BOF Posted February 18, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 18, 2015 If we see the Cleverley from the 2nd half against Leicester then I'm all for it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 All he has to do is lose to Stoke, and the whole tenor of this thread will shift profoundly, right? Not for me. I'm confident he will keep us up but I'm not going to ignore the mess he's coming into. We're on course to be one of the worst teams in premier league history, I'm just glad we've given ourselves a chance and that won't change if he doesn't perform an instant miracle. I don't agree that we are a 'mess' and certainly not 'one of the worst teams in premier league history'. Things needed a change true, but the common wisdom is that we have an excellent squad but that we need better tactics and motivation So success would clearly be keeping us up - what would represent failure in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 All he has to do is lose to Stoke, and the whole tenor of this thread will shift profoundly, right? Not for me. I'm confident he will keep us up but I'm not going to ignore the mess he's coming into. We're on course to be one of the worst teams in premier league history, I'm just glad we've given ourselves a chance and that won't change if he doesn't perform an instant miracle. I don't agree that we are a 'mess' and certainly not 'one of the worst teams in premier league history'. Things needed a change true, but the common wisdom is that we have an excellent squad but that we need better tactics and motivation So success would clearly be keeping us up - what would represent failure in your opinion? We do have a good squad certainly better than the league position suggests. A fit Vlaar and in form Bentekke we can stay up with considerable ease - those two are key for me... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 18, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 18, 2015 I suppose numerically Jonah is right. Our current trajectory is that we finish on 33pts. So 'we're on course' for that. I suspect a league table of every points finish in Premier League history would probably have 33 very low down. Where I don't agree is that we are a mess. I agree with VillaCas that a change was needed at management level. It had gone beyond stale unfortunately. But there should be enough there to recover the situation if they all apply themselves. I think it was Dublin or Shearer who simply said that if we can get Benteke scoring again then we'll stay up. It's almost that simple because the defence is already doing its thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I suppose numerically Jonah is right. Our current trajectory is that we finish on 33pts. So 'we're on course' for that. I suspect a league table of every points finish in Premier League history would probably have 33 very low down. Where I don't agree is that we are a mess. I agree with VillaCas that a change was needed at management level. It had gone beyond stale unfortunately. But there should be enough there to recover the situation if they all apply themselves. I think it was Dublin or Shearer who simply said that if we can get Benteke scoring again then we'll stay up. It's almost that simple because the defence is already doing its thing. The question for me about the defence - is can they keep the goals against tally down - if we commit more geezers forward ?- which we clearly need to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 18, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 18, 2015 The question for me about the defence - is can they keep the goals against tally down - if we commit more geezers forward ?- which we clearly need to doI don't believe we can, no. Or rather, not to the current extent anyway (Arsenal thrashing notwithstanding). But I do think the balance will turn in our favour. We'll go from scoring zero and conceding the odd one to scoring and conceding regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 All he has to do is lose to Stoke, and the whole tenor of this thread will shift profoundly, right? Not for me. I'm confident he will keep us up but I'm not going to ignore the mess he's coming into. We're on course to be one of the worst teams in premier league history, I'm just glad we've given ourselves a chance and that won't change if he doesn't perform an instant miracle. I don't agree that we are a 'mess' and certainly not 'one of the worst teams in premier league history'. Things needed a change true, but the common wisdom is that we have an excellent squad but that we need better tactics and motivation So success would clearly be keeping us up - what would represent failure in your opinion? We're on course to finish with 33 points and 19 goals. That's got to be up there with the worst teams in prem history. I think the squad is much better than how we've been playing but the lack of confidence, lack of ideas and clear lack of the way they've been coached has certainly left us in a bit of a mess. I guess if we go down, Sherwood would have failed but in my list of who to blame relegation on he'd be near the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 All he has to do is lose to Stoke, and the whole tenor of this thread will shift profoundly, right? Not for me. I'm confident he will keep us up but I'm not going to ignore the mess he's coming into. We're on course to be one of the worst teams in premier league history, I'm just glad we've given ourselves a chance and that won't change if he doesn't perform an instant miracle. I don't agree that we are a 'mess' and certainly not 'one of the worst teams in premier league history'. Things needed a change true, but the common wisdom is that we have an excellent squad but that we need better tactics and motivation So success would clearly be keeping us up - what would represent failure in your opinion? We're on course to finish with 33 points and 19 goals. That's got to be up there with the worst teams in prem history. I think the squad is much better than how we've been playing but the lack of confidence, lack of ideas and clear lack of the way they've been coached has certainly left us in a bit of a mess. I guess if we go down, Sherwood would have failed but in my list of who to blame relegation on he'd be near the bottom. Yep - those who allowed this situation develop are more to blame..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I suppose numerically Jonah is right. Our current trajectory is that we finish on 33pts. So 'we're on course' for that. I suspect a league table of every points finish in Premier League history would probably have 33 very low down. Where I don't agree is that we are a mess. I agree with VillaCas that a change was needed at management level. It had gone beyond stale unfortunately. But there should be enough there to recover the situation if they all apply themselves. I think it was Dublin or Shearer who simply said that if we can get Benteke scoring again then we'll stay up. It's almost that simple because the defence is already doing its thing. I agree with this. Benteke has struggled to return to form and without him we have precious few goals in the team. Keeping Vlaar fit is the other key in my opinion - he made the difference on Sunday and will be important if we employ a more expansive style which leaves us more exposed at the back. I expect Cissoko and Hutton to be a little more withdrawn but that midfield will push on Stoke game is massive - win a we have momentum, lose and I could see all the positivity drain away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villasam82 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Goals from midfield is key for me, we need to start scoring some. Now we have two out and out wingers in Gil and Sinclair, we need to get plenty of crosses into the stoke box and star attacking them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 18, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 18, 2015 Goals from midfield is key for me, we need to start scoring some. Now we have two out and out wingers in Gil and Sinclair, we need to get plenty of crosses into the stoke box and star attacking them.Yep, the decision from a tactical point of view then becomes who does he want to put the onus on. Do you push Delph forward more in a 4-3-3 or do you leave him where he is and make it Gil & Sinclair's job. Obviously they'll all try and chip in when the opportunity presents, but I'm more thinking who will go out on the pitch with the biggest responsibility to start helping Benteke and any other forward that's there.Personally I'd like to see how Delph would fare higher up the pitch. I think he has the ability if the shackles came off. He could be our Steeeeeeeeevie G (before he became a holding mid) if he was given the freedom to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I'd keep Delph away from the deep positions Far to many times this season have i seen us try and build an attack from deep and he's just passed it straight to the opposition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majkee Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I am sure Tim will play Bacuna and Sinclair on the wings and Cleverley as AMC behind Benteke (as far as I remember well, Sir Alex claimed in his recent book that Cleverley´s most suitable role was AMC, but had better options that time). Gil was/is injured, starting on the bench if possible and Grealish, if not the best performer in midweek training sessions, will start on bench too. Guessing: Two holding midfielders would be Delph with options to be box-to-box and Westwood, as holding with deep playmaking role. I am looking forward to Tim´s starting 11 and tactics and how far from reality my words will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 18, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18, 2015 if he plays Cleverley as AMC then he needs a slap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Biro Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Scoring goals from midfield doesn't necessarily have to come by moving anyone it'll just come from more positive play and confidence in general throughout the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I am sure Tim will play Bacuna and Sinclair on the wings and Cleverley as AMC behind Benteke (as far as I remember well, Sir Alex claimed in his recent book that Cleverley´s most suitable role was AMC, but had better options that time). Gil was/is injured, starting on the bench if possible and Grealish, if not the best performer in midweek training sessions, will start on bench too. Guessing: Two holding midfielders would be Delph with options to be box-to-box and Westwood, as holding with deep playmaking role. I am looking forward to Tim´s starting 11 and tactics and how far from reality my words will be. Gil will be fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted February 18, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18, 2015 I don't understand why people would play Delph higher up the pitch. His finishing is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I don't understand why people would play Delph higher up the pitch. His finishing is awful. Because he's a liability anywhere near our penalty area as well How many assists has he given opposition teams this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted February 18, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18, 2015 I don't understand why people would play Delph higher up the pitch. His finishing is awful. Because he's a liability anywhere near our penalty area as well How many assists has he given opposition teams this season More than he's given our team that's for sure ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I suppose numerically Jonah is right. Our current trajectory is that we finish on 33pts. So 'we're on course' for that. I suspect a league table of every points finish in Premier League history would probably have 33 very low down. Where I don't agree is that we are a mess. I agree with VillaCas that a change was needed at management level. It had gone beyond stale unfortunately. But there should be enough there to recover the situation if they all apply themselves. I think it was Dublin or Shearer who simply said that if we can get Benteke scoring again then we'll stay up. It's almost that simple because the defence is already doing its thing. I agree with this. Benteke has struggled to return to form and without him we have precious few goals in the team. Keeping Vlaar fit is the other key in my opinion - he made the difference on Sunday and will be important if we employ a more expansive style which leaves us more exposed at the back. I expect Cissoko and Hutton to be a little more withdrawn but that midfield will push on Stoke game is massive - win a we have momentum, lose and I could see all the positivity drain awayi'm not seeing Stoke as massive as I think we have proved that we can beat the bigger teams and lose badly to lower teams. I also don't want to put pressure solely on one game. We have 13 games, however we get those points we just need to get them. The more we put pressure on the next game the more likely we'll screw up and things get more nervous and agitated. Stoke for me is the next opportunity to get points of course, let's do our best and if we win great, if we lose we still have 12 more games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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