The 2015 General Election

[bickster]

UKIP get more support because they get more coverage would be more accurate. The Mail and the Express especially for the middle classes and the Sun for the working classes, whilst not overtly jumping down Farage's pants to offer him a blowie might as well be doing it in the pub toilet cubicle. It suits their purpose which in reality is to turn the Tory Party rightwards and away from Europe where they have a fear of over regulation in a federal state

[Mantis]

That doesn't really make any sense. UKIP started getting more coverage when they started making breakthroughs in the local elections in 2013 and got into double digits in the polls. If the newspapers just want to turn the Conservatives towards the right and get away from European regulation then it would make little sense to be supporting UKIP considering that on the whole UKIP are harming the Tories more than Labour.

[Xann]

Could probably put GDP back a hundred years as well if the Greens were running the country.

 

Let's hope they scrap it entirely as a method of measuring the success of a state.

[bickster]

That doesn't really make any sense. UKIP started getting more coverage when they started making breakthroughs in the local elections in 2013 and got into double digits in the polls. If the newspapers just want to turn the Conservatives towards the right and get away from European regulation then it would make little sense to be supporting UKIP considering that on the whole UKIP are harming the Tories more than Labour.

Makes perfect sense. They aren't openly supporting UKIP, none of them. When the election nears they will all be backing the Tories. What they are doing is pushing UKIPs agenda forward just enough to nudge the Tories in the desired direction. Which incidentally is exactly what the left want the Greens to do to Labour.

Its all a little power game of tiny steps

[OutByEaster?]

OBE, what kind of figure did you have in mind when you said "groundswell support"? I can't imagine a properly left-wing Labour hitting 40% of the vote.

 

I can. A sensible party with a left wing bias could really prosper in the current environment. We've given the current thinking 30 years and it's failed; in fact not only has it failed, it's collapsed catastrophically, then ignored it's own basic rules and allowed a socialist bailout where all the people got together and spent a fortune propping up the people who hate them. Whenever people are polled on issues rather than parties, their results come out showing the populace is a long way left of the parties in terms of it's thinking. I think with a decent budget, a reasonable amount of coverage and a sensible approach, a vaguely educated electorate could produce a landslide.

[Mantis]

 

OBE, what kind of figure did you have in mind when you said "groundswell support"? I can't imagine a properly left-wing Labour hitting 40% of the vote.

 

I can. A sensible party with a left wing bias could really prosper in the current environment. We've given the current thinking 30 years and it's failed; in fact not only has it failed, it's collapsed catastrophically, then ignored it's own basic rules and allowed a socialist bailout where all the people got together and spent a fortune propping up the people who hate them. whenever people are polled on issues rather than parties, their results come out showing the populace is a long way left of the parties in terms of it's thinking. I think with a decent budget, a reasonable amount of coverage and a sensible approach, a vaguely educated electorate could produce a landslide.

 

I just can't see it, not least because Labour would position themselves more to the left if they thought it would give them more of a chance of winning power.

 

 

That doesn't really make any sense. UKIP started getting more coverage when they started making breakthroughs in the local elections in 2013 and got into double digits in the polls. If the newspapers just want to turn the Conservatives towards the right and get away from European regulation then it would make little sense to be supporting UKIP considering that on the whole UKIP are harming the Tories more than Labour.

Makes perfect sense. They aren't openly supporting UKIP, none of them. When the election nears they will all be backing the Tories. What they are doing is pushing UKIPs agenda forward just enough to nudge the Tories in the desired direction. Which incidentally is exactly what the left want the Greens to do to Labour.

Its all a little power game of tiny steps

 

They're playing a pretty poor power game then if that's the case, because all that does it make a Labour victory more likely.

[omariqy]

This general election is like voting between John Terry, Sinsa Mihajilovic, Suarez and Emre for the fair play award

Edited March 22, 2015 by omariqy

[bickster]

That doesn't really make any sense. UKIP started getting more coverage when they started making breakthroughs in the local elections in 2013 and got into double digits in the polls. If the newspapers just want to turn the Conservatives towards the right and get away from European regulation then it would make little sense to be supporting UKIP considering that on the whole UKIP are harming the Tories more than Labour.

Makes perfect sense. They aren't openly supporting UKIP, none of them. When the election nears they will all be backing the Tories. What they are doing is pushing UKIPs agenda forward just enough to nudge the Tories in the desired direction. Which incidentally is exactly what the left want the Greens to do to Labour.

Its all a little power game of tiny steps

They're playing a pretty poor power game then if that's the case, because all that does it make a Labour victory more likely.

Have you not noticed yet how Labour don't actually seem to want to get elected?

[Mantis]

 

 

 

That doesn't really make any sense. UKIP started getting more coverage when they started making breakthroughs in the local elections in 2013 and got into double digits in the polls. If the newspapers just want to turn the Conservatives towards the right and get away from European regulation then it would make little sense to be supporting UKIP considering that on the whole UKIP are harming the Tories more than Labour.

Makes perfect sense. They aren't openly supporting UKIP, none of them. When the election nears they will all be backing the Tories. What they are doing is pushing UKIPs agenda forward just enough to nudge the Tories in the desired direction. Which incidentally is exactly what the left want the Greens to do to Labour.

Its all a little power game of tiny steps

 

They're playing a pretty poor power game then if that's the case, because all that does it make a Labour victory more likely.

 

Have you not noticed yet how Labour don't actually seem to want to get elected?

 

What do you mean? Of course they want to get elected. Their problem is Ed Miliband, who only got to be leader because of the unions.

[bickster]

Do they really? Have a think about how many times Labour could really have hammered the Tories over a whole multitude of issues and they just meekly say its bad and carry on doing nothing about it. There are issues they could have been screaming from the rooftops about and they don't. There are issues they could be nailing the Tories to a mast over but they don't.

Its not incompetence, not even Labour are THAT useless

[Mantis]

Do they really? Have a think about how many times Labour could really have hammered the Tories over a whole multitude of issues and they just meekly say its bad and carry on doing nothing about it. There are issues they could have been screaming from the rooftops about and they don't. There are issues they could be nailing the Tories to a mast over but they don't.

Its not incompetence, not even Labour are THAT useless

This Labour leadership is incompetent - is it really that hard to believe? Not only that but it still wasn't that long ago that they were in government so on certain issues they can't hammer the Tories much on, like immigration for example. Not only that but they've had to contend with increased support for the Greens and the SNP.

 

So what do you think is going on then?

Edited March 22, 2015 by Mantis

[bickster]

In all honesty Mantis, I don't know. I've heard stories that advisors are deliberately telling Miliband to do the wrong thing. I'm not sure I believe that either but I also think clearly intelligent people (no matter what you think of Miliband and Balls et al they aren't unintelligent) can't be doing this badly given the ammunition they've been handed on a plate.

To my mind there is something that I can't put my finger on that is going on but as to what it is, I don't know.

[Mantis]

I don't think Miliband and Balls are unintelligent, I think they're just poor leaders.

 

Why would Labour not want to win the election? There's absolutely no evidence that they're deliberately trying not to win it. As I said, the reason they're not doing as well as they could be is a combination of factors: the unpopularity of Ed Miliband, the rise of the Greens and the SNP (UKIP seem to be denting them a tiny bit as well) and the fact that they've only got 5 years of coalition government to attack.

[Xann]

[Eames]

I sort of agree with what Bicks is saying. A "win" for Labour would be a disaster for the party. They've already said they won't change any of the economic decisions made by the Coalition - all they will gain is 5 years of the Tories and the Lib Dems saying "hang on - you've slagged off our decision making for 5 years and changed nothing? These are our successes whats going on?!"

 

Its also massively easier to be in oppositon rather than government - and Cameron would tear Milliband a weekly new one at PMQs.

[snowychap]

...and Cameron would tear Milliband a weekly new one at PMQs.

If Cameron's not still PM on May 8th then I'd be very surprised if he were to get a chance to remain as Tory leader.

[Eames]

You are of course correct. That sentence should have read.....

 

 

"...and Boris (  ) would tear Milliband a weekly new one at PMQs."

[snowychap]

You are of course correct. That sentence should have read.....

 

 

"...and Boris (  ) would tear Milliband a weekly new one at PMQs."

If they were to pick him (unlike most, I still can't see/believe they'd actually choose Boris as leader) then yes, he quite possibly would.

[tonyh29]

Osborne ,Gove , May and Boris would probably all put their name forward

 

Gove is probably the stand out amongst that lot  , May may be the more likely winner though , amusing at it would be I don't see it being Boris

[mjmooney]

May clearly set her stall out with today's blatantly Thatcheresque speech.