Eames Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I think this is probably the most divided I have seen labour in my lifetime (i am only 32 years old). If I was UKIP or Lib Dems I would be trying to take advanatge of this. The SNP must be loving this secretly.The Labour Party just elected a leader with over 50% of the vote on the first ballot. That is almost unprecedented with a field of four candidates. The Labour Party itself is probably less divided than at most times in its history on that evidence.The media however will tell you differentlyClearly this is a semantic issue Dem is refering to the PLP as opposed to card carrying members or the £3 brigade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted October 19, 2015 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted October 19, 2015 I think this is probably the most divided I have seen labour in my lifetime (i am only 32 years old). If I was UKIP or Lib Dems I would be trying to take advanatge of this. The SNP must be loving this secretly.The Labour Party just elected a leader with over 50% of the vote on the first ballot. That is almost unprecedented with a field of four candidates. The Labour Party itself is probably less divided than at most times in its history on that evidence.The media however will tell you differentlyClearly this is a semantic issue Dem is refering to the PLP as opposed to card carrying members or the £3 brigade. That's exactly right. I'm kind of split too, in my view on it. On the one hand I kind of like that the Labour MPs (any MPs) that don't agree with a leader's line on something actually say so and vote so, rather than just being party drones. But on the other hand, the Labour party ( the members and so on) have for once found their consciences and been properly Labour, they've voted in someone as leader who's not a tory in disguise and these MPs are in a kind of denial and refusing to accept the reality and are carrying on as if Blair was still in charge of them. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I thought this weeks News Quiz on R4 summed up the current issues with the Labour leadership. Corbyn is running the party like a newly elected student union rep rather than a convincing candidate for Prime Minister summed the situation up rather well. Its a real shame that Labour's most politically credible and spiritually appropriate leader for a generation has the presentation of a geography teacher with questionable sexual preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) I think this is probably the most divided I have seen labour in my lifetime (i am only 32 years old). If I was UKIP or Lib Dems I would be trying to take advanatge of this. The SNP must be loving this secretly.The Labour Party just elected a leader with over 50% of the vote on the first ballot. That is almost unprecedented with a field of four candidates. The Labour Party itself is probably less divided than at most times in its history on that evidence.The media however will tell you differently the Parliamentary Party vote wasn't revealed but estimates are that he only secured around 10% of it .... doesn't that suggest a party with a split if 90% of his colleagues didn't back him .. that's before you factor in all those that refused to serve in his shadow cabinet and the 20 who voted against him on Syria (and 21 who went awol at the vote) I don't doubt the media are trying to paint a picture but to suggest Labour aren't a divided party is very strange ..VT's ( ex ) two most famous Labour supporters are even vocal about him killing the party on FB etc Edited October 19, 2015 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I think this is probably the most divided I have seen labour in my lifetime (i am only 32 years old). If I was UKIP or Lib Dems I would be trying to take advanatge of this. The SNP must be loving this secretly.The Labour Party just elected a leader with over 50% of the vote on the first ballot. That is almost unprecedented with a field of four candidates. The Labour Party itself is probably less divided than at most times in its history on that evidence.The media however will tell you differently the Parliamentary Party vote wasn't revealed but estimates are that he only secured around 10% of it .... doesn't that suggest a party with a split if 90% of his colleagues didn't back him .. that's before you factor in all those that refused to serve in his shadow cabinet and the 20 who voted against him on Syria (and 21 who went awol at the vote) I don't doubt the media are trying to paint a picture but to suggest Labour aren't a divided party is very strange ..VT's ( ex ) two most famous Labour supporters are even vocal about him killing the party on FB etc All of that will hopefully lead to a new kind of Labour Party. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I think this is probably the most divided I have seen labour in my lifetime (i am only 32 years old). If I was UKIP or Lib Dems I would be trying to take advanatge of this. The SNP must be loving this secretly.The Labour Party just elected a leader with over 50% of the vote on the first ballot. That is almost unprecedented with a field of four candidates. The Labour Party itself is probably less divided than at most times in its history on that evidence.The media however will tell you differently the Parliamentary Party vote wasn't revealed but estimates are that he only secured around 10% of it .... doesn't that suggest a party with a split if 90% of his colleagues didn't back him .. that's before you factor in all those that refused to serve in his shadow cabinet and the 20 who voted against him on Syria (and 21 who went awol at the vote) I don't doubt the media are trying to paint a picture but to suggest Labour aren't a divided party is very strange ..VT's ( ex ) two most famous Labour supporters are even vocal about him killing the party on FB etc All of that will hopefully lead to a new kind of Labour Party. Trouble is Blair didn't sell the Party's soul to the wider electorate - he sold it to business interests and the Murdoch press. There won't be a "new" kind of Labout Party, they've had a taste and liked governing too much and the way to do that is from the Centre. Far too many people in politics aren't ideologically pure - they're their to be in charge, run things and hopefully bank a few quid in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 It's 5 years to the next election. I'm fairly sure we can allow somebody 6 or 12 months to try something new.If he is still sounding reasonable when given a direct interview, if the tory party insist on taking away tax credits from people earning £4,000 a year having promised they were safe, well let's see the attitude of his light blue 'labour' MP's then. They are interested in power, they are interested in turning an easy £65k job into an easy £125k job.If the polls in 12 months start to show the affects of Osbourne's new poll tax moment, then we'll see MP's fall in to line and nod when they are told to nod.I don't think the tory press is quite ready for the alternative - personal opinions being expressed within an overall umbrella group. Way too grown up for the press boys. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 19, 2015 Moderator Share Posted October 19, 2015 I agree with that Chris, but even allowing for the "new approach" I don't think the leadership people (corbyn and MacDonald etc) are doing a particularly good job of leadering at the moment.They do seem to be pledging one thing then changing it round shortly afterwards quite a bit - obviously there was the pathetic Osbourne budget surplus idiocy that they decided to agree with then disagree with, but there's also trident and NATO and various other matters as well. They will need to work out where they stand a bit better.The tories are pretty split too on some things (not least leaving or staying in yurp), but they're also getting twitchy about eating the poor, where it threatens their seats.So like Eames says (I paraphrase massively) most MPs are twunts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 It's 5 years to the next election. I'm fairly sure we can allow somebody 6 or 12 months to try something new.If he is still sounding reasonable when given a direct interview, if the tory party insist on taking away tax credits from people earning £4,000 a year having promised they were safe, well let's see the attitude of his light blue 'labour' MP's then. They are interested in power, they are interested in turning an easy £65k job into an easy £125k job.If the polls in 12 months start to show the affects of Osbourne's new poll tax moment, then we'll see MP's fall in to line and nod when they are told to nod.I don't think the tory press is quite ready for the alternative - personal opinions being expressed within an overall umbrella group. Way too grown up for the press boys.that's all fair enough..... but that wasn't the claim though ... the claim was that they aren't a divided party and it was just a media conspiracy (least it was in the post I replied to ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I thought this weeks News Quiz on R4 summed up the current issues with the Labour leadership. Corbyn is running the party like a newly elected student union rep rather than a convincing candidate for Prime Minister summed the situation up rather well. Its a real shame that Labour's most politically credible and spiritually appropriate leader for a generation has the presentation of a geography teacher with questionable sexual preferences. The messiah still secured less of the vote first time around than Neil Kinnock and John Smith who secured 90% of all first round preferences (though of course the election was rigged differently in those days ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 VT's ( ex ) two most famous Labour supporters are even vocal about him killing the party on FB etc I'm really not sure about the relevance of the two Ians' opinion(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 19, 2015 Moderator Share Posted October 19, 2015 I don't think the tory press is quite ready for the alternative - personal opinions being expressed within an overall umbrella group. Way too grown up for the press boys.Actually this line is worth another reply. You're right of course - the Torygraph is really going for him - every time I look at their website it has a couple of new "stories" accompanying a photo of him where his arm is raised (so it looks like a nazi salute) and the "stories" themselves are how he is best mates with Hamas and the IRA and all kinds of ne'er do wells - but it's so ridiculously OTT that like Cameron's "he's a threat to the nation" bollex it'll end up backfiring with people who aren't rabid believers in the cult of osborne and cameron. And christ knows what the heil has been printing - I wouldn't sully my computer with its pages.But the other thing is that most labour MPs also aren't ready for "the alternative" (nor are the tories). It's so ingrained in them all to behave like tribal numpties that they can't seem to cope or understand or to modify their own behaviours. I hope that Corbyn manages to lift the overall level of behaviour and doesn't himself get dragged down into stupid name calling in parliament and so on.I don't imagine the tories will be able to resist, really as they will see it as in their interest to just have them and their papers continually represent him as a mortal danger to everything and everyone except swivel eyed loons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 19, 2015 Moderator Share Posted October 19, 2015 VT's ( ex ) two most famous Labour supporters are even vocal about him killing the party on FB etc I'm really not sure about the relevance of the two Ians' opinion(s). or indeed Facebook 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 VT's ( ex ) two most famous Labour supporters are even vocal about him killing the party on FB etc I'm really not sure about the relevance of the two Ians' opinion(s). or indeed Facebook meh ..if the aforementioned examples who may or may not be called Ian are against him then that conclusively proves there isn't party unity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 They will need to work out where they stand a bit better. They've been in the job about 3 minutes Pete. I'd imagine it's a big learning curve for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Lord Warner resigns Labour whip, saying party is 'no longer credible' Norman Warner, a Labour health minister between 2003 and 2007, became the first Jeremy Corbyn-era Labour parliamentarian to resign the whip, saying Labour is no longer “a credible party of government-in-waiting”....more on link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 “He voted with the Tories a couple of years ago under the last Labour leadership to privatise parts of the NHS,” he said on BBC’s Newsnight.As some have said same politicians just different colour ties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Lord Warner resigns Labour whip, saying party is 'no longer credible' Norman Warner, a Labour health minister between 2003 and 2007, became the first Jeremy Corbyn-era Labour parliamentarian to resign the whip, saying Labour is no longer “a credible party of government-in-waiting”....more on linkLooks like Jez is doing something right then. It's about time we rid the party of these insurgent tories. Next up, Hunt and Kendall. Please call a by election, and cross the floor to your natural home. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Lord Warner resigns Labour whip, saying party is 'no longer credible' Norman Warner, a Labour health minister between 2003 and 2007, became the first Jeremy Corbyn-era Labour parliamentarian to resign the whip, saying Labour is no longer “a credible party of government-in-waiting”....more on linkMore evidence that Labour is indeed "United" "Jags" Jezza seemed a bit bitter about it didn't he .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Less divided than at most times in its history on that evidence (which was Bicks's retort to Dem) does not equal united.I'd be very worried about any political party of more than one person that was 'united'. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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