Paul Lambert

[Brumstopdogs]

Yes it is misleading because you still haven't shown me where these supposed assets are for us to sell. Our squad was paper thin and full of bang average players. Where are the sales coming from?

 

The Bent example? Come on now. Bent hasn't been a valuable asset I would suggest since we bought him and by that i mean we were always going to lose money on him after the fee we spent. 

 

Difference being Newcastle were able to sell players on because they didn't have an already weak and depleted squad and weren't being told to cut costs.

 

Bent is a prime example - he didn't need to sell him for £18m which he probably wouldn't have been able to anyway. However he COULD have got, say, £10m if he continued playing him and sold him after his first year.

 

There's a big difference between losing some of your money and losing all of your money.

 

The example with Newcastle highlights the ability of a manger to sell a player at a profit. Can you give me the examples when Lambert has done that for us?

 

Being a manager includes selling players (and at the right time) and Lambert's net in-goings and out-goings since he has been here are more than half of the league.

 

Lambert out.

[Brumstopdogs]

FWIW  Bent leaves on a free in the summer, as does Delph (Vlaar will be gone in Jan)

So under Lambert's we might have situation where £18m + £6m + £3.2m of talent leaves for minimal fees or no fees.

 

Doesn't sound like a manager who knows what he is doing!

[DCJonah]

This is the DCJonah thread now

What is good though is that Lerner won't listen to any of you lot. He will give the manager the full season (as he should unless we are mired 4 points adrift in relegation zone) and then make his decision at the end if we need a new manager, or if we can get new owners by then they can get a new manager.

The rash owners that lack the confidence and intelligence to ignore the irrational mob that is disgruntled fans, those are the ones that get their clubs relegated.

Big Sam was hated by the West Ham mob, they are a lot quieter now aren't they.

Apoligies, I'm not trying to take over, its just probably the area at villa I feel strongest about, actually not true, Lerner is a major issue for me but there's just nothing to debate. We all agree he needs to go.

When you write like that I don't think we're a million miles apart. If I knew a takeover was happening in the summer, I'd accept what ever Lambert served up to see us safe. But I don't see it happening, I don't see any change in the way Lerner will run the club so I see 2 options.

1) accept what's happening and that it will be a future of ugly football and scraping survival.

2) or gamble on someone new doing something different

For me its an easy option and I'd imagine the low attendance Monday suggests other people would feel the same.

I'm just bored by it all, if all we're going to do is scrape by playing the way we do then I'll fast fall out of love with the club.

[WallheathLions]

He does,nt know what he is doing.

Playing Bent when he probably knew he was going and in doing so taking a player

off who needs pitch time and who apart from a few blips was starting to take a good shape

proves this idiot is a complete idiot.

[Stevo985]

Sanchez was dropping off a cliff in that Southampton game.

 

Regardless of who replaced him, the decision to bring him off was a good one, imo.

[PieFacE]

 

For me its an easy option and I'd imagine the low attendance Monday suggests other people would feel the same.

I'm just bored by it all, if all we're going to do is scrape by playing the way we do then I'll fast fall out of love with the club.

 

Yup, as people keep saying in defence of Lambert, we don't have the money or the players to compete much better than we are. So the least we could do is be mildly entertaining. At the minute the standard of football is at an all time low, and I believe the players within our squad can play a better brand of football. They're professional footballers ffs, they should be able to pass the ball around for a bit and make half intelligent moves. 

 

We should bring in another manager who wants to play expressive football, I'd rather actually go down playing better football than stay up playing the style Lambert has us playing. I know that's going to be a controversial opinion but I'm so sick of watching us play counter attacking football at home, where we barely put 5 passes together in the opposition's half, it's just awful. It's one thing to play organised effective counter attacking football, but I don't see that in Lambert's Villa. They don't really seem to know what they're doing other than defending.. Then when we do play "lesser" teams, they sit back, let us have the ball and we don't have a clue what to do with it because the manager is tactically inept. 

 

The blokes been given enough time now to see some progression, we've gone backwards in his time here.

Sanchez was dropping off a cliff in that Southampton game.

 

Regardless of who replaced him, the decision to bring him off was a good one, imo.

I agree, it seems he can only play for an hour or so and then starts to lose his head.

 

It was right to take him off, but to bring Bent on was so so wrong.

Edited November 26, 2014 by PieFacE

[Richard]

So Lambert out now for potentially losing money on a players potential value if that player had played well for the last 3 years and wanted to put the effort in and signed a new contract with us to protect his potential  value?

 

Any stick suppose,  but please get another stick the one you are using is bent.

[CrackpotForeigner]

 

Yes it is misleading because you still haven't shown me where these supposed assets are for us to sell. Our squad was paper thin and full of bang average players. Where are the sales coming from?

 

The Bent example? Come on now. Bent hasn't been a valuable asset I would suggest since we bought him and by that i mean we were always going to lose money on him after the fee we spent. 

 

Difference being Newcastle were able to sell players on because they didn't have an already weak and depleted squad and weren't being told to cut costs.

 

Bent is a prime example - he didn't need to sell him for £18m which he probably wouldn't have been able to anyway. However he COULD have got, say, £10m if he continued playing him and sold him after his first year.

 

There's a big difference between losing some of your money and losing all of your money.

 

The example with Newcastle highlights the ability of a manger to sell a player at a profit. Can you give me the examples when Lambert has done that for us?

 

Being a manager includes selling players (and at the right time) and Lambert's net in-goings and out-goings since he has been here are more than half of the league.

 

Lambert out.

 

 

Come on mate, the fact that DB was for sale was about the worst-kept secret in the world.

 

He didn't get sold, because nobody came up with an offer that the club (i.e. the owner) was prepared to accept.

 

It gets a bit boring when people describe some random Bad Thing, followed by Lambert Out, regardless of whether the manager has anything whatsoever to do with it.

[Didiersix]

They were trying to flog Bent under McLeish. When the desperate firesale at Villa Park was just beginning..

[Richard]

I wont say I know this for a fact.

 

Lets say that the very best offer we received for Daren Bent in the last three years was 2.75M and that was before he moved to Fulham and played shit for them.  What then? No one wanted him,  not one manager looked at him and thought "hey up lad it's not your fault you're being mishandled by Lambert,  you're easily worth 10M  so what I'll do is offer 5M and get you back to your best".  Not one manager in this country or abroad was prepared to do that.  Suppose that's Paul's fault too.

[dudevillaisnice]

This is a great piece..

 

 

 

From the number that turned up the other night it might seem rich saying that Aston Villa fans are a loyal bunch, particularly during hard times, but during the David O’Leary days we used to turn up and do the conga in the aisle because the football was that bad. There is a core group of supporters who will watch the team no matter what, but a Monday night match being played in near-freezing temperatures, that is live on TV and is going to offer next to nothing in terms of entertainment, is a hard sell. The club would have struggled to fill the ground even if they had given away the tickets for free.

 

Villa sell a lot of seats for decent prices but that isn’t necessarily the issue. What were the supporters turning up to see against Southampton? One shot on target. Two corners. A few blocked shots. We have scored six goals in 12 league games this season. To say our home form over the last few seasons has been dire is somewhat of an understatement. The 25,311 fans who made it to Villa Park saw a team defend resolutely for 90 minutes, which has been an improvement on previous seasons but there is no creativity in the team and there hasn’t been any for a while. Everything is very one-dimensional. Christian Benteke has been injured and then suspended this season, so it’s difficult to judge but the team’s strategy and even survival has been built around the Belgian in recent years. Everything is channelled through him, with Gabriel Agbonlahor and Andreas Weimann feeding off the scraps.

 

The core fanbase are loyal but as with many clubs there are a group of floating fans who will come and go. And, being brutally honest, they could buy a lot for £42. Those fans could take their partners out for dinner with that money, take the family to the cinema or buy themselves FIFA 15. Sure, they’ll be looking at their phones every few minutes to see the score, but it will be a pretty empty stream. It’s funny how you reset your expectations after seven straight defeats. You start off wanting goals, but then you look for shots. And if there are no shots, maybe attacking intent. After that you’d settle for some possession. But there is nothing with the Villa at the minute. A casual Match of the Day viewer might see Villa playing on the counter-attack and think that we break with great speed and ruthlessness, but for the other 86 minutes it’s aimless.

 

That is the biggest frustration. In the summer we brought in Tom Cleverley, who looked like he could pick a pass in the early years. He could play in a more advanced midfield role, in front of Fabian Delph and Ashley Westwood, but he has become just another runner.

Paul Lambert said he was pleased with the performance last night. But honestly, what are the expectations now? Post-match Lambert found it hard to find the words to say what they had worked on, in the end he settled on Agbonlahor’s speed, but how does a team even work on an individual’s pace. Villa fans have heard the lines before. The manager has been under financial constraints and the supporters understand that, but he is losing his poker face. He must know it’s not good enough, and Roy Keane must know it isn’t good enough, because every Villa fans knows it.

 

What is the plan? What is the system? There’s lots of scampering around and closing down quickly, but it all descends into back-to-the-walls stuff very quickly. A fragility runs right through this team and the club. For a while, even if we start well and pick up a 1-0 lead, you know we’ll draw or lose 2-1. If we go 2-0 up, you know we’ll draw 2-2 or lose 3-2. It has been a difficult couple of seasons for the squad and every injury or defeat sees the team lose confidence further. There are no rocks in the team, no leadership, not even in “Concrete Ron”.

 

Southampton are a model of what Aston Villa could be. They lost a lot of players in the summer but have managed to maintain consistency and, more importantly, their identity. New players came in, but it’s almost plug and play. There should be a core that runs through a club, even if managers and players come and go.

 

Villa had Martin O’Neill, then Gérard Houllier, then Alex McLeish and now Paul Lambert. But if every time a new manager is appointed, a new five-year project begins and is never completed, then that’s a lot of waste. Villa have seen a lot of managers since 1999 without any consistent plan. There was initially hope when Randy Lerner bought the club but we have probably seen the biggest waste since then.

 

We could have won last night, we could win a couple of matches and move up the Premier League table but it wouldn’t solve the problem? How does Lambert want the team to play? Does he even know anymore? I always love to ask other Villa fans what system they think we play because it always varies wildly. What we have seen under Lambert is an over-reliance on Agbonlahor’s pace or an individual moment of brilliance from Benteke.

 

The system should come from the top. Any organisation needs leadership but there is none at Villa, just an uncomfortable silence. When Lerner took over the club, he did all the right things. He did the community elements, he spruced up the ground, he put Acorns Children’s Hospice on the shirts, he converted the kitchens in Villa Park so they could be used to teach kids how to cook, and his assistant General C Krulak spoke to the fans on message boards. All of these are good things but what is the plan now? Is there budget while we’re up for sale? What if a buyer doesn’t come in? The uncertainty must be hard for all involved with the club.

 

We are going to be in a mess next season. Ron Vlaar will go, Fabian Delph will go and I wouldn’t be surprised if Benteke finally forces through a move. Then where are we? Who will fill that spine? Some fans wonder if going down, rebuilding and coming back up could be a good thing, but looking around at the other clubs in the Midlands - Coventry, Birmingham City, Wolves and so on - suggests that might not be the case.

 

For as long as the club is run the way it is, like a business, operated and motivated by calculated business decisions then it will be viewed or attended like one. There has to be more for football fans, if not there will be wild swings in attendance. At least we scored last night. And two draws after seven defeats has at least stopped the rot. Going to Burnley on Saturday is not going to be easy, but every game is a struggle this season.

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/nov/26/fans-view-aston-villa-have-no-system-no-direction-no-leadership?CMP=twt_gu

[Brumstopdogs]

I've heard it all now. Football managers apparently don't have anything to do with what a player is worth.

 

What exactly is Lambert doing!

[CrackpotForeigner]

This is a great piece..

 

 

 

From the number that turned up the other night it might seem rich saying that Aston Villa fans are a loyal bunch, particularly during hard times, but during the David O’Leary days we used to turn up and do the conga in the aisle because the football was that bad. There is a core group of supporters who will watch the team no matter what, but a Monday night match being played in near-freezing temperatures, that is live on TV and is going to offer next to nothing in terms of entertainment, is a hard sell. The club would have struggled to fill the ground even if they had given away the tickets for free.

 

Villa sell a lot of seats for decent prices but that isn’t necessarily the issue. What were the supporters turning up to see against Southampton? One shot on target. Two corners. A few blocked shots. We have scored six goals in 12 league games this season. To say our home form over the last few seasons has been dire is somewhat of an understatement. The 25,311 fans who made it to Villa Park saw a team defend resolutely for 90 minutes, which has been an improvement on previous seasons but there is no creativity in the team and there hasn’t been any for a while. Everything is very one-dimensional. Christian Benteke has been injured and then suspended this season, so it’s difficult to judge but the team’s strategy and even survival has been built around the Belgian in recent years. Everything is channelled through him, with Gabriel Agbonlahor and Andreas Weimann feeding off the scraps.

 

The core fanbase are loyal but as with many clubs there are a group of floating fans who will come and go. And, being brutally honest, they could buy a lot for £42. Those fans could take their partners out for dinner with that money, take the family to the cinema or buy themselves FIFA 15. Sure, they’ll be looking at their phones every few minutes to see the score, but it will be a pretty empty stream. It’s funny how you reset your expectations after seven straight defeats. You start off wanting goals, but then you look for shots. And if there are no shots, maybe attacking intent. After that you’d settle for some possession. But there is nothing with the Villa at the minute. A casual Match of the Day viewer might see Villa playing on the counter-attack and think that we break with great speed and ruthlessness, but for the other 86 minutes it’s aimless.

 

That is the biggest frustration. In the summer we brought in Tom Cleverley, who looked like he could pick a pass in the early years. He could play in a more advanced midfield role, in front of Fabian Delph and Ashley Westwood, but he has become just another runner.

Paul Lambert said he was pleased with the performance last night. But honestly, what are the expectations now? Post-match Lambert found it hard to find the words to say what they had worked on, in the end he settled on Agbonlahor’s speed, but how does a team even work on an individual’s pace. Villa fans have heard the lines before. The manager has been under financial constraints and the supporters understand that, but he is losing his poker face. He must know it’s not good enough, and Roy Keane must know it isn’t good enough, because every Villa fans knows it.

 

What is the plan? What is the system? There’s lots of scampering around and closing down quickly, but it all descends into back-to-the-walls stuff very quickly. A fragility runs right through this team and the club. For a while, even if we start well and pick up a 1-0 lead, you know we’ll draw or lose 2-1. If we go 2-0 up, you know we’ll draw 2-2 or lose 3-2. It has been a difficult couple of seasons for the squad and every injury or defeat sees the team lose confidence further. There are no rocks in the team, no leadership, not even in “Concrete Ron”.

 

Southampton are a model of what Aston Villa could be. They lost a lot of players in the summer but have managed to maintain consistency and, more importantly, their identity. New players came in, but it’s almost plug and play. There should be a core that runs through a club, even if managers and players come and go.

 

Villa had Martin O’Neill, then Gérard Houllier, then Alex McLeish and now Paul Lambert. But if every time a new manager is appointed, a new five-year project begins and is never completed, then that’s a lot of waste. Villa have seen a lot of managers since 1999 without any consistent plan. There was initially hope when Randy Lerner bought the club but we have probably seen the biggest waste since then.

 

We could have won last night, we could win a couple of matches and move up the Premier League table but it wouldn’t solve the problem? How does Lambert want the team to play? Does he even know anymore? I always love to ask other Villa fans what system they think we play because it always varies wildly. What we have seen under Lambert is an over-reliance on Agbonlahor’s pace or an individual moment of brilliance from Benteke.

 

The system should come from the top. Any organisation needs leadership but there is none at Villa, just an uncomfortable silence. When Lerner took over the club, he did all the right things. He did the community elements, he spruced up the ground, he put Acorns Children’s Hospice on the shirts, he converted the kitchens in Villa Park so they could be used to teach kids how to cook, and his assistant General C Krulak spoke to the fans on message boards. All of these are good things but what is the plan now? Is there budget while we’re up for sale? What if a buyer doesn’t come in? The uncertainty must be hard for all involved with the club.

 

We are going to be in a mess next season. Ron Vlaar will go, Fabian Delph will go and I wouldn’t be surprised if Benteke finally forces through a move. Then where are we? Who will fill that spine? Some fans wonder if going down, rebuilding and coming back up could be a good thing, but looking around at the other clubs in the Midlands - Coventry, Birmingham City, Wolves and so on - suggests that might not be the case.

 

For as long as the club is run the way it is, like a business, operated and motivated by calculated business decisions then it will be viewed or attended like one. There has to be more for football fans, if not there will be wild swings in attendance. At least we scored last night. And two draws after seven defeats has at least stopped the rot. Going to Burnley on Saturday is not going to be easy, but every game is a struggle this season.

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/nov/26/fans-view-aston-villa-have-no-system-no-direction-no-leadership?CMP=twt_gu

 

Excellent article with one flaw: Southampton spent roughly a godzillion pounds on those players, so it's not the biggest surprise in the world that they have a better-performing team.

[Brumstopdogs]

Southampton's net spend since Lambert has been here is less than ours.

 

If we had a Lallana in our side and a Shaw in our side would they have reached the form that they did for Southampton? Would we have got the fees that Southampton got for them?

 

I'd suggest not - because the whole way we are set up is not to go and score goals, to entertain, to see players attacking and get the best out of players. It's anti football - it's Paul Lambert football!

[Zatman]

Shane Long cost double what we spent all summer

[Zatman]

Southampton's net spend since Lambert has been here is less than ours.

 

If we had a Lallana in our side and a Shaw in our side would they have reached the form that they did for Southampton? Would we have got the fees that Southampton got for them?

 

I'd suggest not - because the whole way we are set up is not to go and score goals, to entertain, to see players attacking and get the best out of players. It's anti football - it's Paul Lambert football!

 

how much did we get for Downing, Young and Milner?

[Bunnski]

Shane Long cost double what we spent all summer

No no no... it's all about net spend today as that's the best argument the pessimistic short-sighted brigade can conjure up to have a go at Lambert.  Tune into the Paul Lambert thread tomorrow for more boring dribble that makes no sense and has only one agenda....

[CrackpotForeigner]

Southampton's net spend since Lambert has been here is less than ours.

 

You should be asking:

 

What were the players who were on the pitch against us worth, and what are ours worth?

[Brumstopdogs]

 

Southampton's net spend since Lambert has been here is less than ours.

 

If we had a Lallana in our side and a Shaw in our side would they have reached the form that they did for Southampton? Would we have got the fees that Southampton got for them?

 

I'd suggest not - because the whole way we are set up is not to go and score goals, to entertain, to see players attacking and get the best out of players. It's anti football - it's Paul Lambert football!

 

how much did we get for Downing, Young and Milner?

 

Exactly - other managers have managed to make profits on players.

Shane Long cost double what we spent all summer

I didn't realise we didn't have any players before this summer!

[Brumstopdogs]

You should be asking:

 

What were the players who were on the pitch against us worth, and what are ours worth?

 

There players will be worth more if they have managed to play well, sell players at a high price and then replace them.

 

Lambert messed up on all three of those parts!