Villanun Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 We'll never agree on the percentages, but I think the point is that it should be more complicated than hanging it all on the manager. All very well, but the basic principle of top level football management is (everywhere apart from AVFC, it seems) I doubt whether Lambert would want it any other way (because, if results start to pick up, of course, it's "more complicated" than putting it all down to his good management). I'm not sure he will be thanking his apologists for presenting him as an emasculated figure, not really in control of what his team produces on the pitch. This post is 100% logical and correct, as long as you don't think the budget is of any relevance. He's running a race with a wooden leg. If he wins, is the conclusion going to be that he's amazing at running with one leg, or that running with one leg is a piece of cake? And if he loses, will the conclusion be that he shouldn't be racing against two-legged runners if he only had one leg, or will it be that budget constraints meant that he couldn't buy a good enough prosthetic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcowans21 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Sick of hearing about restrictions and budgets. Mick McCarthy has spent £10000 this season and look what he is doing with Ipswich. Gary Rowett has hardly spent anything and reviving the Blues. Edited January 22, 2015 by sidcowans21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Premier League>>>>>>Championship. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villanun Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 There's a lot of talk about so-called black and white thinking, but that supposed that we haven't taken the mitigating factors into account when criticising Lambert. I know that Lambert isn't operating the players like marionettes, so he isn't responsible for every single thing they do on the pitch, but he IS responsible for setting up the side in a way that the fans don't enjoy watching, the players don't appear to enjoy playing, and that might have stopped us shipping goals at one end of the pitch but has also stopped us scoring at the other. Player performance is of course a problem, but perhaps it's harder for the players to feel motivated in a system that they don't enjoy using. And before anyone seeks to play down the manager's influence on the on-the-pitch action, let's not forget the sudden shift from hoof to possession. Do people think that the players decided to make that change all on their own? Surely such a fundamental shift in philosophy can only have come from the manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 We'll never agree on the percentages, but I think the point is that it should be more complicated than hanging it all on the manager. All very well, but the basic principle of top level football management is (everywhere apart from AVFC, it seems) I doubt whether Lambert would want it any other way (because, if results start to pick up, of course, it's "more complicated" than putting it all down to his good management). I'm not sure he will be thanking his apologists for presenting him as an emasculated figure, not really in control of what his team produces on the pitch. This post is 100% logical and correct, as long as you don't think the budget is of any relevance. He's running a race with a wooden leg. If he wins, is the conclusion going to be that he's amazing at running with one leg, or that running with one leg is a piece of cake? And if he loses, will the conclusion be that he shouldn't be racing against two-legged runners if he only had one leg, or will it be that budget constraints meant that he couldn't buy a good enough prosthetic? It's going to be a one-legged runner in the race until Lerner goes (and maybe even after), whether it's Lambert or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcowans21 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Premier League>>>>>>Championship. Championship is a very tough league. We should know, we usualy get beat by them in the cups Edited January 22, 2015 by sidcowans21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Look, the budget thing is a factor, but it's mitigated by the fact that the guy has been genuinely great in the transfer market. The one thing that's used to protect him from criticism is the one thing that actually hasn't caused him all that many problems. If Lambert had 5 times as much money to spend I still don't think he'd have us playing properly. Player acquisition is not the problem, player use is Of course the budget has caused him problems. Just as a f'rinstance, you don't think he'd get rid of N'Zogbia for a better alternative if he could afford to?? Edited January 22, 2015 by CrackpotForeigner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Sick of hearing about restrictions and budgets. Mick McCarthy has spent £10000 this season and look what he is doing with Ipswich. Gary Rowett has hardly spent anything and reviving the Blues. Look at the impact Pardew and Pulis have had at Palace and WBA too, also what Pulis did with Palace last season. Having a manger that knows what they are doing makes a massive difference. I'd love us to replace Lambert with somebody that knows how to manage a premier league team, there is no doubt in my mind that Pardew and Pulis would do a lot more with this current Villa squad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Look, the budget thing is a factor, but it's mitigated by the fact that the guy has been genuinely great in the transfer market. The one thing that's used to protect him from criticism is the one thing that actually hasn't caused him all that many problems. If Lambert had 5 times as much money to spend I still don't think he'd have us playing properly. Player acquisition is not the problem, player use is Of course the budget has caused him problems. You don't think he'd get rid of N'Zogbia for a better alternative if he could afford to?? It wouldn't matter - the guy can't set a team up. He could have Draxler and he'd still fluff his lines because of his tactics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Look, the budget thing is a factor, but it's mitigated by the fact that the guy has been genuinely great in the transfer market. The one thing that's used to protect him from criticism is the one thing that actually hasn't caused him all that many problems. If Lambert had 5 times as much money to spend I still don't think he'd have us playing properly. Player acquisition is not the problem, player use is Of course the budget has caused him problems. Just as a f'rinstance, you don't think he'd get rid of N'Zogbia for a better alternative if he could afford to?? And replace him with somebody else he is incapable of getting a performance from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Premier League>>>>>>Championship. Championship is a very tough league. Didn't say it wasn't. I'm saying that teams can compete in the Championship without having to spend much money which isn't really so in the Premier League. People might not like that the budget restrictions are used as a reason why the club is struggling but to pretend that it isn't partially to blame is ludicrous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Premier League>>>>>>Championship. Nah, that's unfair. Sometimes managers do really well, sometimes they don't. It's more than likely that if we got Mick McCarthy instead of Lambert, people would have been unhappy. Now, probably not so much. To dismiss finances entirely is ridiculous. The same way to dismiss managerial ability entirely is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) The stat is that we score 1 goal per 14.3 shots inside the box, we are bottom of that table. Burnley are second from bottom with 1 goal per 7.4 shots inside the box. Chelsea are top with 1 goal per 3.4 shots inside the box. The stat is relevant in the sense that it shows we are way behind everyone else in the league for taking our chances.Can you provide a link that shows us these stats? So (if I read this right) we need 14.3 shots per goal, we have 11 goals, 11x14.3= 157.3, this means we would have had 7.15 shots in the area per game, which means, in theory, we will score in half our games only. Why hasn't the manager done something to change this? Why not shake up the team? Drop players, change formation? Imagine the uproar if he dropped Benteke I'm still amazed at how black and white people think. Where did I say drop Benteke? Keep making things up mate! As for black and white, like 'Lambert only struggles through lack of money', not because he is inept? Edited January 22, 2015 by DK82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Sick of hearing about restrictions and budgets. Mick McCarthy has spent £10000 this season and look what he is doing with Ipswich. Gary Rowett has hardly spent anything and reviving the Blues. Look at the impact Pardew and Pulis have had at Palace and WBA too, also what Pulis did with Palace last season. Having a manger that knows what they are doing makes a massive difference. I'd love us to replace Lambert with somebody that knows how to manage a premier league team, there is no doubt in my mind that Pardew and Pulis would do a lot more with this current Villa squad Pardew, he who was vilified at Newcastle whilst presiding over the worst run of form seen in 2014 (even worse than ours!) would now be a welcome addition at Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 To dismiss finances entirely is ridiculous To dismiss them entirely, yes. BUT a good manager with limited finances will still set a team up right. A poor manager with unlimited finances will still set a team up poorly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Premier League>>>>>>Championship. Nah, that's unfair. Sometimes managers do really well, sometimes they don't. It's more than likely that if we got Mick McCarthy instead of Lambert, people would have been unhappy. Now, probably not so much. To dismiss finances entirely is ridiculous. The same way to dismiss managerial ability entirely is ridiculous. What is unfair? The Premier League is greater than the Championship in terms of finances needed to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 To dismiss finances entirely is ridiculous To dismiss them entirely, yes. BUT a good manager with limited finances will still set a team up right. A poor manager with unlimited finances will still set a team up poorly I'm not disputing that. It was a response to someone saying they were sick of hearing about them which to me meant that he didn't think they were relevant, which they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The stat is that we score 1 goal per 14.3 shots inside the box, we are bottom of that table. Burnley are second from bottom with 1 goal per 7.4 shots inside the box. Chelsea are top with 1 goal per 3.4 shots inside the box. The stat is relevant in the sense that it shows we are way behind everyone else in the league for taking our chances. Can you provide a link that shows us these stats? So (if I read this right) we need 14.3 shots per goal, we have 11 goals, 11x14.3= 157.3, this means we would have had 7.15 shots in the area per game, which means, in theory, we will score in half our games only. Why hasn't the manager done something to change this? Why not shake up the team? Drop players, change formation? Imagine the uproar if he dropped Benteke I'm still amazed at how black and white people think. Where did I say drop Benteke? Keep making g things up mate! Did I say you did? To dismiss finances entirely is ridiculous To dismiss them entirely, yes. BUT a good manager with limited finances will still set a team up right. A poor manager with unlimited finances will still set a team up poorly Roberto Martinez is a good manager (imo) and set Wigan up right. They still had limited finances and they still got relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Roberto Martinez is a good manager (imo) and set Wigan up right. They still had limited finances and they still got relegated. People forget that Martinez was the manager who had them down the bottom most seasons, as well as being the manager that got them out of the relegation scrap. They tended to focus on the latter, ignoring the former. Martinez is an example of a manager who has a fair amount of things right, but struggles with a key element. Lambert's struggle is setting up a midfield, Martinez's is a defence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcowans21 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Premier League>>>>>>Championship. Championship is a very tough league. Didn't say it wasn't. I'm saying that teams can compete in the Championship without having to spend much money which isn't really so in the Premier League. People might not like that the budget restrictions are used as a reason why the club is struggling but to pretend that it isn't partially to blame is ludicrous. Noone is saying it's not partially to blame, i think we all want to see the back of Lerner and see a big cash injection, but Lambert should be doing alot better after 3 years in the job. Pulis set his team up well at Everton the other night, we got absolutely battered there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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