Popular Post markavfc40 Posted March 17, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2015 I think Sherwood is doing a really good job so far, very impressed, but I don't think that should detract from everything Lambert has done for the club. What is that and how is it relevant to Tim Sherwood? Saved us from relegation twice and left us with as a good of a squad that could have been expected given the budget he was afforded, during very difficult times for the club and in a period when any manager would have struggled to do much better. It's relevant to Sherwood because I don't think that just because he's won a few matches it means that Lambert is/was a bad Manager. When did us avoiding relegation under Lambert become an achievement he should be praised for? We can all see things differently of course but the way I saw it was that he inherited a squad the season before that had just avoided relegation with 38 points. He added to that squad and the expectation was that we should at the very least maintain our top flight status. We achieved that with 42 points. The next season he again added to the squad and the expectation was that we should again at the very least avoid relegation and perhaps kick on slightly. We avoided relegation on 38 points but failed to kick on in fact going backwards. This season he again added to the squad, bringing in a number of players with the top level experience many of us felt we were lacking. The expectation for me was that it was a squad that should finish mid - lower table and not be embroiled in another relegation battle. This season Lambert therefore didn't just fail he failed miserably. I haven't of course mentioned the standard of football served up which could be at best described as poor and in addition for the last 18 months of his time here overly negative. The one area he did well in was player recruitment but unfortunately that meant next to f**k all as he didn't have a clue how to get the best out of them. Bringing this back on topic when you think of how excruciatingly dire we were under Lambert for most of this season it is absolutely remarkable how quickly Sherwood has gotten these players to turn in the recent performances they have and how quickly he has integrated a style of play and formation that gets the best out of them. The squad was always way better on paper than results and performances suggested but due to the failings of his predecessor Sherwood inherited a squad not just underachieving but totally devoid of any confidence and more concerned with how not to lose a game than how to win it. For seemingly turning that around so quickly is some going and if it continues and gets us to safety then Sherwood will fully deserve any and all praise that comes his way. 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Lambert WAS a bad manager. The worst I've seen, and I include Billy McNeill in that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 We **** our pitch invasion up buy coming on when Sinclair scored, then coming on again in injury time, then coming on again after the whistle. If the fans had only invaded the pitch after the final whistle no one would have made anything of it. Absolutely. But the actions of about 100 idiots should not be allowed to sour the enjoyment of a further 32,000. Except that it was, and not just by the media. I, personally, am still angry at certain comments aimed at those who were on the pitch after the final whistle. Comments on this very website that were not challenged nearly enough in my opinion. I agree. The complete over-reaction by not only Villa fans on here, but fans from every club was just strange. Anyone on the pitch before the final whistle, I understand the criticism. But some of the comments made about fans being on the pitch after the game had finished was completely ridiculous. I'm not really entirely sure why one is better than the other? Don't invade the pitch. Rocket science, it isn't. Because celebrating on the pitch is completely different to running on the pitch while a game is still in play. The primary concern - I'd assume - with a pitch invasion is that the playing staff aren't safe. Is there any difference between this happening during a game (whilst players are on the pitch) or immediately after a game (whilst players are on the pitch)? We **** our pitch invasion up buy coming on when Sinclair scored, then coming on again in injury time, then coming on again after the whistle. If the fans had only invaded the pitch after the final whistle no one would have made anything of it. Absolutely. But the actions of about 100 idiots should not be allowed to sour the enjoyment of a further 32,000. Except that it was, and not just by the media. I, personally, am still angry at certain comments aimed at those who were on the pitch after the final whistle. Comments on this very website that were not challenged nearly enough in my opinion. I agree. The complete over-reaction by not only Villa fans on here, but fans from every club was just strange. Anyone on the pitch before the final whistle, I understand the criticism. But some of the comments made about fans being on the pitch after the game had finished was completely ridiculous. I'm not really entirely sure why one is better than the other? Don't invade the pitch. Rocket science, it isn't. Again, what the **** has intelligence got to do with it? Perhaps people don't understand "don't invade the pitch"? Thus, intelligence issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Lambert WAS a bad manager. The worst I've seen, and I include Billy McNeill in that. I started going to Villa Park as a season ticket holder with my dad the year we got relegated, that season was awful and there has been a few others along the way like the season with Venglos and the one with with McLeish stick out, Taylor MK2 was crap also but I think Lambert wins hands down when it comes to serving up utter bollocks football and total lack of direction. The club was in turmoil on and off the field, people say more of the blame lies with Lerner but Lambert's mis-management of virtually everything nearly ruined us. I was pleased when Sherwood joined as I always liked him at Spurs as he seemed to have something about him. It still staggers me when I look at the perfomances of Lowton, Cleverley, Nzogbia and Agbonlahor over the last few weeks, I can't believe how different they have looked. The players look like they want to go and win games and have a go, I would also say Lambert was the worst the manger I have seen in almost 30 years of watching Villa play. On the other hand for what it's worth even though it's early days I do honestly think Sherwood may well turn out to be a real gem. I like the way the team plays, I like what he has done with the backroom staff and I love listening to Sherwood speak in interviews, he actually makes me excited to be a Villa fan again and it's been a long time since I felt like this. Fantastic appointment IMO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I think Sherwood is doing a really good job so far, very impressed, but I don't think that should detract from everything Lambert has done for the club. What is that and how is it relevant to Tim Sherwood? Saved us from relegation twice and left us with as a good of a squad that could have been expected given the budget he was afforded, during very difficult times for the club and in a period when any manager would have struggled to do much better. It's relevant to Sherwood because I don't think that just because he's won a few matches it means that Lambert is/was a bad Manager. When did us avoiding relegation under Lambert become an achievement he should be praised for? We can all see things differently of course but the way I saw it was that he inherited a squad the season before that had just avoided relegation with 38 points. He added to that squad and the expectation was that we should at the very least maintain our top flight status. We achieved that with 42 points. The next season he again added to the squad and the expectation was that we should again at the very least avoid relegation and perhaps kick on slightly. We avoided relegation on 38 points but failed to kick on in fact going backwards. This season he again added to the squad, bringing in a number of players with the top level experience many of us felt we were lacking. The expectation for me was that it was a squad that should finish mid - lower table and not be embroiled in another relegation battle. This season Lambert therefore didn't just fail he failed miserably. I haven't of course mentioned the standard of football served up which could be at best described as poor and in addition for the last 18 months of his time here overly negative. The one area he did well in was player recruitment but unfortunately that meant next to f**k all as he didn't have a clue how to get the best out of them. Bringing this back on topic when you think of how excruciatingly dire we were under Lambert for most of this season it is absolutely remarkable how quickly Sherwood has gotten these players to turn in the recent performances they have and how quickly he has integrated a style of play and formation that gets the best out of them. The squad was always way better on paper than results and performances suggested but due to the failings of his predecessor Sherwood inherited a squad not just underachieving but totally devoid of any confidence and more concerned with how not to lose a game than how to win it. For seemingly turning that around so quickly is some going and if it continues and gets us to safety then Sherwood will fully deserve any and all praise that comes his way. What makes you think Tim Sherwood would have been able to come in post Alex McLeish, only able to sign players for small fees and (crucially) on wages well below par for the Premier League, and turned them into a side that could stay up two seasons running? Massive assumption IMO - it was a tough brief and many would have failed. This isn't the Paul Lambert thread, but he did a decent enough job for two years under extremely trying circumstances. This season we should have kicked on, but he failed miserably to take us forward and we're now in a much better place under Sherwood. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) What makes you think Tim Sherwood would have been able to come in post Alex McLeish, only able to sign players for small fees and (crucially) on wages well below par for the Premier League, and turned them into a side that could stay up two seasons running? Nothing makes me think that as I haven't said that he could. What I would say is this. Lambert inherited a squad that had stayed up the previous season and his predecessor was sacked on the basis that just surviving was not seen as good enough. Lambert then took that squad that had stayed up the previous season, added to it, and I think it is reasonable to assume that the minmum expectation was that we should avoid relegation not that avoiding relegation would be seen as some achievement. Edited March 17, 2015 by markavfc40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I think that ignores the brief of cutting back on the squad whilst only being able to add to it with at least one hand tied behind his back. It wasn't a remarkable achievement to keep us up but it was an achievement nonetheless. No manager in recent times has had to deal with the circumstances that he had to deal with. As such I don't see Lambert as total failure at all, even though this season was a total failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Patrick I have always acknowledged that Lambert given the financial constraints did very well in terms of player recruitment. This season though, and to a lesser extent last season, he failed to get anything like the best out of them. In fact this season he couldn't have had them playing any worse. Trying to get back on topic Sherwood it so far appears is capable of getting the best out of them and long may that continue. Edited March 17, 2015 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Agreed Mark - I don't want this thread to be waylaid, but I would argue that many managers would have struggled with the constrained player recruitment part of the job, and could have easily taken us down as a result. Whether that's an achievement or not is up to other people to decide. For me it is. Certainly Lambert wasn't getting the most out of them as you say. This term has been (pre-Sherwood) the worst I can remember, including McLeish, but there's no way Lambert was a worse manager or did a worse job overall. Anyway, I think both of us are glad it's over. Onwards and upwards! Edited March 17, 2015 by PatrickCousens 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I think that ignores the brief of cutting back on the squad whilst only being able to add to it with at least one hand tied behind his back. It wasn't a remarkable achievement to keep us up but it was an achievement nonetheless. No manager in recent times has had to deal with the circumstances that he had to deal with. As such I don't see Lambert as total failure at all, even though this season was a total failure. Cutting the wage-bill doesn't mean that he wasn't able to use the high-earners whilst they remained in employment here. In his first season, he effectively had the same strength squad as McLeish and therefore it wasn't an achievement to keep them up.To describe it as that would indicate that we finished ahead of teams which we really had no right to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 PL underachieved with the squad he had assembled he became too negative and wasn't the same bloke we got from Norwich. Sherwood has come in and got the players playing with the freedom and attacking flair that we knew we had. PL is credited with being good with the recruitment side now we did bring in the players whilst he was manager but how much was him and how much was Reilly? (Riley) I think we will find this out in the summer I've a feeling it will be the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted March 17, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted March 17, 2015 Can we have a Lambert amnesty please, we've all discussed the whole saga to death now? Let's just look forward, instead of backwards. I'm feeling a lot more hopeful recently, and there's no need to keep harking back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikantcpell Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I think Sherwood is doing a really good job so far, very impressed, but I don't think that should detract from everything Lambert has done for the club. What is that and how is it relevant to Tim Sherwood? Saved us from relegation twice and left us with as a good of a squad that could have been expected given the budget he was afforded, during very difficult times for the club and in a period when any manager would have struggled to do much better. It's relevant to Sherwood because I don't think that just because he's won a few matches it means that Lambert is/was a bad Manager. When did us avoiding relegation under Lambert become an achievement he should be praised for? We can all see things differently of course but the way I saw it was that he inherited a squad the season before that had just avoided relegation with 38 points. He added to that squad and the expectation was that we should at the very least maintain our top flight status. We achieved that with 42 points. The next season he again added to the squad and the expectation was that we should again at the very least avoid relegation and perhaps kick on slightly. We avoided relegation on 38 points but failed to kick on in fact going backwards. This season he again added to the squad, bringing in a number of players with the top level experience many of us felt we were lacking. The expectation for me was that it was a squad that should finish mid - lower table and not be embroiled in another relegation battle. This season Lambert therefore didn't just fail he failed miserably. I haven't of course mentioned the standard of football served up which could be at best described as poor and in addition for the last 18 months of his time here overly negative. The one area he did well in was player recruitment but unfortunately that meant next to f**k all as he didn't have a clue how to get the best out of them. Bringing this back on topic when you think of how excruciatingly dire we were under Lambert for most of this season it is absolutely remarkable how quickly Sherwood has gotten these players to turn in the recent performances they have and how quickly he has integrated a style of play and formation that gets the best out of them. The squad was always way better on paper than results and performances suggested but due to the failings of his predecessor Sherwood inherited a squad not just underachieving but totally devoid of any confidence and more concerned with how not to lose a game than how to win it. For seemingly turning that around so quickly is some going and if it continues and gets us to safety then Sherwood will fully deserve any and all praise that comes his way. When Lambert first arrived he was asked to bring a more exciting brand of football to the club to basically be the anti-Mcleish, whilst keeping our Premier league status. But when you pretty much have to overall most of the squad and have very little money to do that with, then it's easier said than done. If you've struggled one season your not going to magically 'kick on' and not flirt with relegation the next season because you've added a couple of players that cost 2 or 3 million pounds, it's just an unrealistic expectation. As for Sherwood doing well so far, I don't think that's a reflection on Lambert at all, partly because we could be going through a bit of an 'honeymoon period' at the moment so it's hard to judge. And even if as I expect Sherwood continues to do well in the long run It'll be because he's an exeptional manager and not because Lambert is a bad manager. The two can't be compared really because of the differing situations that they came into at the club. I still think that if Randy stays and Sherwood is only given say £10M to spend, then we'll struggle again next season and he'll be doing well to simply steer us clear of relegation. That's why I really hope these takeover rumours are true and it's a good buyer to give Tim the best chance possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 lambert wasnt that bad his first season though to be fair.. he wasnt always AS shit as he was this seaosn. he did get some real impressive wins 3-1 against pool and goons (the pool one was a fantastic performance one of the best ive seen from a villa side in years) also beat city couple times no doubt he was a failure but worst ever? not for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Hmm, for me it was right until the Hull game where it had dawned on me that he is at a cross roads of no return. I think the signs started with Leicester, and always looked to the Hull game as the next "must win" type game. The Hull game really signalled the end, the point where the risk of changing was less than the risk of keeping him on anymore. Tim's come in now, and only 5 games in he's getting the likes of nzogbia firing who never did under Lambert...you have to ask the question. I have no ill feeling towards Lambert, I think the life was sucked out of him over the course of years by the conditions he had to work with...the stripping back of wages was crucial. You could see at the end of each Window, something about his body language suggested he wanted more. I really think when you have to reduce the wages so drastically, you're really up against it - the players available to you are really not getting a look in anywhere else. Bargain basement so to speak... I agree with most who say that he didn't do that bad a job...but it was absolutely time for him to go, no two ways about it. I just now thank him for leaving something for Tim to work with, seems he is making a good start. Given the financial restrictions by Lerner season after season, it's kind of remarkable that Lambert has left a squad of players who aren't the worst in the league! I can also agree with those who show him no compassion what so ever, because the footballing display this season and the records broken have been absolutely shit. Never again do I want to wonder, at Christmas, if I'll even see us score another goal in the season. Personally I backed him right until the end, I didn't see any positives in trying to replace him under our current ownership because of the remit set. I guess it takes a change to really open your eyes but I always thought when the hardest of fixtures were over we'd turn something. It wasn't to be, and now we shout "Tim Sherwood’s claret and blue army" in the hope he can continue his good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 WIth regards to players like N'Zogbia and Agbonlahor suddenly looking interested I think that says just as much about them as it does about Lambert. But that they are firing now is a good thing and let's hope they keep it up but them turning it on or off depenind on whether they like the manager or not doesn't put them in the greatest light to me and I wonder if they're the kind of players we can rely on in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) This is becoming the Lambert thread, but no other manager has broken so many club records as Lambert and that to me is unforgivable. People state he has a good record when it comes to recruitment. All he managed was to spread out a lot of money on a lot of players and wages. Signing one good player in every six signed is not a good ratio. The fact we still have Sylla, Tonev, Bennett, Helenius, and Luna all on loan says it all, oh and Herd before he returned. Plus bringing Zog, Given, Bent and Hutton back after failing to sell any of them or actually remove their wages in entirety even on loan is also crap. I know this is probably pie in the sky but i would love to see what Bent could have done under Sherwood. Probably tit all, but then again I would have said the same of Cleverly, Gabby and Zog in particular a month ago! Edited March 17, 2015 by VillanousOne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 We **** our pitch invasion up buy coming on when Sinclair scored, then coming on again in injury time, then coming on again after the whistle. If the fans had only invaded the pitch after the final whistle no one would have made anything of it. Absolutely. But the actions of about 100 idiots should not be allowed to sour the enjoyment of a further 32,000. Except that it was, and not just by the media. I, personally, am still angry at certain comments aimed at those who were on the pitch after the final whistle. Comments on this very website that were not challenged nearly enough in my opinion. I agree. The complete over-reaction by not only Villa fans on here, but fans from every club was just strange. Anyone on the pitch before the final whistle, I understand the criticism. But some of the comments made about fans being on the pitch after the game had finished was completely ridiculous. I'm not really entirely sure why one is better than the other? Don't invade the pitch. Rocket science, it isn't. Because celebrating on the pitch is completely different to running on the pitch while a game is still in play. The primary concern - I'd assume - with a pitch invasion is that the playing staff aren't safe. Is there any difference between this happening during a game (whilst players are on the pitch) or immediately after a game (whilst players are on the pitch)? We **** our pitch invasion up buy coming on when Sinclair scored, then coming on again in injury time, then coming on again after the whistle. If the fans had only invaded the pitch after the final whistle no one would have made anything of it. Absolutely. But the actions of about 100 idiots should not be allowed to sour the enjoyment of a further 32,000. Except that it was, and not just by the media. I, personally, am still angry at certain comments aimed at those who were on the pitch after the final whistle. Comments on this very website that were not challenged nearly enough in my opinion. I agree. The complete over-reaction by not only Villa fans on here, but fans from every club was just strange. Anyone on the pitch before the final whistle, I understand the criticism. But some of the comments made about fans being on the pitch after the game had finished was completely ridiculous. I'm not really entirely sure why one is better than the other? Don't invade the pitch. Rocket science, it isn't. Again, what the **** has intelligence got to do with it? Perhaps people don't understand "don't invade the pitch"? Thus, intelligence issue. Which part of "One should not invade the pitch" is difficult to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 WIth regards to players like N'Zogbia and Agbonlahor suddenly looking interested I think that says just as much about them as it does about Lambert. But that they are firing now is a good thing and let's hope they keep it up but them turning it on or off depenind on whether they like the manager or not doesn't put them in the greatest light to me and I wonder if they're the kind of players we can rely on in the long run. We've seen players at various clubs who have gone in to a big sulk with a manager but the manager always spots the issue and doesn't play the player. However, having not played or managed at any reasonable level, I genuinely don't know whether players, who are being regularly selected, can consciously 'turn off' their form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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