based on a 'unions holding the country to ransom' trope. Edited August 9, 2020 by snowychap 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted August 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, snowychap said: Don't assume that those who disagree with this kind of simplistic take on things weren't 'around during those times'. Not surprised that this 'not pleasant but had to happen' view is based on a 'unions holding the country to ransom' trope. I was not referring to you I was referring to anybody younger reading this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 9, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 9, 2020 25 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: The unions had far too much power, As a satirical reference for those not around during those times have a look at Carry on at your convenience, It sums up the ‘everybody out’ mentality perfectly of the decade, The film although a parody was not a bad reflection of the times with the closed shop and unions holding the Country to ransom So a comedy film released in 1970 foreshadowed Black Wednesday (1992) which had to happen because maggie said the Unions had too much power Yep, its all beginning to make sense Patrick Minford was barking mad then just as he is to this very day 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Carry On At Your Convenience? Did this thread just 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Only2McInallys said: Let’s not forget that Hilter came to power through PR Under FPTP his majority would have been much larger. He was initially under a coalition Govt. unfortunately his Conservative partners were outmanoeuvred by him. But as I say, under our system he would have been unleashed from day one. Not a good example for your argument. Edited August 9, 2020 by meregreen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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