DCJonah Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Its not going to happen over night though. Which is why it should have been something we addressed when he replaced McLeish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 (edited) Think there has been steady improvement each of the 3 seasons that Lamberts been here. The points tally improving slightly but also the league position improving each season. We've come a long way from that awful 1st season I agree with much of your post but this is simply wrong. In 12/13 we finished on 41 points in 15th place. In 13/14 we finished on 38 points in 15th place. In 12/13, especially towards the back end, the football was decent, in 13/14 the football in the main was dire and the football over the last 3rd of that season was some of the poorest I have witnessed in my 30+ years following us. Therefore for me there was no progress in Lamberts second season and instead of kicking on from a promising finish to 12/13 both statistically and in terms of the football served up we went backwards. In addition that summer before the start of the 13/14 season was Lamberts worst for signings. Tonev, Luna, Helenius were either not good enough at this level or not ready and Bacuna showed that he was no more than a squad filler at this level. For me 13/14 was a wasted year. However I think Lambert has turned that around and due to the signings over the summer and the reintroduction of Hutton we now have for me the strongest squad we have had in the last 3-4 years. That is only part of the job though and Lambert still needs to consistently get the best out of them. Defensively he seems to be achieving that but in terms of creating chances and scoring goals we are coming up way short. We are a work in progress I guess but at least, unlike last season, there are some small signs we are finally heading in the right direction. Edited December 27, 2014 by markavfc40 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 However I think Lambert has turned that around and due to the signings over the summer and the reintroduction of Hutton we now have for me the strongest squad we have had in the last 3-4 years. Can't disagree with this. My issue is that even with a stronger squad it's looking like this season will be not much different from his first. We're not really improving that much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 27, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted December 27, 2014 Its not going to happen over night though. Which is why it should have been something we addressed when he replaced McLeish. It was, like you pointed out yourself. I think its regressed as a result of attempting to correct the defence. We played more attacking with Lambert before but our defence was atrocious. He's moved to address that at the expense of the style of football. Now he's adding the "better" football back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 But was it passing and attacking football that made our defence weak? I'd say it was probably more to do with the personal rather than the style of play we had. Maybe he over compensated until he had players that proved they could defend better. I do find it strange its taken this long to start playing it out from the back. It could be argued that during his first year we had more comfortable defenders on the ball than we currently do now, which surely would have made it easier to start this kind of build up play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 But was it passing and attacking football that made our defence weak? I'd say it was probably more to do with the personal rather than the style of play we had. Maybe he over compensated until he had players that proved they could defend better. I do find it strange its taken this long to start playing it out from the back. It could be argued that during his first year we had more comfortable defenders on the ball than we currently do now, which surely would have made it easier to start this kind of build up play. Vlaar and Okore in particular are 2 of the most comfortable central defenders on the ball that I've seen at Villa. Clark isn't bad either (hence calls for him to be turned into a defensive midfielder at some point in time). I just don't get why you'd knock a manager for doing what, in your view, is the "right thing". You say it's nothing to do with sticks... what is it?! Surely you should be applauding the fact he's doing what you want now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 I'm not knocking him and he gets full credit for implementing this new style. But part of my frustration with Lambert is that we haven't been progressing and improving much under him, hence I wonder what we'd currently be if this is something we'd worked on from day one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Why the sudden change now I wonder? We signed the squad early this summer so could this not have been implemented in pre season training as most of them were there? Did Lambert just want to get 20 points and halfway to safety before feeling comfortable doing this chance in style? Why not last season? Were the "young and hungry" players technically not up to it? I'm pretty sure right at the start of Lambert's reign for the first few games Guzan was rolling the ball out to the fullbacks and we were keeping the ball for keeping it's sake in midfield. But we couldn't score. Not sure a huge amount has change as we simply don't have enough forward thinking players in our midfield area to create enough chances with this style. One of the reasons I want to see Grealish start tomorrow. Let's see but winning these two home games with a new patient style would be a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Why the sudden change now I wonder? We signed the squad early this summer so could this not have been implemented in pre season training as most of them were there? Did Lambert just want to get 20 points and halfway to safety before feeling comfortable doing this chance in style? Why not last season? Were the "young and hungry" players technically not up to it? .perhaps because he has only had his fist choice available to him for a short while as to last season he didn't have this squad of players last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) Think there has been steady improvement each of the 3 seasons that Lamberts been here. The points tally improving slightly but also the league position improving each season. We've come a long way from that awful 1st season I agree with much of your post but this is simply wrong. In 12/13 we finished on 41 points in 15th place. In 13/14 we finished on 38 points in 15th place. In 12/13, especially towards the back end, the football was decent, in 13/14 the football in the main was dire and the football over the last 3rd of that season was some of the poorest I have witnessed in my 30+ years following us. Therefore for me there was no progress in Lamberts second season and instead of kicking on from a promising finish to 12/13 both statistically and in terms of the football served up we went backwards. In addition that summer before the start of the 13/14 season was Lamberts worst for signings. Tonev, Luna, Helenius were either not good enough at this level or not ready and Bacuna showed that he was no more than a squad filler at this level. For me 13/14 was a wasted year. However I think Lambert has turned that around and due to the signings over the summer and the reintroduction of Hutton we now have for me the strongest squad we have had in the last 3-4 years. That is only part of the job though and Lambert still needs to consistently get the best out of them. Defensively he seems to be achieving that but in terms of creating chances and scoring goals we are coming up way short. We are a work in progress I guess but at least, unlike last season, there are some small signs we are finally heading in the right direction. Yes I would go along with most of that. Summer 2013 was Lamberts/the board biggest mistake. We just about stayed up the season before but with a lot of his young and hungry signings not really working (Bowery, Bennett). But they carried out the same transfer policy and bought largely dross, Okore and perhaps Kozak permitting. At least he learnt and bought solid premier league players this summer in the limited budget he has under Lerner regime post 2010. If Lambert is given a £4 million plus per player budget he usually does okay- it has been the bargain bins (Luna, Tonev, Sylla, Dawkins etc) that have not worked. Not really a suprise unless you are very good at your job, backed up by a brilliant scouting network in the Billy Beane mould. Which we don't have. Since Keane has left for some reason (perhaps the teams we have played minus United) we are playing better and now have a possession style football which has seemed to have come from nowhere. At least Lambert is trying to do something different and hopefully we can pick up some points in the next 2 games to cement our lofty mid table position. Edited December 28, 2014 by The Fun Factory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 .....I still have this nagging notion that he stumbles on things. I wish I had more faith....perhaps a few back to back wins might restore it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulfromsutton Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 But was it passing and attacking football that made our defence weak? I'd say it was probably more to do with the personal rather than the style of play we had. Maybe he over compensated until he had players that proved they could defend better. I do find it strange its taken this long to start playing it out from the back. It could be argued that during his first year we had more comfortable defenders on the ball than we currently do now, which surely would have made it easier to start this kind of build up play. Totally you can have the best manager in history if he doesn't have the players to win games he won't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Vlaar, Okore and Clark, as Bobsy said, are all comfortable on the ball, but Guzan is the problem. He is putting the defence under pressure numerous times with his short passes, often too strong or bouncing. It will cost us goals unless he improves this. And there are times when he must consider that hoofing is the better option, to stop the opposition closing us down when they know what we are going to do and see how poor his distribution is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted December 28, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted December 28, 2014 Vlaar, Okore and Clark, as Bobsy said, are all comfortable on the ball, but Guzan is the problem. He is putting the defence under pressure numerous times with his short passes, often too strong or bouncing. It will cost us goals unless he improves this. And there are times when he must consider that hoofing is the better option, to stop the opposition closing us down when they know what we are going to do and see how poor his distribution is. It's not the PL, but Sydney FC had the same problem with their keeper. To rectify the problem, the manager sent him into the midfield for every preseason game to get him comfortable on the ball. Perhaps an outfield run in the reserves for Brad? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw_nuff Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 .....I still have this nagging notion that he stumbles on things. I wish I had more faith....perhaps a few back to back wins might restore it. I don't think you're far from the truth. I've been sitting back quietly watching what's going on and I'm still not clear about what's happened to Lambert's philosophy. He's revelling in telling us that he's changed style, but why? Why's it taken so long? I don't buy the personnel argument. Personally I believe he's reacted to shocking stats and deserved criticism. It could equally be the players asking to play a more progressive style. Anyway, looking forward to seeing us boss a game at home. This game will show our 'new' intent. Don't let us down Paul. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Half way point when lots of his defenders said he should be judged. We average the exact same points per game as his first season. Lowest scorers in the league. 2 wins in the last 15 games. Defence looks solid. We've finally started to pass the ball. No real progress for me. I think this squad is capable of better, still think we'd be better with Lambert gone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Very much an opportunity missed today, disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 We have to stop relying on Benteke for goals and get midfielders into the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Well, that's the 10th time in 19 games we have failed to score. Improvement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarpie Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Lambert starting Weimann game after game alone should be sackable offense. Why Lambert can't see how **** atrocious player Weimann is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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