The 2015 General Election

[rendelc]

I'm voting Tory to keep the Greens out .

[lapal_fan]

 

 having morals is nothing to do with how you vote ...

I honestly, hand on heart, don't think I could ever vote Tory, not matter how much or what they promised to give me. I couldn't live with my conscience, and for me that makes it a moral judgement. I just could not bring myself to vote for a party whose primary aim seems to be to keep the wealthy, wealthy, and shat on the weak, the poor, and the needy.

 

It's very much a moral judgement I am making when I walk into that voting booth.

 

I'm not equating being moral with voting Labour by the way. They seemed to lose their moral compass some time ago. Possibly in 1997. But maybe before. I think Thatch found their compass, and crushed it. Labour has yet to fully recover from Thatch. Hence the popularity of the Greens, who have gone from being a fringe 'single interest' party to a genuine UK-wide force and home for left wing, socialist and environmental thought.

 

 

How do they do that though?

 

I've read their manifesto (skimmed..) and they seem to want to bring poverty down, and it's more or less word for word the same as the Labour manifesto and Lib Dem manifesto.

 

Inform me, because I'm obviously missing something.

[chrisp65]

On the doorstep a couple of evenings ago, I told a Labour canvasser that I personally couldn't see the problem with a big block of SNP MP's forcing more left leaning decisions and policies on the Labour party.

His answer (which might just have been to get me on side): me neither mate, but I'm not allowed to say that...

 

Perhaps they just need to grow a pair and remember why they exist.

[chrisp65]

 

 

 having morals is nothing to do with how you vote ...

I honestly, hand on heart, don't think I could ever vote Tory, not matter how much or what they promised to give me. I couldn't live with my conscience, and for me that makes it a moral judgement. I just could not bring myself to vote for a party whose primary aim seems to be to keep the wealthy, wealthy, and shat on the weak, the poor, and the needy.

 

It's very much a moral judgement I am making when I walk into that voting booth.

 

I'm not equating being moral with voting Labour by the way. They seemed to lose their moral compass some time ago. Possibly in 1997. But maybe before. I think Thatch found their compass, and crushed it. Labour has yet to fully recover from Thatch. Hence the popularity of the Greens, who have gone from being a fringe 'single interest' party to a genuine UK-wide force and home for left wing, socialist and environmental thought.

 

 

How do they do that though?

 

I've read their manifesto (skimmed..) and they seem to want to bring poverty down, and it's more or less word for word the same as the Labour manifesto and Lib Dem manifesto.

 

Inform me, because I'm obviously missing something.

 

 

If they enact a law saying they can't increase taxes on those in employment, what other ways are there of not borrowing too much money?

 

If you can't raise income, you have to lower expenditure. Do they intend to lower expenditure? Hell yes. Have they told us where? Hell no.

 

Admittedly in 2015, they aren't a million miles from the Labour position, but that's because Labour is now a centrist party saying what it needs to for a go in the big chair.

[lapal_fan]

If they enact a law saying they can't increase taxes on those in employment, what other ways are there of not borrowing too much money?

 

If you can't raise income, you have to lower expenditure. Do they intend to lower expenditure? Hell yes. Have they told us where? Hell no.

 

Admittedly in 2015, they aren't a million miles from the Labour position, but that's because Labour is now a centrist party saying what it needs to for a go in the big chair.

 

I don't understand.

[chrisp65]

I have to go out and get a pasty and a diet coke (they kinda cancel each other out).

[tonyh29]

No, I think I can see where Brommy is coming from.

When I was starting out in life there were any number of occasions where it became clear you needed to be in a particular set or club to get nice things.

I've had a job where it was made clear that to progress I had to join the golf club and play by the clubhouse rules. I tried it, it was so up itself and so obviously just a conservative meeting place that I dropped it quite quickly.

Another time, I needed a written quote for building work to qualify for a grant that was only available for a very brief window. Couldn't persuade a builder to give a quote. A friend who it later transpired was in the masons got me that quote. The masons was very much a tory thing around here.

I could go on (don't worry I won't), but I found this time and time again, you had to be 'in' to get a share of the nice things. It was unfair.

is that any different to the industry where the Unions had things sown up and outsiders couldn't get in ?

[tonyh29]

 

 

 

On the general subject of voting, and why/for whom: do people tend to vote for 'what is best for me (and my family)' or 'I'm voting for what I believe in ideologically, and morally'. I've always been firmly in column B.

 

For me, it's about how I'd like the country to be run, morally, socially, politically, and not really a consideration of 'economically, it's in my best interests to vote Tory cuz I'm rich' etc

I'd like to think I would run the country with the same ethics I have used bringing my two kids up. I have always guarded them against greed, urged them to work hard but play fair and try to see the best in people; one of the reasons I have never voted Conservative to be honest. My household income is probably more typical of someone who might vote Conservative so I guess that makes me more likely to vote based on the good of the country than for selfish reasons.

no offence , but that really is a load of bollocks

No offence taken, it is merely your opinion, whilst it really is the way I have guided my children and it really is one of the reasons I have never voted Conservative.

 

I've bought my children up the same way , i guess the point I'm trying to make is I don't see what voting intent has to do with it ... there are some good conservatives MP's , there are some bad ones , likewise with labour , and Lib Dems

 .. and likewise with policies and ditto with their actions

 

Years back whilst drunk in Ibiza (I'd have been about 17)  I gave a drunk lad in a Celtic shirt abuse for no other reason than he was wearing a Celtic shirt  ... his reasoned and educated reply made me realise what a bigoted idiot I had been and I apologised and we went off and had a beer together  ... I learnt a lesson that not everyone wearing a Celtic fan is an IRA supporting moron  .... likewise people here need to wake up to the reality that not every Tory is a baby chomping selfish toff with no moral compass

[chrisp65]

 

No, I think I can see where Brommy is coming from.

When I was starting out in life there were any number of occasions where it became clear you needed to be in a particular set or club to get nice things.

I've had a job where it was made clear that to progress I had to join the golf club and play by the clubhouse rules. I tried it, it was so up itself and so obviously just a conservative meeting place that I dropped it quite quickly.

Another time, I needed a written quote for building work to qualify for a grant that was only available for a very brief window. Couldn't persuade a builder to give a quote. A friend who it later transpired was in the masons got me that quote. The masons was very much a tory thing around here.

I could go on (don't worry I won't), but I found this time and time again, you had to be 'in' to get a share of the nice things. It was unfair.

is that any different to the industry where the Unions had things sown up and outsiders couldn't get in ?

 

 

I guess its very similar, in the past. Does that still happen? Or have we had a one way correcting of something that was unfair on both sides?

 

It's also not something I experienced. When I've been a member of a union, it's stopped people being sacked without good reason to give jobs to those that would do them cheaper. So my personal experience of union membership was wholly good. But I accept that wasn't universal.

 

I am not currently in a union and don't currently feel those that are have any unfair advantage over me. The golf club and the old school tie still have an advantage over me. 

[chrisp65]

 ...not every Tory is a baby chomping selfish toff with no moral compass

 

source?

Edited April 30, 2015 by chrisp65

[tonyh29]

 

 having morals is nothing to do with how you vote ...

I honestly, hand on heart, don't think I could ever vote Tory, not matter how much or what they promised to give me. I couldn't live with my conscience, and for me that makes it a moral judgement. I just could not bring myself to vote for a party whose primary aim seems to be to keep the wealthy, wealthy, and shat on the weak, the poor, and the needy.

 

It's very much a moral judgement I am making when I walk into that voting booth.

 

I'm not equating being moral with voting Labour by the way. They seemed to lose their moral compass some time ago. Possibly in 1997. But maybe before. I think Thatch found their compass, and crushed it. Labour has yet to fully recover from Thatch. Hence the popularity of the Greens, who have gone from being a fringe 'single interest' party to a genuine UK-wide force and home for left wing, socialist and environmental thought.

 

didn't the poverty gap widen under the 13 years of the last government

 

Didn't Brown cut the 10p tax rate

 

Didn't Brown rob peoples pensions

 

that's the bit I struggle with , you acknowledge that Labour lost their compass , but by and large it's only the Tory's that seem to prick your conscience ..and only the Torys who appear to shit on the poor

 

On the basis of what you've written then  your shift to the Greens is arguably the right move  for your values , but maybe you can share your moral anger a bit more equally amongst the other parties

[tonyh29]

On the doorstep a couple of evenings ago, I told a Labour canvasser that I personally couldn't see the problem with a big block of SNP MP's forcing more left leaning decisions and policies on the Labour party.

His answer (which might just have been to get me on side): me neither mate, but I'm not allowed to say that...

 

Perhaps they just need to grow a pair and remember why they exist.

I don't think there is any "might" about it

 

I'd refuse to vote for any MP who called me "mate" though , so cross him off your list

[tonyh29]

 

 

No, I think I can see where Brommy is coming from.

When I was starting out in life there were any number of occasions where it became clear you needed to be in a particular set or club to get nice things.

I've had a job where it was made clear that to progress I had to join the golf club and play by the clubhouse rules. I tried it, it was so up itself and so obviously just a conservative meeting place that I dropped it quite quickly.

Another time, I needed a written quote for building work to qualify for a grant that was only available for a very brief window. Couldn't persuade a builder to give a quote. A friend who it later transpired was in the masons got me that quote. The masons was very much a tory thing around here.

I could go on (don't worry I won't), but I found this time and time again, you had to be 'in' to get a share of the nice things. It was unfair.

is that any different to the industry where the Unions had things sown up and outsiders couldn't get in ?

 

 

I guess its very similar, in the past. Does that still happen? Or have we had a one way correcting of something that was unfair on both sides?

 

It's also not something I experienced. When I've been a member of a union, it's stopped people being sacked without good reason to give jobs to those that would do them cheaper. So my personal experience of union membership was wholly good. But I accept that wasn't universal.

 

I am not currently in a union and don't currently feel those that are have any unfair advantage over me. The golf club and the old school tie still have an advantage over me. 

 

you do know how much a London underground driver gets paid don't you  ...  it's clear that their Union are giving them an unfair advantage , the top earners are rumoured to be getting paid in excess of £50,000 ( torygraph even states £65k) ... I'm not belittling tube drivers , but is that really a job that deserves to be paid double what a band 5 nurse earns   ( Nurses being the currency that everything gets measured by since 2010 )

 

 

I spent years contracting at a couple of investment banks , when I started it was very much old school and institutionalised ..by the time I left most of the people were even more common and uneducated  than me

[Nabby]

I was just looking into all these reports on how the SNP are going to smash Labour in Scotland, then I started looking at the individual seats that the SNP are supposedly going to take. Many of these the SNP were third or even fourth in the last election. If you look at any depth into the figures, it would take some ridiculously large vote swings for this to happen.

YouGov polls for example have Jim Murphy losing East Renfrewshire to the Nationals, last election he had 50.8% of the vote there, Conservatives 30.4%, Lib Dem 9.2%, and Scottish Nationals on 8.9%. I'm not sure there has been a swing of fourty odd percent in a constituency in British electoral history, not that I've been able to find anyway.

 

I think you will find alot of peole who didn't vote last time especially those who wanted independence are now backing the SNP hence the big swing.

[chrisp65]

Tony, are you suggesting we double the wages of a nurse, or halve the wages of a tube driver?

 

We may have just found the Labour / Tory difference analysis machine here!

 

I don't have a problem with a tube train driver earning good money. It's a proper job.

[lapal_fan]

Tony, are you suggesting we double the wages of a nurse, or halve the wages of a tube driver?

 

We may have just found the Labour / Tory difference analysis machine here!

 

I don't have a problem with a tube train driver earning good money. It's a proper job.

Not very skilled though?

 

I guess the high pay is related to the shift patterns/lack of sunlight = ricketts kind of thing

[tonyh29]

Tony, are you suggesting we double the wages of a nurse, or halve the wages of a tube driver?

 

We may have just found the Labour / Tory difference analysis machine here!

 

I don't have a problem with a tube train driver earning good money. It's a proper job.

I take it you don't travel on the tube much  ... the drivers are asleep in their cabins all of the time , the train drives itself  *

 

I'll go with half the pay of tube drivers  , charge them extra tax on where they live and then give it to the nurses  ... Ed would be proud of me

 

 

 

 

 

 

* I jest ....tbf  they probably only sleep for 60% of their working day

Edited April 30, 2015 by tonyh29

[chrisp65]

I use the tube a couple of times most weeks. Never had a crash, so overall I'm happy.

All day secure parking Westfield Hammersmiff £6.50, walking distance to the tube! Awesome service.

For the first TWO YEARS my boss didn't notice that my Oyster card topped up from his bank account.

[blandy]

people here need to wake up to the reality that not every Tory is a baby chomping selfish toff with no moral compass

 Quite right. No one has said that though, have they?. The MPs maybe ( it's broadly what I think of them), but not people who align themselves with that party in terms of voting etc. (though some of them are baby chompers too.)

 

 

 ...not every Tory is a baby chomping selfish toff with no moral compass

 

sauce?

I believe they favour a dash of tabasco with their raw infant.

[chrisp65]

 

 been waiting to use that!

Edited April 30, 2015 by chrisp65