Paul Lambert

[markavfc40]

The blaming Lerner for much of our woes is a valid one. I think given the budget being made available by the owner then clearly regardless of who the manager is a top 8 finish is currently totally unrealistic. I personally believe that with the right owner this club is capable of bringing in enough revenue to again compete for a top 6 place so for me personally the sooner Lener pisses off and is replaced with an owner with the where with all to see us realize our potential the better.

However having said the above I think Lambert has done well with the funds he has been given and has actually assembled a very decent squad. He is though failing badly in terms of getting the best out of them. Defensively we look fine and full credit to the manager for getting that part right but going forward we are abysmal.

I saw a stat today that said that after 19 games in Lamberts first season we had 18 points and had won 4 games, in his second season 20 points and 5 wins. This season it is 21 points and 5 wins. The difference over the 3 seasons is 1 win. The improvement despite a huge turn over in players and changes in coaching staff since Lamberts arrival has in terms of the only stat that really matters, points, been tiny.

Whilst I believe Lambert has done well in the transfer market it is rendered almost meaningless as he fails to get the best out of the squad he has assembled, whilst I acknowledge he has done well in finally getting the defence to look reasonably solid we see no benefit in terms of points gained as going forward we are diabolical. Bottom line is that Lambert is getting many things right but too many things wrong and whilst you can put up mitigating circumstances for individual results, overall this season, so far, he hasn't done good enough.

Edited December 29, 2014 by markavfc40

[DCJonah]

Good post Mark. He's signed some good players and the squad this year is better than his first yet we're averaging the exact same points per game.

If the squad is better then for me its the manager that's holding back improvement and progress.

[Guest]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Huge differences? Well it would be nice to progress. Thought that was the whole point of sport. To be better and get better.

And while defence is much better it makes no difference when attack is much worse because the end result is the same.

But we have become better in certain areas of our game. Its very difficult to progress in every aspect when one of the key prerequisites in Premier League football isn't afforded to you.

But we aren't allowed to mention that are we.....

You can mention it, not surprised we're back to that one now.

Previously it was tough fixtures but we've won 2 games from 15.

It was also we didn't have benteke but he's back and actually seems to be getting a bit of stick now.

It was give him till January and well here we are with points per game no different than his first year.

So I guess we're back to using funds to excuse any progress under him.

 

 

But these are valid reasons and that is why there are still a significant number of people who accept them. 

 

 

I agree, these have not helped. But Lambert is the 'manager' and by definition it is his job to manage with what he has. He has failed at this. We need to seriously think if there is somebody out there who can get more from what is a talented set of players.

 

 

Has he failed though? In certain peoples eyes, yes but remember, the person who sets the goals for the season is Randy Lerner and I don't think Lerner is aiming for anything other than survival. By that definition he hasn't failed.

 

 

I'd say failing to get the team to score goals, not improving year on year with points, struggling to get the best out of players, constantly losing to lower league teams and being unable to think past 'Benteke to score' is failing. And Lerner is failing as a chairman, but that doesn't make Lambert any less to blame for the problems which have been ongoing for near on three years.

 

 

I don't disagree with any of that. I've said this many times, Lambert has his negatives, lots of them, but Lerner is at fault. Its very difficult to do your job to the best of your ability when you work in a poor environment under stifling conditions. I'm sure we can all sympathise with that.

 

 

It is fair to say that the conditions at Villa aren't great. I also think it is fair to praise Lambert for some really good signings (Benteke, Westwood, Vlaar, Cissokho, Senderos, Bacuna) and for getting the best out of those who were poor before he came (Delph, Hutton), but at the same time he should be getting more out of the team with the talent he has got. Lerner's faults are obvious, but that doesn't excuse Lambert (which we agree with each other on, I think!).

 

Where we differ (I think) is that I feel another manager could get more out of these players. We have a good set of players and a decent squad. We should be seeing more from them.

[sexbelowsound]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Huge differences? Well it would be nice to progress. Thought that was the whole point of sport. To be better and get better.

And while defence is much better it makes no difference when attack is much worse because the end result is the same.

But we have become better in certain areas of our game. Its very difficult to progress in every aspect when one of the key prerequisites in Premier League football isn't afforded to you.

But we aren't allowed to mention that are we.....

You can mention it, not surprised we're back to that one now.

Previously it was tough fixtures but we've won 2 games from 15.

It was also we didn't have benteke but he's back and actually seems to be getting a bit of stick now.

It was give him till January and well here we are with points per game no different than his first year.

So I guess we're back to using funds to excuse any progress under him.

 

 

But these are valid reasons and that is why there are still a significant number of people who accept them. 

 

 

I agree, these have not helped. But Lambert is the 'manager' and by definition it is his job to manage with what he has. He has failed at this. We need to seriously think if there is somebody out there who can get more from what is a talented set of players.

 

 

Has he failed though? In certain peoples eyes, yes but remember, the person who sets the goals for the season is Randy Lerner and I don't think Lerner is aiming for anything other than survival. By that definition he hasn't failed.

 

 

I'd say failing to get the team to score goals, not improving year on year with points, struggling to get the best out of players, constantly losing to lower league teams and being unable to think past 'Benteke to score' is failing. And Lerner is failing as a chairman, but that doesn't make Lambert any less to blame for the problems which have been ongoing for near on three years.

 

 

I don't disagree with any of that. I've said this many times, Lambert has his negatives, lots of them, but Lerner is at fault. Its very difficult to do your job to the best of your ability when you work in a poor environment under stifling conditions. I'm sure we can all sympathise with that.

 

 

It is fair to say that the conditions at Villa aren't great. I also think it is fair to praise Lambert for some really good signings (Benteke, Westwood, Vlaar, Cissokho, Senderos, Bacuna) and for getting the best out of those who were poor before he came (Delph, Hutton), but at the same time he should be getting more out of the team with the talent he has got. Lerner's faults are obvious, but that doesn't excuse Lambert (which we agree with each other on, I think!).

 

Where we differ (I think) is that I feel another manager could get more out of these players. We have a good set of players and a decent squad. We should be seeing more from them.

 

 

Yeah that sums it up for me as well. We don't necessarily differ though. Another manager could get more out of them, I'm just not sure that a manager of the quality to do so will be available for us.

[Guest]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Huge differences? Well it would be nice to progress. Thought that was the whole point of sport. To be better and get better.

And while defence is much better it makes no difference when attack is much worse because the end result is the same.

But we have become better in certain areas of our game. Its very difficult to progress in every aspect when one of the key prerequisites in Premier League football isn't afforded to you.

But we aren't allowed to mention that are we.....

You can mention it, not surprised we're back to that one now.

Previously it was tough fixtures but we've won 2 games from 15.

It was also we didn't have benteke but he's back and actually seems to be getting a bit of stick now.

It was give him till January and well here we are with points per game no different than his first year.

So I guess we're back to using funds to excuse any progress under him.

 

 

But these are valid reasons and that is why there are still a significant number of people who accept them. 

 

 

I agree, these have not helped. But Lambert is the 'manager' and by definition it is his job to manage with what he has. He has failed at this. We need to seriously think if there is somebody out there who can get more from what is a talented set of players.

 

 

Has he failed though? In certain peoples eyes, yes but remember, the person who sets the goals for the season is Randy Lerner and I don't think Lerner is aiming for anything other than survival. By that definition he hasn't failed.

 

 

I'd say failing to get the team to score goals, not improving year on year with points, struggling to get the best out of players, constantly losing to lower league teams and being unable to think past 'Benteke to score' is failing. And Lerner is failing as a chairman, but that doesn't make Lambert any less to blame for the problems which have been ongoing for near on three years.

 

 

I don't disagree with any of that. I've said this many times, Lambert has his negatives, lots of them, but Lerner is at fault. Its very difficult to do your job to the best of your ability when you work in a poor environment under stifling conditions. I'm sure we can all sympathise with that.

 

 

It is fair to say that the conditions at Villa aren't great. I also think it is fair to praise Lambert for some really good signings (Benteke, Westwood, Vlaar, Cissokho, Senderos, Bacuna) and for getting the best out of those who were poor before he came (Delph, Hutton), but at the same time he should be getting more out of the team with the talent he has got. Lerner's faults are obvious, but that doesn't excuse Lambert (which we agree with each other on, I think!).

 

Where we differ (I think) is that I feel another manager could get more out of these players. We have a good set of players and a decent squad. We should be seeing more from them.

 

 

Yeah that sums it up for me as well. We don't necessarily differ though. Another manager could get more out of them, I'm just not sure that a manager of the quality to do so will be available for us.

 

 

One thing is for sure, I think we need to look further afield for our next manager. Somebody who can come in with new ideas and a new philosophy for the way we play.

[DCJonah]

I just don't think we're going anywhere under him. I don't see the point in drifting by as a bottom half team trying to survive.

The squad is decent, we have a couple of promising youngsters coming through, tom fox is saying all the right things and there's no major issues with the wage bill. I think we could get someone in with different ideas who could do better things now.

[sexbelowsound]

 

One thing is for sure, I think we need to look further afield for our next manager. Somebody who can come in with new ideas and a new philosophy for the way we play.

 

 

Definitely, Although I don't think Lerner is savvy enough to pick the right man. We'd probably end up with the fabulous Tony Pulis.   

Edited December 29, 2014 by sexbelowsound

[VillanousOne]

At this point I think it's 50/50 on success and failure for Lambert.

 

i've seen manager's do far more with less though

 

and do far less with what Lambert has, i say less... relegation is the only low he hasn't achieved yet. But I admire the fact he is trying new playing and transfer strategies.

[bobzy]

I just don't think we're going anywhere under him. I don't see the point in drifting by as a bottom half team trying to survive.

The squad is decent, we have a couple of promising youngsters coming through, tom fox is saying all the right things and there's no major issues with the wage bill. I think we could get someone in with different ideas who could do better things now.

 

As per posted about fifteen billion times, if no significant amount of money is put into the club, we will continue to be a bottom half team.

 

We could have Jose **** Mourinho as the manager and this wouldn't change.

 

I'm not convinced Lambert is a great manager but until we start to invest in the team, it's better the devil you know IMO.

At this point I think it's 50/50 on success and failure for Lambert.

 

i've seen manager's do far more with less though

 

and do far less with what Lambert has, i say less... relegation is the only low he hasn't achieved yet. But I admire the fact he is trying new playing and transfer strategies.

 

Examples of managers that have done "far more with less" please.

[DCJonah]

 

I just don't think we're going anywhere under him. I don't see the point in drifting by as a bottom half team trying to survive.

The squad is decent, we have a couple of promising youngsters coming through, tom fox is saying all the right things and there's no major issues with the wage bill. I think we could get someone in with different ideas who could do better things now.

 

As per posted about fifteen billion times, if no significant amount of money is put into the club, we will continue to be a bottom half team.

 

We could have Jose **** Mourinho as the manager and this wouldn't change.

 

I'm not convinced Lambert is a great manager but until we start to invest in the team, it's better the devil you know IMO.

At this point I think it's 50/50 on success and failure for Lambert.

 

i've seen manager's do far more with less though

 

and do far less with what Lambert has, i say less... relegation is the only low he hasn't achieved yet. But I admire the fact he is trying new playing and transfer strategies.

 

Examples of managers that have done "far more with less" please.

 

 

You only have to look at our neighbours to see a perfect example of what can happen if shit results aren't accepted.  Far worse conditions than this club but fresh ideas and new approaches and the same players look completely different and are getting good results.

 

It shows how poor the manager has been when 2 and a half years in your main reason to keep him is based on better the devil you know, rather than being able to point out how much better things will be with lambert.

[pacbuddies]

What happened to the poll?

We have to move the goalposts now for the ones that wanted to give him until January. Maybe the next poll will be to give him until the end of the season now as he has royally failed to achieve by the half way stage.

[Shaw_nuff]

Whether you want Lambert in or out, can we please get a better attacking coach?????

[pacbuddies]

 

 

 

We have changed styles. We've gone from hoofball with barely any shots on target to passing it backwards and sideways with barely any shots on target.

Low n behold, neither result in goals/wins.

That is utter rubbish.

Is it? What was the style today then?

 

Do you simply look at the shots on target stats? There has been a big improvement in our style in the last few games, and there is definitely a case to be argued that we deserve to have more points based on performances. 

 

Tell it to the Premier League. Maybe based on your opinion they will shoot us further up the table even though we have failed to score 10 times out of 19.

[pacbuddies]

A quick question for those wanting to give him till January; are we talking about the beginning of January or the end?

Probably January 2016 now as the 'miracle' hasn't  happened yet.

[Guest]

 

I just don't think we're going anywhere under him. I don't see the point in drifting by as a bottom half team trying to survive.

The squad is decent, we have a couple of promising youngsters coming through, tom fox is saying all the right things and there's no major issues with the wage bill. I think we could get someone in with different ideas who could do better things now.

 

As per posted about fifteen billion times, if no significant amount of money is put into the club, we will continue to be a bottom half team.

 

We could have Jose **** Mourinho as the manager and this wouldn't change.

 

I'm not convinced Lambert is a great manager but until we start to invest in the team, it's better the devil you know IMO.

At this point I think it's 50/50 on success and failure for Lambert.

 

i've seen manager's do far more with less though

 

and do far less with what Lambert has, i say less... relegation is the only low he hasn't achieved yet. But I admire the fact he is trying new playing and transfer strategies.

 

Examples of managers that have done "far more with less" please.

 

 

You want to know managers who have done far more with less, yet write off an outstanding manager in Mourinho. Lets face it, whoever we come up with will not be able to make a difference in your eyes, especially if you are willing to write off one of the best managers in the world right now.

 

Mourinho earned his stripes: http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/08/teams-of-the-decade-3-porto-2002-04/

Edited December 29, 2014 by DK82

[sexbelowsound]

 

 

I just don't think we're going anywhere under him. I don't see the point in drifting by as a bottom half team trying to survive.

The squad is decent, we have a couple of promising youngsters coming through, tom fox is saying all the right things and there's no major issues with the wage bill. I think we could get someone in with different ideas who could do better things now.

 

As per posted about fifteen billion times, if no significant amount of money is put into the club, we will continue to be a bottom half team.

 

We could have Jose **** Mourinho as the manager and this wouldn't change.

 

I'm not convinced Lambert is a great manager but until we start to invest in the team, it's better the devil you know IMO.

At this point I think it's 50/50 on success and failure for Lambert.

 

i've seen manager's do far more with less though

 

and do far less with what Lambert has, i say less... relegation is the only low he hasn't achieved yet. But I admire the fact he is trying new playing and transfer strategies.

 

Examples of managers that have done "far more with less" please.

 

 

You only have to look at our neighbours to see a perfect example of what can happen if shit results aren't accepted.  Far worse conditions than this club but fresh ideas and new approaches and the same players look completely different and are getting good results.

 

It shows how poor the manager has been when 2 and a half years in your main reason to keep him is based on better the devil you know, rather than being able to point out how much better things will be with lambert.

 

 

How come its OK for you to keep mentioning Birmingham City but when someone else tried to use Everton as an example you told them it wasn't relevant?

[DCJonah]

I just don't think we're going anywhere under him. I don't see the point in drifting by as a bottom half team trying to survive.

The squad is decent, we have a couple of promising youngsters coming through, tom fox is saying all the right things and there's no major issues with the wage bill. I think we could get someone in with different ideas who could do better things now.

As per posted about fifteen billion times, if no significant amount of money is put into the club, we will continue to be a bottom half team.

We could have Jose **** Mourinho as the manager and this wouldn't change.

I'm not convinced Lambert is a great manager but until we start to invest in the team, it's better the devil you know IMO.

At this point I think it's 50/50 on success and failure for Lambert.

i've seen manager's do far more with less though

and do far less with what Lambert has, i say less... relegation is the only low he hasn't achieved yet. But I admire the fact he is trying new playing and transfer strategies.

Examples of managers that have done "far more with less" please.

You only have to look at our neighbours to see a perfect example of what can happen if shit results aren't accepted. Far worse conditions than this club but fresh ideas and new approaches and the same players look completely different and are getting good results.

It shows how poor the manager has been when 2 and a half years in your main reason to keep him is based on better the devil you know, rather than being able to point out how much better things will be with lambert.

How come its OK for you to keep mentioning Birmingham City but when someone else tried to use Everton as an example you told them it wasn't relevant?

I'm using Birmingham city as a relevant point showing a club with a poor owner having an improvement in performance and results with a new manager.

The point about Everton was somehow trying to show improvement under lambert, which has nothing to do with it.

Edited December 29, 2014 by DCJonah

[samjp26]

I saw a stat today that said that after 19 games in Lamberts first season we had 18 points and had won 4 games, in his second season 20 points and 5 wins. This season it is 21 points and 5 wins. The difference over the 3 seasons is 1 win. The improvement despite a huge turn over in players and changes in coaching staff since Lamberts arrival has in terms of the only stat that really matters, points, been tiny.

Whilst I believe Lambert has done well in the transfer market it is rendered almost meaningless as he fails to get the best out of the squad he has assembled, whilst I acknowledge he has done well in finally getting the defence to look reasonably solid we see no benefit in terms of points gained as going forward we are diabolical. Bottom line is that Lambert is getting many things right but too many things wrong and whilst you can put up mitigating circumstances for individual results, overall this season, so far, he hasn't done good enough.

 

The thing is, it seems meaningless to us fans but the turnover of players has led to a dramatic drop in how much we're spending on wages and so on. We're apparently looking to be in a much better place, financially, and have improved while doing so (also staying in the league at the same time). We also have an abundance of players on our books now that are likely to return a profit if we are to sell them, something we haven't done for a very long time now.

 

I agree that right now I do not feel as if we are seeing the best from our team, however, I do think we are still missing creativity (as in, we need to buy another midfielder still but he'll cost us a few quid) and I also think we've been unlucky with injuries/suspensions so far this season and even last season.

 

Overall, from a business perspective, Lambert has done a great job - as things stand this may not be what fans care about but in the long run you would hope it gives us a return on the pitch should we begin to sell players for profit, spend more money on players and so on. 

[sexbelowsound]

 

 

 

 

I just don't think we're going anywhere under him. I don't see the point in drifting by as a bottom half team trying to survive.

The squad is decent, we have a couple of promising youngsters coming through, tom fox is saying all the right things and there's no major issues with the wage bill. I think we could get someone in with different ideas who could do better things now.

As per posted about fifteen billion times, if no significant amount of money is put into the club, we will continue to be a bottom half team.

We could have Jose **** Mourinho as the manager and this wouldn't change.

I'm not convinced Lambert is a great manager but until we start to invest in the team, it's better the devil you know IMO.

At this point I think it's 50/50 on success and failure for Lambert.

i've seen manager's do far more with less though

and do far less with what Lambert has, i say less... relegation is the only low he hasn't achieved yet. But I admire the fact he is trying new playing and transfer strategies.

Examples of managers that have done "far more with less" please.

You only have to look at our neighbours to see a perfect example of what can happen if shit results aren't accepted. Far worse conditions than this club but fresh ideas and new approaches and the same players look completely different and are getting good results.

It shows how poor the manager has been when 2 and a half years in your main reason to keep him is based on better the devil you know, rather than being able to point out how much better things will be with lambert.

How come its OK for you to keep mentioning Birmingham City but when someone else tried to use Everton as an example you told them it wasn't relevant?

I'm using Birmingham city as a relevant point showing a club with a poor owner having an improvement in performance and results with a new manager.

The point about Everton was somehow trying to show improvement under lambert, which has nothing to do with it.

 

 

What you mean is, you decided it wasn't a relevant point because you disagreed with it when in reality it was just as relevant as yours. If you are allowed to cite another club as an example of "what could have been" then other people should be allowed to if it backs up their opinion. 

[DCJonah]

I just don't think we're going anywhere under him. I don't see the point in drifting by as a bottom half team trying to survive.

The squad is decent, we have a couple of promising youngsters coming through, tom fox is saying all the right things and there's no major issues with the wage bill. I think we could get someone in with different ideas who could do better things now.

As per posted about fifteen billion times, if no significant amount of money is put into the club, we will continue to be a bottom half team.

We could have Jose **** Mourinho as the manager and this wouldn't change.

I'm not convinced Lambert is a great manager but until we start to invest in the team, it's better the devil you know IMO.

At this point I think it's 50/50 on success and failure for Lambert.

i've seen manager's do far more with less though

and do far less with what Lambert has, i say less... relegation is the only low he hasn't achieved yet. But I admire the fact he is trying new playing and transfer strategies.

Examples of managers that have done "far more with less" please.

You only have to look at our neighbours to see a perfect example of what can happen if shit results aren't accepted. Far worse conditions than this club but fresh ideas and new approaches and the same players look completely different and are getting good results.

It shows how poor the manager has been when 2 and a half years in your main reason to keep him is based on better the devil you know, rather than being able to point out how much better things will be with lambert.

How come its OK for you to keep mentioning Birmingham City but when someone else tried to use Everton as an example you told them it wasn't relevant?

I'm using Birmingham city as a relevant point showing a club with a poor owner having an improvement in performance and results with a new manager.

The point about Everton was somehow trying to show improvement under lambert, which has nothing to do with it.

What you mean is, you decided it wasn't a relevant point because you disagreed with it when in reality it was just as relevant as yours. If you are allowed to cite another club as an example of "what could have been" then other people should be allowed to if it backs up their opinion.

Wow.

What has Everton underperforming got to do with proving Lambert is improving? How is that relevant to that discussion?

I'm sure you could have worked this out on your own.