The 2015 General Election

[blandy]

Actually, it shows as well that "they're not all the same" - sadly he seems to be the exception, rather than the norm, but whatever people think of his merits or faults as PM, he's clearly different and better in this regard than the likes of T*******r and Blair and the two numpties caught in the latest sting.

[villarule123]

After reading the last few pages I'm going to extend my run of never voting in an election.

 

**** them all.

[tonyh29]

Money received for speeches by Rt Hon Gordon Brown 2014:

£48803

£28975

£48737

£64965

£48554

£47087

£45039

Expenses paid by hosts.

Each entry has the following footnote: "I am not receiving any money from this engagement personally. It is being held by the Office of Gordon and Sarah Brown to support my ongoing involvement in public life."

It has to be noted that Brown has been receiving this sort of remuneration since he left office in 2010.

The Office of Gordon and Sarah Brown is a registered company and so it has to be assumed that forming the company was a means of avoiding income tax.

He spends ALL of it on Charity. And serious good on him for that.

It's not quite ALL though is it as his expenses for him and his staff come out of it ... Maybe £40k for a flight and hotel in Nigeria is the going rate but it seems excessive to me...

His claim is always "I am not receiving any money from this engagement personally. It is being held by the Office of Gordon and Sarah Brown to support my ongoing involvement in public life."

he could well be genuine , he gave up his PM pension for example , so maybe deserves the benefit of the doubt but he is was a politician so hence not entirely trustworthy

[chrisp65]

I do think that Gordon Brown was probably one of the few principled politicians. Probably a bit of a flawed individual by all accounts, but in it for the right reasons.

[tonyh29]

I do think that Gordon Brown was probably one of the few principled politicians. Probably a bit of a flawed individual by all accounts, but in it for the right reasons.

Flawed is putting it mildly but yeah I could agree with that statement

[chrisp65]

 

No, it's a statement of fact.

 

What's extracted from that logic, is that the Green Party believe we should stop going on holiday.

We should also by obvious logical extension, stop buying cars, stop using dishwashers and washing machines, stop setting off fireworks, stop buying smartphones, stop eating meat, stop, stop, stop.

 

In an economy driven by GDP figures, where buying any old shit and then buying it again in this month's new colour is a good thing, this is not a message that goes down very well.

 

Are you on the wind up again Chris? Honest question as I know you've caught me out before. One thing it clearly isn't is a statement of fact, it might be an opinion, or it might be a deliberately controversial soundbite, but it's not a fact. 

 

The Green party doesn't believe you should stop going on holiday, but it does believe you should fly less. They definitely believe, as you have noted, that you should cut down on unnecessary and environmentally destructive consumption. So do I. 

 

Is it a message that goes down very well by those that benefit from a GDP-driven economy and the inequality that masks? No, absolutely not. That's why it's so important. 

 

 

 

Sorry Patrick, I keep trying to give this a proper response and it turns in to some boring stream of conciousness 3 page manifesto. I've written, re written and binned a load of tosh about this forum loving to mention cognitive dissonance. Can anything be more dissonant than our knowledge of where the world is heading coupled with our desire for this year's holiday to Florida?

 

Writing briefly and quickly is clumsy. She is right, knowingly acting in a way that contributes to global climate change injures people. Not today in a directly linked way. But with no less harm, eventually.

 

If we found out that the operators of Hinckley power station knew it was causing problems that would kill people in 75 years time but carried on anyway, would they be guilty? Of course they would. So why not conspicuous resource burning consumption?

 

A polite reduction in consumption is meaningless. What level of consumption by 'us' would be acceptable and manageable if copied by everyone in China, Malaysia, South Korea, Brazil, India, Pakistan......

 

What would be a sensible number of holiday flights per person, for 7 billion people? 

[VillaChris]

Natalie Bennett trying to avoid discussing her party's social housing policy.

 

This is the worst political interview I've heard since Ben Swain in The Thick of It. It's painful to listen to.

 

She makes Milliband sound like Churchill in interviews, really not a good communicator at all.

 

Greens need to get Caroline Lucas doing as much press as possible in the build up even if she isn't leader as she at least conveys their beliefs a little more professionally. 

[Jon]

Natalie Bennett is definitely not up to the job which is a shame. I've never really understood how she got the gig. Caroline Lucas on the other hand is terrific. The Greens would be in a far better place if she were still in charge.

Caroline Lucas decided, quite rightly I think, that as she had been elected by the people of Brighton to represent them, she would like to give that 100% focus. She dovetes her time to loads of worthy causes and has done a sterling job in highlighting poverty, inequality, injustice, greed, fracking, and various green issues these last 5 years, and she may not have been able to do all she has as MP of Brighton had she also been Leader of The Greens. As it is, I think she deserves to be re-elected in Brighton, and I think she will. She may not have been, had she been leader.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Jon

[Jon]

 

 but she is absolutely a credible politician which to be frank Bennett is not. 

Who is Frank Bennett?

[Jon]

No, it's a statement of fact.

 

What's extracted from that logic, is that the Green Party believe we should stop going on holiday.

 

Incorrect.

 

Add the words 'flying' and/or 'abroad' (unless you swim the channel) and you'd be closer to the truth. I don't think she has much against people cycling to Skeggy for a week off.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Jon

[tonyh29]

Natalie Bennett is definitely not up to the job which is a shame. I've never really understood how she got the gig. Caroline Lucas on the other hand is terrific. The Greens would be in a far better place if she were still in charge.

Caroline Lucas decided, quite rightly I think, that as she had been elected by the people of Brighton to represent them, she would like to give that 100% focus. She dovetes her time to loads of worthy causes and has done a sterling job in highlighting poverty, inequality, injustice, greed, fracking, and various green issues these last 5 years, and she may not have been able to do all she has as MP of Brighton had she also been Leader of The Greens. As it is, I think she deserves to be re-elected in Brighton, and I think she will. She may not have been, had she been leader.

The green lead Council is hugely unpopular in Brighton ( other than by vegetarian student cyclists ) ... To the point Lucas leaflets barely even mention the Green Party as she tries to distance herself from the council.

She could be in real trouble down there ... It's a key labour seat if they want Ed in at number 10 so if imagine labour will be campaigning hard there...... Best Lucas can hope for is that Miliband makes a personal visit and clinches it for her

Edited February 25, 2015 by tonyh29

[Jon]

 

 

Natalie Bennett is definitely not up to the job which is a shame. I've never really understood how she got the gig. Caroline Lucas on the other hand is terrific. The Greens would be in a far better place if she were still in charge.

Caroline Lucas decided, quite rightly I think, that as she had been elected by the people of Brighton to represent them, she would like to give that 100% focus. She dovetes her time to loads of worthy causes and has done a sterling job in highlighting poverty, inequality, injustice, greed, fracking, and various green issues these last 5 years, and she may not have been able to do all she has as MP of Brighton had she also been Leader of The Greens. As it is, I think she deserves to be re-elected in Brighton, and I think she will. She may not have been, had she been leader.

The green lead Council is hugely unpopular in Brighton ( other than by vegetarian student cyclists ) ... To the point Lucas leaflets barely even mention the Green Party as she tries to distance herself from the council.

She could be in real trouble down there ... It's a key labour seat if they want Ed in at number 10 so if imagine labour will be campaigning hard there...... Best Lucas can hope for is that Miliband makes a personal visit and clinches it for her

 

I am aware of that. However, the Local Council has very little/nothing to do with Lucas herself, who is MP for Brighton, not a local councillor. She's done a sterling job as MP, and recently won some sort of 'MP of the year' award. Hopefully, the ineptitude/inexperience of 'Kitkat' and his crew won't have done her too much damage, although there could be some sort of limited damaged done via association.

 

EDIT:

 

http://greenparty.org.uk/news/2014/11/06/caroline-lucas-named-mp-of-the-year/

 

Caroline Lucas named MP of the year

6 November 2014

More than 90 MPs from across the country nominated

Awarded in recognition of her work with minority and deprived communities

Brighton Pavilion MP “committed to continuing to do all I can to prevent people from being excluded from the political process”

View the video here

Caroline Lucas, MP for Brighton Pavilion, has been named UK MP of the year.

The prestigious award was announced at a ceremony in the Speaker’s House and presented by House of Commons Speaker, Rt Hon John Bercow MP.

More than 90 MPs from across the country were nominated for the award, and the winners were selected by an independent panel of judges.

Caroline took MP of the Year 2014. She said: “I'm honoured to have been nominated for this Patchwork Foundation award, and delighted to have won. Sadly there is still a long way to go in terms of addressing the huge underrepresentation of minority and deprived communities, both in society and in parliament itself. As MP for Brighton Pavilion, I am committed to continuing to do all I can to support and engage with those communities and to prevent people from being excluded from the political process.”

The award is backed by leading cross party figures, including Prime Minister David Cameron, Ed Miliband, Boris Johnson Nick Clegg, Shadow justice secretary Sadiq Khan and Speaker John Bercow. It is presented inassociation with Mosaic Associates, Three Faiths Forum, UpRising and The National Union of Students.

The Patchwork Foundation award was presented to Caroline in recognition of her work for minority and deprived communities and those often excluded from the political process.

- See more at: http://greenparty.org.uk/news/2014/11/06/caroline-lucas-named-mp-of-the-year/#sthash.qpjwIiFj.dpuf

Edited February 25, 2015 by Jon

[Jon]

 

It's a key labour seat if they want Ed in at number 10

 

I'd imagine they'd be better off letting Lucas have it, and concentrate their efforts elsewhere. There are more winnable seats than Brighton out there for them. However, they do have far more resources at their disposal than the Greens. I've not seen any recent polling from Brighton, I have to say.

[meregreen]

After reading the last few pages I'm going to extend my run of never voting in an election.

 

**** them all.

If you don't vote, you don't matter. Why do you think Osborne is falling over himself to help pensioners. It's because proportionally, they vote in large numbers. The opposite, sadly, seems to be the case for young people. It's part of the reason they are getting such a raw deal.Not voting is biting off your nose to spite your face. It's self indulgent at best, sheer idiocy at worst.

[chrisp65]

yeah, unless you're a fascist nut job, you should try and vote

 

lots of people have sacrificed quite a lot to get us the vote, don't give up, hold your nose and vote for the least bad

[Condimentalist]

 

 

No, it's a statement of fact.

 

What's extracted from that logic, is that the Green Party believe we should stop going on holiday.

We should also by obvious logical extension, stop buying cars, stop using dishwashers and washing machines, stop setting off fireworks, stop buying smartphones, stop eating meat, stop, stop, stop.

 

In an economy driven by GDP figures, where buying any old shit and then buying it again in this month's new colour is a good thing, this is not a message that goes down very well.

 

Are you on the wind up again Chris? Honest question as I know you've caught me out before. One thing it clearly isn't is a statement of fact, it might be an opinion, or it might be a deliberately controversial soundbite, but it's not a fact. 

 

The Green party doesn't believe you should stop going on holiday, but it does believe you should fly less. They definitely believe, as you have noted, that you should cut down on unnecessary and environmentally destructive consumption. So do I. 

 

Is it a message that goes down very well by those that benefit from a GDP-driven economy and the inequality that masks? No, absolutely not. That's why it's so important. 

 

 

 

Sorry Patrick, I keep trying to give this a proper response and it turns in to some boring stream of conciousness 3 page manifesto. I've written, re written and binned a load of tosh about this forum loving to mention cognitive dissonance. Can anything be more dissonant than our knowledge of where the world is heading coupled with our desire for this year's holiday to Florida?

 

Writing briefly and quickly is clumsy. She is right, knowingly acting in a way that contributes to global climate change injures people. Not today in a directly linked way. But with no less harm, eventually.

 

If we found out that the operators of Hinckley power station knew it was causing problems that would kill people in 75 years time but carried on anyway, would they be guilty? Of course they would. So why not conspicuous resource burning consumption?

 

A polite reduction in consumption is meaningless. What level of consumption by 'us' would be acceptable and manageable if copied by everyone in China, Malaysia, South Korea, Brazil, India, Pakistan......

 

What would be a sensible number of holiday flights per person, for 7 billion people? 

 

 

You won't be surprised to know that I don't have an answer to the questions posed on the last two lines, I don't think anybody does. What I do know is that business as usual hyper-consumption is definitely not sustainable, and one of my main motivations for voting for the Greens would be to have some voices in parliament making this point and not shying away from it just because it's outside mainstream elite discourse and might upset a few people on the FTSE. 

[MakemineVanilla]

 

After reading the last few pages I'm going to extend my run of never voting in an election.

 

**** them all.

If you don't vote, you don't matter. Why do you think Osborne is falling over himself to help pensioners. It's because proportionally, they vote in large numbers. The opposite, sadly, seems to be the case for young people. It's part of the reason they are getting such a raw deal.Not voting is biting off your nose to spite your face. It's self indulgent at best, sheer idiocy at worst.

 

 

How so?

[Jon]

 

 

After reading the last few pages I'm going to extend my run of never voting in an election.

 

**** them all.

If you don't vote, you don't matter. Why do you think Osborne is falling over himself to help pensioners. It's because proportionally, they vote in large numbers. The opposite, sadly, seems to be the case for young people. It's part of the reason they are getting such a raw deal.Not voting is biting off your nose to spite your face. It's self indulgent at best, sheer idiocy at worst.

 

 

How so?

 

You're asking him for a list?  

 

Just off the top of my head, he could go with:

 

Tuition fees

Zero Hours Contracts

[meregreen]

 

 

After reading the last few pages I'm going to extend my run of never voting in an election.

 

**** them all.

If you don't vote, you don't matter. Why do you think Osborne is falling over himself to help pensioners. It's because proportionally, they vote in large numbers. The opposite, sadly, seems to be the case for young people. It's part of the reason they are getting such a raw deal.Not voting is biting off your nose to spite your face. It's self indulgent at best, sheer idiocy at worst.

 

 

How so?

 

Politicians don't legislate for us individually. Demographic grouping matters to them. It stands to reason they will chase the votes of those they think will vote. Thats not to say they wont be legislating for all of us in some way or other, just that if they perceive that a certain group of people profess to have little or no interest in voting, then they will prioritize those that will.They shouldn't, but they most certainly will. Vote, it's in your own best interests to do so.

[Jon]

 

  biting off your nose to spite your face.

 

That's nigh on impossible, isn't it?

 

I've heard of cutting one's nose off, but biting it off? You'd need some superbly over extendable lower jaw to pull that off!