The 2015 General Election

[smetrov]

Interesting radio debate on 5 live today around 10:00 , with Nick Clegg being the main MP present

 

they came to the NHS and the labour MP , started going on and on about the NHS and what the Torys were doing .. the presenter  actually stopped her and said , I'm going to stop you there as there are lots of  major inaccuracies in what you said that we need to correct .. which the presenter then proceeded to do  ..... From the audience reaction It was refreshing to finally hear that people aren't blindly buying labours lies on the NHS any longer

 

they also had the head of the NHS ( i thik that's who he was) who said A&E was receiving an extra 20,000 people per week than previous year  .. most of this increase being down to people attending A&E as they couldn't get appointments with their doctor  ... does this mean the first thing the next government needs to do is tackle Doctors surgeries rather than just throwing more nurses at everything ?

 

Invest in walk in centres - not  GP surgery's.

 

Its not just A+E - thats the entrance point which becomes blocked - the problem is people can't leave A+E because there are no beds to take them -

 

Its not really an A+E crisis - its a capacity issue throughout the whole NHS. Even if you pumped people through A+E faster it wouldn't alter an awful lot.

Edited April 27, 2015 by smetrov

[sharkyvilla]

If the population keeps growing at the same rate they'll need huge investment just to stand still with the NHS. It will take time to train nurses and doctors up as well so I can't see things getting any better any time soon.

[snowychap]

In my world greater powers than Cameron would have a quiet word if he tried to form a govt whilst not being largest party.

This may come across as rude (it really isn't meant to be) but what has 'your world' got to do with the one in which we live?

Although I accept your point officially he is under no obligation to do so.

Officially, technically, practically, &c.

[smetrov]

Basically that whoever wins the election is allowed to govern......up to a point .........Threaten the status quo and then you see where the real power is...

[brommy]

This isn't going to lead to a claim that the royal family are actually a collection of all powerful, mind controlling lizards, is it?

[smetrov]

This isn't going to lead to a claim that the royal family are actually a collection of all powerful, mind controlling lizards, is it?

 

Why else does every act of parliment need Royal Ascent ?

 

Everything is geared to keep them where they are

[brommy]

Why else does every act of parliment need Royal Ascent ?

Everything is geared to keep them where they are

I'm not a constitutional expert but I suspect the royal family is written in to the UK's constitution, but couldn't the constitution could be changed, if Parliament decides? I suspect a lot of the royal family and Parliament's relationship is constitutionally intertwined, in a 'I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine' way, thus making any change unlikely.

[mjmooney]

Assent. 

[brommy]

Assent.

Bless you.

[Eames]

I'm not a constitutional expert but I suspect the royal family is written in to the UK's constitution, but couldn't the constitution could be changed, if Parliament decides? I suspect a lot of the royal family and Parliament's relationship is constitutionally intertwined, in a 'I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine' way, thus making any change unlikely.

We don't have a written constitution.

We have the Common Law and then a bunch of precedents and Case Law judgements.

[blandy]

I actually 'LOL'd' this morning when I read the 5k SME's back the Tories story.

5k out of 4.9m estimated SME business' in the UK.

0.1%

Lambert had a higher % of support on here than that!

Strangely, that letter to the Torygraph was actually written by Conservative Central HQ, the list of signatories was compiled by that nice Karen Brady person and subsequently there's been people going "I don't think that, take my name off that list".

It's pretty desperate to be honest, the whole way that the tories are so transparently using the Torygraph and Daily Heil as propoganda tools.

Then there's Rupert Murdoch instructing the Sun to slag off Milliband and praise the Tories generally and Boris Johnson particularly.

They have no shame, no wit and hopefully soon no office, baby chomping vermin, the lot of them

[snowychap]

We don't have a written constitution.

We do. All of that common law, those precedents, the case law, statutes and so on are all written.

It's just that we don't have some single document written from first principles like most of elsewhere (which they've then gone on to amend, haven't they?)

[snowychap]

...even though snowy doesn't agree with Clegg's law ...

I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with it - I was saying that 'Clegg's law' is little more than the wishful thinking of the kingmaker of 2010, in that he was expressing what he thought would be the best position for him and his party to take rather than what the incumbent (or any future potential kingmaker) is required to do.

As per the political and constitutional reform committee document:

The First Opportunity to Form a Government

9. The question of who has the first opportunity to form a government is subject to differing views. The traditional position is that "the constitutional conventions on government formation (including in situations of a hung Parliament) were and are, firstly, that the incumbent Prime Minister has the first opportunity to continue in office and form an administration".[13]

10. The draft Cabinet Manual chapter states that "An incumbent Government is entitled to await the meeting of the new Parliament to see if it can command the confidence of the House of Commons".[14] The December 2010 Cabinet Manual adds the phrase "but is expected to resign if it becomes clear that it is unlikely to be able to command that confidence and there is a clear alternative".[15]

11. During the election campaign and immediately after the election, Rt Hon Nick Clegg MP, the leader of the Liberal Democrat party, expressed a view on the circumstances in which he and his party would support an attempt to form a government.

12. In a television interview, Nick Clegg stated this conclusion as "whichever party gets the most votes and the most seats, if not an absolute majority, has the first right to seek to govern, either on its own or by reaching out to other parties".[16] Rt Hon David Laws MP, a member of the Liberal Democrat coalition negotiating team, explained the background to this statement as follows:

What Nick had said during the general election campaign is that, whichever party had the largest number of seats and votes—we assumed that it would be the same, but obviously it could have been different—we would talk to them first, because we thought it would look very odd to the public if we went into talks first with the party that had just appeared to have lost power.[17]

13. This appears to contradict the traditional constitutional convention, and "may have misled people into thinking that he was asserting constitutional doctrine".[18] Nick Clegg's comment is also included as a footnote to the December 2010 Cabinet Manual which may suggest that it has set a precedent for future elections where there is no overall majority.[19]

14. Both the constitutional convention and Nick Clegg are right in different ways. The constitutional right need not be reflected in the political reality of a political party's choice of negotiating partner. Professor Robert Blackburn, Director of the Centre for Political and Constitutional Studies, King's College London, states this clearly in his written evidence:

An important distinction to be drawn in interpreting the constitutional conventions on hung Parliaments is to realise that the right of an incumbent Prime Minister to remain in office and attempt to form a working Commons majority with others outside his party, does not mean or translate into a constitutional obligation upon third parties to do a deal with the incumbent Prime Minister or even to enter into any negotiations with him and his party.[20]

15. The December 2010 Cabinet Manual provided greater clarity on the extent to which an incumbent government has a right to stay in office to see whether it can command the confidence of the House of Commons. However, the inclusion of the comments made in May 2010 by the Leader of the Liberal Democrat party may suggest that this view will carry weight in future.

That the note to the december 2010 manual does not appear in the 2015 cabinet manual (at least I can't find them) would suggest that the comments of the Leader of the Liberal Democrats have not carried any weight in the future.

I think the most important point made above is point 14 and the explanation given by Professor Blackburn.

There is another point to all of this and it fits in with something that blandy posted earlier:

And finally, last time, when Labour didn't get the most seats, the tories were (rightly) saying that Brown should sling his hook, not wait for a vote in Parliament.

Constitutionally the current PM may try to gather together enough support to form a Gov't before resigning, but if he can't, then he has to let (in this case) Milliband have a go. If he can't either, then it goes back to Cameron.

There is a difference between parties discussing potential deals, pacts and coalitions (and the order in which these discussions end up taking place) and the constitutional implications of a PM resigning and someone else being asked to form a government.

There is no need for discussions on forming a government to specifically include the largest individual party, the current PM or anyone else.

[Demitri_C]

Interesting radio debate on 5 live today around 10:00 , with Nick Clegg being the main MP present

 

they came to the NHS and the labour MP , started going on and on about the NHS and what the Torys were doing .. the presenter  actually stopped her and said , I'm going to stop you there as there are lots of  major inaccuracies in what you said that we need to correct .. which the presenter then proceeded to do  ..... From the audience reaction It was refreshing to finally hear that people aren't blindly buying labours lies on the NHS any longer

 

they also had the head of the NHS ( i thik that's who he was) who said A&E was receiving an extra 20,000 people per week than previous year  .. most of this increase being down to people attending A&E as they couldn't get appointments with their doctor  ... does this mean the first thing the next government needs to do is tackle Doctors surgeries rather than just throwing more nurses at everything ?

I think that is a fair point. But closing hospitals doesn't help either. Take it there is no money in the kitty to build new hospitals which my local area desperately needs

[dAVe80]

[tonyh29]

At least you had the sense not to post it in any of the "funny" threads

[dAVe80]

At least you had the sense not to post it in any of the "funny" threads

 

Tehehe! 

[smetrov]

Notice the tories have gone up in the polls since Camerson said he supports West Ham !

[lapal_fan]

You could do one of those infographics for any of them..

[Stevo985]

You could do one of those infographics for any of them..

Exactly.

 

They're all as bad as each other.

 

Exactly the reason why so many people like me have no idea who to vote for.

Even if you vote for the ones that talk the most sense, what they'll actually do when they're in power is completely different.

 

Load of shite.