StefanAVFC Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Martinez is hated more at Everton than Lambert is here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 22, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yep. I was talking to an Everton fan this morning about this. Similar situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yep. I was talking to an Everton fan this morning about this. Similar situation. Wait until they have had 3 seasons of it then they can moan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 You keep saying this but we really aren't creating lots of good chances. In defence I give Lambert most of the credit. Signed okore and cissokho, is getting the best out of Hutton and Clark and baker are starting to improve. He's got them organised and they're solid because of it.We had 4 great chances vs Liverpool, 2 great chances near the end of the Swansea game. Leicester at home we should of scored 5. At the end of the Utd match we could of scored a couple. The chances are there. As for the defence, how does Lambert take more credit for players playing well than the actual player themselves, I really don't get that type of thinking. Yes he takes some credit but ultimately it's the players who are responsible for how they play. In the last few games we've created some good chances but we're not in this because of the last few games. Lambert has been in charge for 98 games and we average less than a goal a game. That's not down to missing a few chances in the last few games. We're on course to be the lowest scorers in the history of the league. That doesn't happen because a few chances are missed in a handful of games. There's is a serious issue with our attacking unit, with the coaching, the way they are asked to play and of course the way they are performing themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Premier League>>>>>>Championship. Championship is a very tough league. We should know, we usualy get beat by them in the cups Easy mistake to make, you're thinking of League One . . . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted January 22, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted January 22, 2015 You keep saying this but we really aren't creating lots of good chances. In defence I give Lambert most of the credit. Signed okore and cissokho, is getting the best out of Hutton and Clark and baker are starting to improve. He's got them organised and they're solid because of it. We had 4 great chances vs Liverpool, 2 great chances near the end of the Swansea game. Leicester at home we should of scored 5. At the end of the Utd match we could of scored a couple. The chances are there. As for the defence, how does Lambert take more credit for players playing well than the actual player themselves, I really don't get that type of thinking. Yes he takes some credit but ultimately it's the players who are responsible for how they play. In the last few games we've created some good chances but we're not in this because of the last few games. Lambert has been in charge for 98 games and we average less than a goal a game. That's not down to missing a few chances in the last few games. We're on course to be the lowest scorers in the history of the league. That doesn't happen because a few chances are missed in a handful of games. There's is a serious issue with our attacking unit, with the coaching, the way they are asked to play and of course the way they are performing themselves. Well, I think by definition, that is exactly how it happens isn't it? missing chances to score? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 You keep saying this but we really aren't creating lots of good chances. In defence I give Lambert most of the credit. Signed okore and cissokho, is getting the best out of Hutton and Clark and baker are starting to improve. He's got them organised and they're solid because of it.We had 4 great chances vs Liverpool, 2 great chances near the end of the Swansea game. Leicester at home we should of scored 5. At the end of the Utd match we could of scored a couple. The chances are there. As for the defence, how does Lambert take more credit for players playing well than the actual player themselves, I really don't get that type of thinking. Yes he takes some credit but ultimately it's the players who are responsible for how they play. In the last few games we've created some good chances but we're not in this because of the last few games. Lambert has been in charge for 98 games and we average less than a goal a game. That's not down to missing a few chances in the last few games. We're on course to be the lowest scorers in the history of the league. That doesn't happen because a few chances are missed in a handful of games. There's is a serious issue with our attacking unit, with the coaching, the way they are asked to play and of course the way they are performing themselves. Well, I think by definition, that is exactly how it happens isn't it? missing chances to score? Yes OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Isa Posted January 22, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) We have had good chances and haven't taken any, that's the main point I'm trying to make. If our strikers took a few of them we would be in a much better place. Why are you trying to protect players who are under performing? The blame doesn't just lie with the manager and if you were watching all the games you would know that we have created good chances. We're obviously watching different games. Regarding the assignment of blame, the fundamental difference between us is that I haven't reduced the manager to little more than a ceremonial role. He is ultimately responsible for the performance and results. When a team has produced 0.5 goals per game with over half the season gone, then there is something intrinsically wrong with the system/approach (not simply that we need to be a little bit more clinical) which in turn is the sole responsibility of the manager. Edited January 22, 2015 by Isa 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 We have had good chances and haven't taken any, that's the main point I'm trying to make. If our strikers took a few of them we would be in a much better place. Why are you trying to protect players who are under performing? The blame doesn't just lie with the manager and if you were watching all the games you would know that we have created good chances. We're obviously watching different games. Regarding the assignment of blame, the fundamental difference between us is that I haven't reduced the manager to little more than a ceremonial role. He is ultimately responsible for the performance and results. When a team has produced 0.5 goals per game with over half the season gone, then there is something intrinsically wrong with the system/approach which in turn is the sole responsibility of the manager. There is a lot at this club that needs changing, the whole set up is crap IMO. We need a new manager, a new assistant and new coaches to inject some life. The club is slowly dying and Lambert will not turn this round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnski Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) We have had good chances and haven't taken any, that's the main point I'm trying to make. If our strikers took a few of them we would be in a much better place. Why are you trying to protect players who are under performing? The blame doesn't just lie with the manager and if you were watching all the games you would know that we have created good chances.We're obviously watching different games. Regarding the assignment of blame, the fundamental difference between us is that I haven't reduced the manager to little more than a ceremonial role. He is ultimately responsible for the performance and results. When a team has produced 0.5 goals per game with over half the season gone, then there is something intrinsically wrong with the system/approach (not simply that we need to be a little bit more clinical) which in turn is the sole responsibility of the manager.I suppose when his 2 major attacking signings suffer major injuries that would have an effect on our scoring stats.? I'm referring to the last batch of games in which we have missed plenty of decent chances and the players have to take responsibility. If we weren't creating anything and were being turned over easily by teams then I'd fully blame the manager. For the people saying Lambert isn't getting the best out of the players, what's the reason for the defence playing so good? Nothing is black and white and the blame lies with both the manager and the players just like the credit should go to the players and manager when we are playing well. Edited January 22, 2015 by Bunnski 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 We're obviously watching different games. Regarding the assignment of blame, the fundamental difference between us is that I haven't reduced the manager to little more than a ceremonial role. He is ultimately responsible for the performance and results. When a team has produced 0.5 goals per game with over half the season gone, then there is something intrinsically wrong with the system/approach (not simply that we need to be a little bit more clinical) which in turn is the sole responsibility of the manager. Sounds very impressive, but doesn't mean very much. You can hand him the responsibility all you want, but whether we'd be better off without him is the real question, and it's very very far from clear what the answer to that is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Martinez is hated more at Everton than Lambert is here. Really? you know that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 f we weren't creating anything and were being turned over easily by teams then I'd fully blame the manager. This has been happening quite a bit this season. It happened in our last away game against Leicester. The whole season we've struggled to get anything from games and created little. You see the games completely different to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adw95 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 BORING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 BORING. Thought we were playing Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 f we weren't creating anything and were being turned over easily by teams then I'd fully blame the manager. This has been happening quite a bit this season. It happened in our last away game against Leicester. The whole season we've struggled to get anything from games and created little. You see the games completely different to me. To be fair, so do I if you think we've been turned over easily in most games this season. There's a difference between that and not creating much. For me, I think Leicester and Everton are the only games where we've been incredibly poor and easily turned over (from memory?). However, we've obviously struggled to create much in a plethora of other games - and this has been our downfall. We've essentially been pretty hard to beat on the whole, but absolutely woeful in front of goal. For those saying "what happens if the manager goes" etc, the only thing I'd say on this is that the owner isn't going to fire himself/miraculously find a sale and we're not going to sack our entire first team for underperformance. I certainly don't apportion all blame to Lambert like plenty of others, but he is in a job that is purely down to results. We could be playing crap football (as we have been) and be in 7th place - he'd be very safe. We could be playing fantastic football and lie in 19th - he wouldn't (or shouldn't) be safe. Irrespective of where you consider things to be going wrong (already discussed), the buck does stop with the manager. If things need a freshen up - which they arguably do now - the only huge thing that can realistically be changed is the manager. Pretty much as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 We're obviously watching different games. Regarding the assignment of blame, the fundamental difference between us is that I haven't reduced the manager to little more than a ceremonial role. He is ultimately responsible for the performance and results. When a team has produced 0.5 goals per game with over half the season gone, then there is something intrinsically wrong with the system/approach (not simply that we need to be a little bit more clinical) which in turn is the sole responsibility of the manager. Sounds very impressive, but doesn't mean very much. You can hand him the responsibility all you want, but whether we'd be better off without him is the real question, and it's very very far from clear what the answer to that is. No it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 We're obviously watching different games. Regarding the assignment of blame, the fundamental difference between us is that I haven't reduced the manager to little more than a ceremonial role. He is ultimately responsible for the performance and results. When a team has produced 0.5 goals per game with over half the season gone, then there is something intrinsically wrong with the system/approach (not simply that we need to be a little bit more clinical) which in turn is the sole responsibility of the manager. Sounds very impressive, but doesn't mean very much. You can hand him the responsibility all you want, but whether we'd be better off without him is the real question, and it's very very far from clear what the answer to that is. It's simple, the answer is yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I suppose when his 2 major attacking signings suffer major injuries that would have an effect on our scoring stats.? I'm referring to the last batch of games in which we have missed plenty of decent chances and the players have to take responsibility. If we weren't creating anything and were being turned over easily by teams then I'd fully blame the manager. For the people saying Lambert isn't getting the best out of the players, what's the reason for the defence playing so good? Nothing is black and white and the blame lies with both the manager and the players just like the credit should go to the players and manager when we are playing well. By the last batch of games, you basically mean a 10 minute period against Liverpool and a couple of chances against Palace? Not good enough. Also, interesting that the strikers (namely Benteke) are being blamed for our recent goal drought while his injury is being used as an excuse for the overall goal tally in the first sentence of your post. As for the defence, it means little when it is totally offset by the worst strike rate this league has ever seen. My theory is that Lambert is incapable of striking a balance in a team. His Norwich side were fuelled by a real gung-ho, outscore the opposition approach. He tried to implement similar here during his first season and almost got us relegated with the neglectful standard of defending. He then made an effort to improve it the next season but it came at the expense of McLeish football. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Sounds very impressive, but doesn't mean very much. You can hand him the responsibility all you want, but whether we'd be better off without him is the real question, and it's very very far from clear what the answer to that is. I'm not keen on arguments designed to lead to a hypothetical quagmire. I want the manager out on the obvious basis that another manager can do better, those content with the job he is doing would disagree. It's basically an extention of the overall debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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