Genie Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 1 minute ago, Awol said: Yep. If not for blind luck and the bravery of a few off duty squaddies on a train this would be the second mass attack in Europe in two months. I think Merkel could find herself in real trouble now, the Germans have literally no idea who is in their country and they are still rolling in at the rate of 10,000 per day. In reality the overwhelming majority are decent people fleeing hell, but they won't all be (as we now know with a degree of confidence) and 5-6 guys can cause absolute carnage. Schengen is already in tatters, this might be the thing that kills it completely. Once free movement goes it's all downhill from there. I agree with all apart from the last sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendelc Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Agreed . Can't see many borders staying open . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 1 hour ago, Awol said: I'll give this one more go and if it's still not clear to you then let's call it quits. Yes of course Wahhabism is the foundation of the Saudi State in partnership with the Al Saud dynasty. Wahhabism is the theological doctrine that underpins the nastier Jihadi movements - see video clip linked earlier for evidence. Therefore Saudi Arabia is really indivisible from Al Qaeda, Islamic State et al, except for the leadership issue - the Al Saud believe they should be in charge and Al Baghdadi reckons he's the gaffer in waiting, before him Bin Laden quite fancied the job. That's the basic conflict between the Saud/Wahhabi establishment and IS/AQ, the actual religious belief systems are the same - more golden delicious vs Granny Smiths than comparing apples and oranges. Saudi Arabia is the ideological inspiration for modern Jihadi terrorism and that is the cancer that the world needs to deal with. That is not generalising about Muslims or Arabs, only a Saudi would be conceited enough to believe that a criticism of their own deeply malevolent and medieval world view represented a criticism of all Muslims or Arabs. Wahhabism is good old fascism dressed up in religious garb - and without the snappy uniforms. It needs to be treated by the world in exactly the same manner and utterly destroyed. I can't believe how many inaccurate views you have expressed as facts in this post. And please don't make up a new expression called "jihadi terrorism". Jihad is something different from terrorism and they can't be put together. Like heavenly hell. Or white black. There is no such thing. To put it short. There are two big powers on the Middle East that stirs the pot (Saudi Arabia and Iran), along with some smaller ones (Bahrain, Iraq) and some "independent" groups like ISIS, AL-Qaida, Al-Nusra, Hizbollah. These "independent" groups are supported by the big and small powers in the Middle East and big and small powers in the west, in this case USA (and CIA), Britain, Russia, China etc... A nice melting pot. Along that, you have a Israel with its own stirring spoon. How do you want to get rid of wahhabism? Can you get rid of Catholicism the same way? No. And even if wahhabism goes away, will life for Sunni Muslims in Iraq get better or will it get even worse than it was before ISIS came? You do know that ISIS came about because of the Iraqi shia rule that made no room for Sunni Muslims that were powerless and poor after the US invasion? Please don't simplify it to just blame on the Saudis or Iranians or Muslims or Shia or Sunni or Wahhabi or whoever, but still keeping the western countries as blame free. It is disrespectful to the innocent people who died in Paris, in Beirut, in Syria, in Iraq and everywhere in the world. What happens in this world today is everybody's responsibility and the solution lies within the big powers in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 4 minutes ago, Awol said: Schengen is already in tatters, this might be the thing that kills it completely. Once free movement goes it's all downhill from there. I think that's something we all ought to be worried about. A few terrorists killing (a few hundreds of) people in Western Europe is not going to bring an end to Europe as we know it. A Europe with countries 'retaking control of their borders definitively' (Marine Le Pen) and reinforcing that control by walls, fences and the use of force is much more likely to succeed there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Awol Posted November 14, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) Frank Gardner the BBC security correspondent reporting UK officials as stating this was a self contained cell of graduates from Syria. If correct that's the awful and entirely obvious outcome so many predicted would happen. I got shouted down for saying this before but anyone who goes over there to fight with Jihadis should never come back. Edited November 14, 2015 by Awol Tried and failed to embed a tweet - it's a new thing for me... 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 19 minutes ago, Awol said: Frank Gardner the BBC security correspondent reporting UK officials as stating this was a self contained cell of graduates from Syria. If correct that's the awful and entirely obvious outcome so many predicted would happen. I got shouted down for saying this before but anyone who goes over there to fight with Jihadis should never come back. what about their human rights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 They shouldn't come back. They should be cheese gratered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 2 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: They shouldn't come back. They should be cheese gratered. and then put on my toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I said when the refugee crisis first started but I'll say again, men of fighting age that are from the middle east should not be allowed into Europe, they should be immediately deported back. Women, children and the elderly, fine, but men of fighting age proves to be too much of a risk. As we have found out last night, and will doubtless see again in the future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC_Hitz Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Got one of them at the Belgian border apparently. "Job done, gun' get me a waffle " " can you roll down your window, sir?" "Oh allah" Please please put your thumb and forefinger together and reach for the salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The_Rev Posted November 14, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted November 14, 2015 "Sorry kids, Daddy can't come with us to our new life in Europe. Just in case he scares the locals." 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Awol said: I got shouted down for saying this before but anyone who goes over there to fight with Jihadis should never come back. Were you shouted down for saying they should never come back or was your opinion questioned because you suggested that anyone going (to join IS - though I guess possibly anyone else) should be the object of extrajudicial execution? Was your opinion questioned (not shouted down) because you were, explicitly, saying that there should be no trial of anyone once ID'd? Was your opinion questioned (not shouted down) because, at the heart of it, was the foregoing of any kind of due process or recognition for international law (perhaps with prescience - see the new Ministerial Code)? Edited November 14, 2015 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 1 minute ago, The_Rev said: "Sorry kids, Daddy can't come with us to our new life in Europe. Just in case he scares the locals." see your point definitely but it works both ways "your dad got killed by a refugee in the name of allah" majority of refugees are not going to commit violence but some will and lives will be lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted November 14, 2015 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted November 14, 2015 Closing our borders is the equivalent to staying in the house, drawing the blinds and hoping the world changes. The sad truth is that in order to fix this, we need to live with the idea that there will be more attacks and that we will have to find a way to live with them, without reacting. We can't fix this problem in Europe and we can't fix it through more conflict in the Middle East. It's not a matter of trying to stop everyone who wants to do us harm from doing us harm; it's a matter of creating circumstances in which less people want to do us harm. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I kinda agree with that. The current cyclic process of bombing their homeland gives them the justification in their minds to do these things... and then we react by more bombing them some more. We need to break that somehow. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted November 14, 2015 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted November 14, 2015 8 hours ago, mjmooney said: The words of La Marseillaise are a bit chilling in the current climate. English translation: Arise children of the fatherland The day of glory has arrived ....Tremble, tyrants and traitors The shame of all good men Tremble! Your parricidal schemes Will receive their just reward Against you we are all soldiers If they fall, our young heros France will bear new ones Ready to join the fight against you Frenchmen, as magnanimous warriors Bear or hold back your blows Spare these sad victims That they regret taking up arms against us But not these bloody despots These accomplices of Bouillé All these tigers who pitilessly Ripped out their mothers' wombs We too shall enlist When our elders' time has come To add to the list of deeds Inscribed upon their tombs We are much less jealous of surviving them Than of sharing their coffins We shall have the sublime pride Of avenging or joining them Drive on sacred patriotism Support our avenging arms Liberty, cherished liberty Join the struggle with your defenders Under our flags, let victory Hurry to your manly tone So that in death your enemies See your triumph and our glory! That's the thing isn't it. You know, these people from abroad, with their funny ways and their written words and songs. They're not like us - you've only got to look at that sort of thing to know it and it shows they're all murderous of intent and fired up by this kind of indoctrination. They teach that stuff in their schools, you know - to little kids, even and they sing their vile hate at rallies and "celebrations" - no wonder they grow up into, well, people who hate the West. We should definitely invade them and put an end to it for good and proper. ...what? French national anthem?Oh! sorry I though you were on about the Islams. My mistake 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 as i stated before its unwinnable. hopefully one day things will calm, but your looking at a very long time if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) Why do these terrorists always seem to carry their passports around with them The majority of them were all carrying theirs apparently one of them came over to greece from syria with the flow of refugees last october Edited November 14, 2015 by AshVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 1 minute ago, AshVilla said: Why do these terrorists always seem to carry their passports around with them It does seem slightly strange. Perhaps they needed to cash a cheque on the way? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) 9 minutes ago, AshVilla said: Why do these terrorists always seem to carry their passports around with them The majority of them were all carrying theirs apparently one of them came over to greece from syria with the flow of refugees last october i read on reddit that police can detain you if you dont have a valid i.d on you or something in france. So i imagine you do whatever you can to make sure something doesnt stop you from going to paradiise. (if car got pulled over or something) Edited November 14, 2015 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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