Paul Lambert

[Big_John_10]

I see in the piss you off thread those who have criticised lambert and our performances this season are delusional because we apparently have expectations of winning the league. I shit you not.

Since this is clearly targetted at me I will answer you.

If you are unable to extract meaning from posts beyond a literal reading that is your failing not mine.

However, in an attempt to be educational I will try and help you.

Clearly noone expects Villa to win the league, the point I was making, that you rather spectacularly missed, is that the expectations of fans do not match the reality of our situation. The constantly bleating about "how far we've fallen" and "this great club is in ruins" are laughable. We are not a great club, and haven't been since the 1890s. That is not solely Lambert's or Randy's fault.

We're better than losing 47% of the time and battling relegation. Expecting more than that doesn't seem too unrealistic to me.

I'd agree with you there BJ10. We are a mid table team. 10th is about right. More than that is a bonus, less than that isn't ideal. Relegation would be a disaster.

Since we won the League last (with thanks to Morely) our average league position is 10th, thats about where we should be.

We just snuck past that 4 years ago and haven't achieved it for the 3 years that followed. Also looks unlikely we'll manage it next year given theres been no improvement in 2 years. On top of that our current fans have experienced more losses at home than any supporters in our 140 year history.

I'm not sure why it pisses you off that fans expect better.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Big_John_10

[penguin]

I see in the piss you off thread those who have criticised lambert and our performances this season are delusional because we apparently have expectations of winning the league. I shit you not.

Since this is clearly targetted at me I will answer you.

If you are unable to extract meaning from posts beyond a literal reading that is your failing not mine.

However, in an attempt to be educational I will try and help you.

Clearly noone expects Villa to win the league, the point I was making, that you rather spectacularly missed, is that the expectations of fans do not match the reality of our situation. The constantly bleating about "how far we've fallen" and "this great club is in ruins" are laughable. We are not a great club, and haven't been since the 1890s. That is not solely Lambert's or Randy's fault.

We're better than losing 47% of the time and battling relegation. Expecting more than that doesn't seem too unrealistic to me.

This is my opinion too. Saying the fans are expecting too much, for the most part, is a load of rubbish as the vast majority aren't idiots, know we aren't the club we once were but just because we aren't willing to lie down and watch a manager and owner take us to record-breakingly poor levels without protesting doesn't mean we are expecting to win the treble

[Eames]

 

We just snuck past that 4 years ago and haven't achieved it for the 3 years that followed. Also looks unlikely we'll manage it next year given theres been no improvement in 2 years. On top of that our current fans have experienced more losses at home than any supporters in our 140 year history.

I'm not sure why it pisses you off that fans expect better.

 

 

Its not the expectation that pisses me off. Its the whining and the rhetoric that gets me. I want and expect Villa to do well, I expect the players to give 100%, not to **** up, and the manager to know his arse from his elbow tactically.

 

The delusion of grandeur is what really gets to me.

[mikeyp102]

I note that throughout the season some people have stated that we were tenth and that is about the position we should be. We are now falling down the table, and it's not inconceivable that we would finish 15thbor below. So genuine question would the people still in favour of lambert see this as acceptable considering all season it has been said we should finish mid table?

[shaggy]

Just for the record.

 

 

I refer the honorable gentleman to the answer I gave moments ago.

 

  

On Topic in its entirety.

 

Conspiracy Nuts, zealots and chronic over-reactors.

 

You get far more sense in the Religion Thread.

It's absolute bullshit isn't it?

 

For all the people that take the piss out of RAWK or Red Cafe, if people gave VillaTalk some serious attention we'd be a laughing stock.

Trouble is, just like arguing with zealots or Conspiracy nuts there is no reasoning with them.

 

The notion that AVFC is a "great club" is laughable, they look at "7 League titles" most of which won before indoor toilets became the norm and assume we should be winning the League. That pisses me off too.

Just for the record.

 

hy·per·bo·le

  [hahy-pur-buh-lee]  Show IPA

noun Rhetoric .

1.

obvious and intentional exaggeration.

2.

an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait aneternity.”

Exaggerations tend to have the basis of truth. You were just inaccurate then and that's my point.

[ArteSuave]

Saying the fans are expecting too much, for the most part, is a load of rubbish as the vast majority aren't idiots

 

The vast majority would still be singing for Delfouneso to come on if he was still on our bench instead of Blackpool's (or Coventry's or whatever bench he's currently on).

[Big_John_10]

I love how finishing bottom half is shrugged off as not ideal.

Before Lerner we'd finished bottom half 3 times out of 14 seasons. We've now done it 3 times in a row. And people unhappy with that is pissing other fans off? Crazy.

When we were doing better than this under Doug and people weren't happy did it piss others off then?

Such a pathetic attitude towards our current owner from some.

[shaggy]

We just snuck past that 4 years ago and haven't achieved it for the 3 years that followed. Also looks unlikely we'll manage it next year given theres been no improvement in 2 years. On top of that our current fans have experienced more losses at home than any supporters in our 140 year history.

I'm not sure why it pisses you off that fans expect better.

 

Its not the expectation that pisses me off. Its the whining and the rhetoric that gets me. I want and expect Villa to do well, I expect the players to give 100%, not to **** up, and the manager to know his arse from his elbow tactically.

 

The delusion of grandeur is what really gets to me.

What delusion of grandeur?

There is no expectation of top six finishes or trophies. The whining as you call it is posters criticising performances by the team and manager. Have you watched us at all over the past two seasons in particular?

[DelboyVilla]

 

Lambert's the man for the job and, in three years time when he is being linked to moves away from the club, the self same people who want him out now will be pleading for him to stay and labelling him "traitor" should he go.  Such is the warped mentality of the football supporter.

I've seen some good 'hypotheticals' posted on here in the last couple of days but this one tops the lot!

 

Or here's another scenario for which there is more evidence of coming true-

 

Lambert's not the man for the job and in three years time when we are mid table in Division 1 the self same people who were wanting him to stay have been protesting outside the ground for the past two years for him to be sacked. After the latest home loss to local rivals Walsall it is impossible to reach the playoffs this year. Lambert said we go again next year with a new five year plan.

 

Clearly noone expects Villa to win the league, the point I was making, that you rather spectacularly missed, is that the expectations of fans do not match the reality of our situation. The constantly bleating about "how far we've fallen" and "this great club is in ruins" are laughable. We are not a great club, and haven't been since the 1890s. That is not solely Lambert's or Randy's fault.

 

Why aren't we a great club? We are one of seven teams ever present in the Premier League, surely that is something to be proud of and as I have said before the other six ever presents are all in the top seven with Man City the only team to break into this club for very obvious reasons. We are the only ever present never to have qualified for the CL places i.e. the top 4. Why is this and why are we fighting relegation every year? One reason and one reason only Randy 'F@cking'Lerner!

[andyh]

 

 

We just snuck past that 4 years ago and haven't achieved it for the 3 years that followed. Also looks unlikely we'll manage it next year given theres been no improvement in 2 years. On top of that our current fans have experienced more losses at home than any supporters in our 140 year history.

I'm not sure why it pisses you off that fans expect better.

 

 

Its not the expectation that pisses me off. Its the whining and the rhetoric that gets me. I want and expect Villa to do well, I expect the players to give 100%, not to **** up, and the manager to know his arse from his elbow tactically.

 

The delusion of grandeur is what really gets to me.

 

Its the implication of 'better fan than you' that really pisses me off.

[DelboyVilla]

 

 

We just snuck past that 4 years ago and haven't achieved it for the 3 years that followed. Also looks unlikely we'll manage it next year given theres been no improvement in 2 years. On top of that our current fans have experienced more losses at home than any supporters in our 140 year history.

I'm not sure why it pisses you off that fans expect better.

 

Its not the expectation that pisses me off. Its the whining and the rhetoric that gets me. I want and expect Villa to do well, I expect the players to give 100%, not to **** up, and the manager to know his arse from his elbow tactically.

 

The delusion of grandeur is what really gets to me.

What delusion of grandeur?

There is no expectation of top six finishes or trophies. The whining as you call it is posters criticising performances by the team and manager. Have you watched us at all over the past two seasons in particular?

 

 

I expect top 6 finishes to be honest and that's where we should be as a club. That's my expectation and I don't care what others expect.

[ArteSuave]

 

There is no expectation of top six finishes or trophies.

 

I expect top 6 finishes to be honest

 

Well that settles that then.

[Big_John_10]

Delusion of grandeur? By expecting us not to lose more games in a year than the previous 140 years? By expecting us to not lose 47% of the time? By expecting us to not play atrocious football?

What is it that people expect that's so unrealistic it pisses you off?

[lmarsha_926]

Mat Kendrick confirms Lambert is very unlikely to get sacked unless we go down and he is doing what the board want, The boards aim is to survive aswell as reducing spending. That is who you need to be asking questions about before Lambert

[Eames]

Delusion of grandeur? By expecting us not to lose more games in a year than the previous 140 years? By expecting us to not lose 47% of the time? By expecting us to not play atrocious football?

What is it that people expect that's so unrealistic it pisses you off?

You are conflating two totally seperate issues there. As you well know none of those specifics are unrealistic at all and they are totally valid criticisms.

 

What is unrealistic is all the other nonsesne about "this great club" "how have we fallen so far" and the other psuedo emotional bullshit that certain individuals trot out.

[Big_John_10]

It makes no sense to me. Watching the club you support be shit is classed as less than ideal. People unhappy with the club they support being shit pisses you off.

I find it very strange.

[DelboyVilla]

 

 

There is no expectation of top six finishes or trophies.

 

I expect top 6 finishes to be honest

 

Well that settles that then.

 

 

Just stating my opinion. And yes for me my mind is made up.

 

Poor management from the very top of our club has caused this situation and until there is a change from the chairman to the tea lady then we will always be the play thing of a spoilt little rich boy after he's got bored with it.

 

Eames you talk of the 1890's well check your history because we had a little bit of success 90 years later in the 1980's which many of us can remember.

[penguin]

Don't see how people expressing frustration over the fact we've gone from comfortably pushing from mid-table to back-to-back relegation scraps is spouting "pseudo emotional bullshit" about how far we've fallen, seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[GENTLEMAN]

All fair to say, but all assumption of the facts.

Trees – I think you would agree the majority of what is written on this forum is assumption of facts. 

 

Interesting 'balance'. Do you have any concrete knowledge of Lambert 'identifying' players and then being 'refused' backing? Or is this, as I suspect, 'balance' according to the Gentleman point of view?

No, I do not have “concrete” knowledge of him being refused backing. I do know, and Lambert has said himself, that we have enquired about quality players but have been unable to complete deals due to imposed financial restrictions. Most recently this was Lewis Holtby, in the past it has been Lukaku and Kiyotake. This does reveal Lerner has refused to back Lambert on many occasions, and some will argue to the detriment of the club.

 

No, it is “balance” according to the central point of our debate, which is, stated by you, “the fact that he (Lambert) had been backed in all of his decisions”. While Lambert has been clearly backed by Lerner many times, it is wrong to suggest PL has been backed in all of his decisions. By the way, it has nothing to do with my perspective.

 

It is 'interconnected and relevant' by those who choose to deflect one problem onto the other. The owner is not going any time soon, unless the golden sheikh that we all crave bobs up tomorrow. That is therefore a complex problem that has to remain on the shelf.

However, the abject displays on the pitch in front of the season ticket holders is something that can and should be addressed.

I am not deflecting any problem on to another person or issue. I think it is best to treat the club as a whole given, from what we can tell, the relationship Lerner & Lambert have established.

 

Is it fair to blame the quality of the squad solely on Lambert, when there is clear evidence that Lambert has enquired about players that would have likely enhanced the quality of performances and produced better results in the short term?

 

I understand people want change at the club, but it needs to be significant not superficial window dressing change. The club seriously needs new ownership to get back challenging, or failing that Lerner must relax the finances and bring in the quality that we sorely need to be successful. Regardless of the manager, it is clear we cannot compete when we suffer injuries to key players. What the club needs is investment and continuity.

 

Unfortunately, with what we see on the pitch, they could give the job to a local Sunday league manager for the rest of the season and he would probably set the team up better than Lambert. Lambert leaving now would not make things worse, and may make things better enough to at least get us over the line.

There is nothing to suggest we will get better if we sack Lambert, it would be a foolish risk. It is important to remember we are in the early stages of a rebuilding project, which was agreed by Lerner & Lambert.

 

It is time to get behind everybody at the club for the remaining games, support and encouragement is vital now.

Edited April 7, 2014 by GENTLEMAN

[meregreen]

Delusion of grandeur? By expecting us not to lose more games in a year than the previous 140 years? By expecting us to not lose 47% of the time? By expecting us to not play atrocious football?

What is it that people expect that's so unrealistic it pisses you off?

You are conflating two totally seperate issues there. As you well know none of those specifics are unrealistic at all and they are totally valid criticisms.

 

What is unrealistic is all the other nonsesne about "this great club" "how have we fallen so far" and the other psuedo emotional bullshit that certain individuals trot out.

But we are a great club, albeit not a great team. And speaking as someone who was at Rotterdam in 82, we have fallen a long way. All I know is, fans of Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal, and a few others besides, would not tolerate such mediocrity, so why should we. In our time we have been and should be on a par with those clubs. We are the Second city of this nation. To expect a level of standing within the game commensurate with that, is not in my opinion unreasonable.