useless Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Oyston is that bad that I'd say it's actually offensive to Tan and Ashley to put them in the same bracket as him. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_Villain Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 We should judge him by who he sells to. After spending 200 million of his own money and seeing "Lerner Out" banners held up by fans, you'd forgive him for flogging the club to the first half broke loan shark with a leveraged buyout deal. It's really to his great credit that he probably isn't going to do such a thing. He hasn't JUST spent 200m and that is all though, has he? That is half the story and the rest is a nightmare - caused by his own doing - not the fans who have suffered. The thing is that it's not about who your owner actually is, but how much money they're willing to throw at their team. If he chucked more money at the problem and we finished 10th rather than 16th in the last 4 seasons, people would be far more forgiving of Lerner - despite Aston Villa being in a far worse financial state. People are actually calling for an oil baron to be our next owner. It's a huge shame. I don't expect millions to be spent, but I also do not expect us to face such terrible cuts, a manager appointed who just relegated our neighbours and to then give a four year contract to a manager who has broken so many unwanted records. As for the cuts, we are told that it has to happen as we were living above our means (spending was 6th on wages, jeesh), so the chairman who came in without a plan, threw money at nothing and then got the chills. HE made the decisions, nobody else. He was to blame, he is to blame and he should absolutely get stick from the fans. It seems he agrees too - that he got a lot wrong. And fair play to him. We won't face terrible cuts again... unless the next owner comes in and overspends, of course. The rest of your first paragraph is narrative that doesn't mean anything. Managerial appointments not being correct? This happens all the time! I would assume the initial plan was to spend big and achieve CL football. We almost did this. Of course, almost isn't good enough so we were lumbered with huge costs and slid down the league, as per every single football club that has taken this approach before and failed (oil baron clubs aside). The difference being that we haven't been relegated and are now operating on steady footing. Lerner's fault? Absolutely. I blame him more than anyone for the state the club got into. However, I also believe he has the clubs' interests at heart and that the drastic cuts were necessary. As I put originally, if he continued to pump money into the club and we finished 10th rather than 16th for 4 seasons, people would be far more forgiving of Lerner - yet it would've been much worse for Aston Villa as a club. Whilst tough as a spectacle, I appreciate that. He just doesn't deserve dogs abuse for me. He messed up, corrected the situation and leaves (potentially) with the club in a decent state. He also gave us the best footballing years that I can remember (I'm relatively young ). Again, we could've had a much worse owner. He is/was a billionaire... He was never short of a few quid ever; he even sold an NFL franchise during the time he has been our clubs custodian... but when Man City came in and changed the playing field, instead of treating it as a new challenge and putting his money where his mouth was; he shat his pants, bottled it and closed his wallet... Therein came the inevitable tumble down the league table year upon year... It is most definitely his fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Without wanting to reheat a load of recent history, it seems to me that 'always want[ing] what's best for the club' seems to me to be pretty much a minimal **** requirement for the chairman of that club.It should be. But then you do get owners out there like Mike Ashley, Oyston and Tan Under Ashley, Newcastle have spent 200m+, which makes him a decent chairman. Apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danwichmann Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Without wanting to reheat a load of recent history, it seems to me that 'always want[ing] what's best for the club' seems to me to be pretty much a minimal **** requirement for the chairman of that club. As well as the mentioned Tan, Ashley etc, there are others who treat their club's only as business or for short term profit. It should be a minimum but plenty fall below that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BOF Posted May 28, 2015 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted May 28, 2015 Under Ashley, Newcastle have spent 200m+, which makes him a decent chairman. Apparently. I think if you were to look at Newcastle objectively you'll find that Ashley probably isn't the big meanie that the media and the fans like to portray. Newcastle's problem starts and ends with their fans. The fans have completely unrealistic expectations for their shithole club and whenever those expectations aren't met (i.e. every. ****. season.) then they hound out the manager or moan about the chairman who must obviously not be doing enough to meet their delusions. Ashley has spent money as you say. He also had a decent manager in place until the fans chased him away. Of course Ashley has made mistakes. Maybe more than most, I don't know. But when you have fans waiting to explode and you have a media who do seem more than willing to paint him as the villain then you end up with a very carefully constructed perception of a bumbling idiot which is the only depiction the rest of us ever see. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted May 28, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted May 28, 2015 Very true, BOF. And yet people wonder why Randy isn't more public in the media..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Very true, BOF. And yet people wonder why Randy isn't more public in the media..... Apparently due to the media in America and how they dealt with the death of a child family member.. Not anything related to Mike Ashkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted May 28, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted May 28, 2015 Apparently due to the media in America and how they dealt with the death of a child family member.. Not anything related to Mike Ashkey. Thanks for the clarification. Still... any owner would be asking for trouble having a big media presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jordanderve Posted May 28, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted May 28, 2015 We should judge him by who he sells to. After spending 200 million of his own money and seeing "Lerner Out" banners held up by fans, you'd forgive him for flogging the club to the first half broke loan shark with a leveraged buyout deal. It's really to his great credit that he probably isn't going to do such a thing. He hasn't JUST spent 200m and that is all though, has he? That is half the story and the rest is a nightmare - caused by his own doing - not the fans who have suffered. The thing is that it's not about who your owner actually is, but how much money they're willing to throw at their team. If he chucked more money at the problem and we finished 10th rather than 16th in the last 4 seasons, people would be far more forgiving of Lerner - despite Aston Villa being in a far worse financial state. People are actually calling for an oil baron to be our next owner. It's a huge shame. I don't expect millions to be spent, but I also do not expect us to face such terrible cuts, a manager appointed who just relegated our neighbours and to then give a four year contract to a manager who has broken so many unwanted records. As for the cuts, we are told that it has to happen as we were living above our means (spending was 6th on wages, jeesh), so the chairman who came in without a plan, threw money at nothing and then got the chills. HE made the decisions, nobody else. He was to blame, he is to blame and he should absolutely get stick from the fans. It seems he agrees too - that he got a lot wrong. And fair play to him. We won't face terrible cuts again... unless the next owner comes in and overspends, of course. The rest of your first paragraph is narrative that doesn't mean anything. Managerial appointments not being correct? This happens all the time! I would assume the initial plan was to spend big and achieve CL football. We almost did this. Of course, almost isn't good enough so we were lumbered with huge costs and slid down the league, as per every single football club that has taken this approach before and failed (oil baron clubs aside). The difference being that we haven't been relegated and are now operating on steady footing. Lerner's fault? Absolutely. I blame him more than anyone for the state the club got into. However, I also believe he has the clubs' interests at heart and that the drastic cuts were necessary. As I put originally, if he continued to pump money into the club and we finished 10th rather than 16th for 4 seasons, people would be far more forgiving of Lerner - yet it would've been much worse for Aston Villa as a club. Whilst tough as a spectacle, I appreciate that. He just doesn't deserve dogs abuse for me. He messed up, corrected the situation and leaves (potentially) with the club in a decent state. He also gave us the best footballing years that I can remember (I'm relatively young ). Again, we could've had a much worse owner. He is/was a billionaire... He was never short of a few quid ever; he even sold an NFL franchise during the time he has been our clubs custodian... but when Man City came in and changed the playing field, instead of treating it as a new challenge and putting his money where his mouth was; he shat his pants, bottled it and closed his wallet... Therein came the inevitable tumble down the league table year upon year... It is most definitely his fault He was a $Billionaire (just) when he took over and was worth approx £900m (this included his NFL franchise). After taking us over, he spent £300m on Villa (a third of his wealth), went through a recession which badly hit his businesses and got divorced. It is astonishing how people band around the billionaire tag and think that money is no object. He has spent a massive proportion of his wealth on our football club. It sounds as though you have balls of steel so would you give up a third of your wealth to invest in something and not get a twitchy a$*e as you see your overall value plummet? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Under Ashley, Newcastle have spent 200m+, which makes him a decent chairman. Apparently. I think if you were to look at Newcastle objectively you'll find that Ashley probably isn't the big meanie that the media and the fans like to portray. Newcastle's problem starts and ends with their fans. The fans have completely unrealistic expectations for their shithole club and whenever those expectations aren't met (i.e. every. ****. season.) then they hound out the manager or moan about the chairman who must obviously not be doing enough to meet their delusions. Ashley has spent money as you say. He also had a decent manager in place until the fans chased him away. Of course Ashley has made mistakes. Maybe more than most, I don't know. But when you have fans waiting to explode and you have a media who do seem more than willing to paint him as the villain then you end up with a very carefully constructed perception of a bumbling idiot which is the only depiction the rest of us ever see. Many thousands of times this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Under Ashley, Newcastle have spent 200m+, which makes him a decent chairman. Apparently. I think if you were to look at Newcastle objectively you'll find that Ashley probably isn't the big meanie that the media and the fans like to portray. Newcastle's problem starts and ends with their fans. The fans have completely unrealistic expectations for their shithole club and whenever those expectations aren't met (i.e. every. ****. season.) then they hound out the manager or moan about the chairman who must obviously not be doing enough to meet their delusions. Ashley has spent money as you say. He also had a decent manager in place until the fans chased him away. Of course Ashley has made mistakes. Maybe more than most, I don't know. But when you have fans waiting to explode and you have a media who do seem more than willing to paint him as the villain then you end up with a very carefully constructed perception of a bumbling idiot which is the only depiction the rest of us ever see. Yep. Ashley has made mistakes. Unsurprisingly, his biggest mistakes are giving in to what the fans want (Keegan/Shearer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dn1982 Posted May 28, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted May 28, 2015 Can people stop looking at things objectively and go back to wild accusations please. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 It's not as simple as "Man City came along". The Premier League announced there would be a vote on new FFP rules and that vote took place in February 2013. The wheels for those rules were put into motion early in 2012 iirc (might have been earlier), so not only did the club have the issue of over paid shite hanging around for too long and sucking money out the club, and other players having little to no resale value, we also had to consider any future spending/planning and cost cutting with PL FFP in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikantcpell Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Under Ashley, Newcastle have spent 200m+, which makes him a decent chairman. Apparently. I think if you were to look at Newcastle objectively you'll find that Ashley probably isn't the big meanie that the media and the fans like to portray. Newcastle's problem starts and ends with their fans. The fans have completely unrealistic expectations for their shithole club and whenever those expectations aren't met (i.e. every. ****. season.) then they hound out the manager or moan about the chairman who must obviously not be doing enough to meet their delusions. Ashley has spent money as you say. He also had a decent manager in place until the fans chased him away. Of course Ashley has made mistakes. Maybe more than most, I don't know. But when you have fans waiting to explode and you have a media who do seem more than willing to paint him as the villain then you end up with a very carefully constructed perception of a bumbling idiot which is the only depiction the rest of us ever see. They are more deluded then the red scouse supporters, They seem to think they have a realistic chance of getting Jurgen Klopp as thier new manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanderve Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Under Ashley, Newcastle have spent 200m+, which makes him a decent chairman. Apparently. I think if you were to look at Newcastle objectively you'll find that Ashley probably isn't the big meanie that the media and the fans like to portray. Newcastle's problem starts and ends with their fans. The fans have completely unrealistic expectations for their shithole club and whenever those expectations aren't met (i.e. every. ****. season.) then they hound out the manager or moan about the chairman who must obviously not be doing enough to meet their delusions. Ashley has spent money as you say. He also had a decent manager in place until the fans chased him away. Of course Ashley has made mistakes. Maybe more than most, I don't know. But when you have fans waiting to explode and you have a media who do seem more than willing to paint him as the villain then you end up with a very carefully constructed perception of a bumbling idiot which is the only depiction the rest of us ever see. They are more deluded then the red scouse supporters, They seem to think they have a realistic chance of getting Jurgen Klopp as thier new manager I completely agree that Newcastle are among the most deluded fans in the entire world. In fact, I really really dislike Newcastle (up there with Liverpool for me!) but Mike Ashley has not spent £200m+. His net spend is approx -£20m during his tenure. To compare Ashley to Lerner is ridiculous. Lerner has invested that money, it has not been generated by the club. If Ashley was £200m down on transfers, he probably would be deemed a good chairman, yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Under Ashley, Newcastle have spent 200m+, which makes him a decent chairman. Apparently. I think if you were to look at Newcastle objectively you'll find that Ashley probably isn't the big meanie that the media and the fans like to portray. Newcastle's problem starts and ends with their fans. The fans have completely unrealistic expectations for their shithole club and whenever those expectations aren't met (i.e. every. ****. season.) then they hound out the manager or moan about the chairman who must obviously not be doing enough to meet their delusions. Ashley has spent money as you say. He also had a decent manager in place until the fans chased him away. Of course Ashley has made mistakes. Maybe more than most, I don't know. But when you have fans waiting to explode and you have a media who do seem more than willing to paint him as the villain then you end up with a very carefully constructed perception of a bumbling idiot which is the only depiction the rest of us ever see. I know I'm going to get crap for this, but couldn't this be describing our fans too? Obviously not the shithole club bit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Under Ashley, Newcastle have spent 200m+, which makes him a decent chairman. Apparently. I think if you were to look at Newcastle objectively you'll find that Ashley probably isn't the big meanie that the media and the fans like to portray. Newcastle's problem starts and ends with their fans. The fans have completely unrealistic expectations for their shithole club and whenever those expectations aren't met (i.e. every. ****. season.) then they hound out the manager or moan about the chairman who must obviously not be doing enough to meet their delusions. Ashley has spent money as you say. He also had a decent manager in place until the fans chased him away. Of course Ashley has made mistakes. Maybe more than most, I don't know. But when you have fans waiting to explode and you have a media who do seem more than willing to paint him as the villain then you end up with a very carefully constructed perception of a bumbling idiot which is the only depiction the rest of us ever see. I know I'm going to get crap for this, but couldn't this be describing our fans too? Obviously not the shithole club bit. Sort of... but no. I think some of the expectations (or, moreso, the "big club that won the European cup" part) can be overheightened but we're a relatively patient fan base on the whole. Managers have only been turned on when they've performed badly and/or are Alex McLeish. Similarly, Lerner's stick for not spending was valid - but justified in relation to his overspending initially. i.e: He ran the club badly. With Ashley, my feeling is that the stick for not spending is because he's lining his pockets rather than investing in the team. Newcastle have been profitable for a wee while now afaik, and fans want to see some of that spent on players when the team is underperforming. But the fans are very knee-jerk and expect far too much. It's not the case at Villa to the same extent. The "over expectant" fans here would probably expect us to finish 8th or above. Newcastle fans want Europe and cup wins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 + Randy didn't re-name Villa Park the Tracksuit Arena so that's a bonus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Field Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) We should judge him by who he sells to. After spending 200 million of his own money and seeing "Lerner Out" banners held up by fans, you'd forgive him for flogging the club to the first half broke loan shark with a leveraged buyout deal. It's really to his great credit that he probably isn't going to do such a thing. He hasn't JUST spent 200m and that is all though, has he? That is half the story and the rest is a nightmare - caused by his own doing - not the fans who have suffered. The thing is that it's not about who your owner actually is, but how much money they're willing to throw at their team. If he chucked more money at the problem and we finished 10th rather than 16th in the last 4 seasons, people would be far more forgiving of Lerner - despite Aston Villa being in a far worse financial state. People are actually calling for an oil baron to be our next owner. It's a huge shame. I don't expect millions to be spent, but I also do not expect us to face such terrible cuts, a manager appointed who just relegated our neighbours and to then give a four year contract to a manager who has broken so many unwanted records. As for the cuts, we are told that it has to happen as we were living above our means (spending was 6th on wages, jeesh), so the chairman who came in without a plan, threw money at nothing and then got the chills. HE made the decisions, nobody else. He was to blame, he is to blame and he should absolutely get stick from the fans. It seems he agrees too - that he got a lot wrong. And fair play to him. We won't face terrible cuts again... unless the next owner comes in and overspends, of course. The rest of your first paragraph is narrative that doesn't mean anything. Managerial appointments not being correct? This happens all the time! I would assume the initial plan was to spend big and achieve CL football. We almost did this. Of course, almost isn't good enough so we were lumbered with huge costs and slid down the league, as per every single football club that has taken this approach before and failed (oil baron clubs aside). The difference being that we haven't been relegated and are now operating on steady footing. Lerner's fault? Absolutely. I blame him more than anyone for the state the club got into. However, I also believe he has the clubs' interests at heart and that the drastic cuts were necessary. As I put originally, if he continued to pump money into the club and we finished 10th rather than 16th for 4 seasons, people would be far more forgiving of Lerner - yet it would've been much worse for Aston Villa as a club. Whilst tough as a spectacle, I appreciate that. He just doesn't deserve dogs abuse for me. He messed up, corrected the situation and leaves (potentially) with the club in a decent state. He also gave us the best footballing years that I can remember (I'm relatively young ). Again, we could've had a much worse owner. He is/was a billionaire... He was never short of a few quid ever; he even sold an NFL franchise during the time he has been our clubs custodian... but when Man City came in and changed the playing field, instead of treating it as a new challenge and putting his money where his mouth was; he shat his pants, bottled it and closed his wallet... Therein came the inevitable tumble down the league table year upon year... It is most definitely his fault Comparing Lerner to Sheikh Mansour is like comparing me to Lerner. Lerner was worth about £900m vs Mansours £20 billion + his entire family pumping in advertising money. Lerner Spent a hell of a lot of money and a lot more than most £900m worth people would do. There is also a thing called FFP (which meant continuing spending until we went bankrupt or make drastic changes). His only problems so far is that he took a gamble that failed and not hiring people like Tom Fox early enough. And as someone mentioned, he does not owe Villa anything, but still he tries to find the best solution for the club instead of just selling to anyone who bids. And as far as I understand it, he does not want any of his £200m back from the club. Edited May 28, 2015 by Chicken Field 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TRO Posted May 28, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) In an Article in the Birmingham Mail this evening Lerner is quite critical of himself and says he admits he is not up to the job....Hence his appointment of Tom Fox and the pending appointment of a New Chairman. He also goes on the say that he has come close to selling it but factors such as the prospective new owners having sufficient funds to move the club forward and embracing the fabric of the club in the community was central to his conditions and considerations for sale. He also admits that his absence has not helped and explains his commitments are divided across the pond....he was quite unequivical in his own condemnation. Reading the piece I got the impression he is more of a fan than an owner he was reluctant to criticise fans criticism of him and in cases agreed ,but said never the less it hurts. It seems like he has similar concerns of any new owners financial intentions as HDE had...which I welcome. He seemed very transparent in his own critique....Something Sepp Blatter would do well to learn from. I think Randy whilst making many mistakes did so with the best intentions that simply did'nt work out for him. Edited May 28, 2015 by TRO 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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