Paul Lambert

[briny_ear]

Interesting points there, The Fun Factory. I remember HairyHands saying just before his untimely disappearance form cyberspace that Lambert thinks 

of Villa as a "sleeping giant" that he wants to wake up. The alarm bells started ringing for me at that point. We don't need a lofty visionary as manager, we need a hard-headed pragmatist who can plot how we get the most out of each player in the squad and each match we play. That's what I thought we were getting in Lambert and that's why he has been such a disappointment so far for me.

[lexicon]

I don't think that the two are mutually exclusive, Briny.

[heid3ster]

Interesting points there, The Fun Factory. I remember HairyHands saying just before his untimely disappearance form cyberspace that Lambert thinks 

of Villa as a "sleeping giant" that he wants to wake up. The alarm bells started ringing for me at that point. We don't need a lofty visionary as manager, we need a hard-headed pragmatist who can plot how we get the most out of each player in the squad and each match we play. That's what I thought we were getting in Lambert and that's why he has been such a disappointment so far for me.

 

I respect your view and see where you're coming from, but I have to say I disagree with it 100%. I think a visionary is exactly what we need. I'm not sure Lambert is that visionary, mind you. But I'd like to see the sleeping lion wake up.

[briny_ear]

I don't think that the two are mutually exclusive, Briny.

Maybe not. It's doubtful whether we've had much of either from Lambert so far, but certainly the pragmatic approach hasn't been greatly in evidence.

 

If anything, he seems to have concentrated on trying to buy an imagined great future on the cheap, in which bargain players snapped up from lower leagues in both England and mainland Europe are expected to come good as part of his squad and drive us forward to become competitive in the Premier League. The tatters of this approach over the past two seasons lie behind us and the transfer business so far this season seems to have been mainly about getting in some premier league experience to help add a bit of nous and stability to our play.

 

I fully endorse this approach and I think we may have a better season because of it. I agree with the points made by the The Fun Factory, that Lerner's decision to sell the club has released Lambert from the need to think long term and so he has been able to concentrate on bringing a bit of useful experience into the squad.

[TrentVilla]

I completely disagree, and struggle to see how Lamberrt has been anything other than pragmatic in his approach to the job. He has accepted his lot, no moaned and tried to do the best he can with a view to both the short term and long term often to his own detriment rather than just focus on the short term like most managers which is in part how we got in this mess.

I don't think Lambert spent his first two seasons signing players for some great imagined future. I think he spent two years scratching around for bargains while trying to off load rubbish and reduce our wage bill swollen by crap high paid players and a clueless owner.

I think it is optimistic in the extreme to think you can inherit what Lambert did and spend £43m over two seasons and have any hope of 'driving forward' and being 'competitive' in the PL.

Lambert has tried to make the most out of what he had ((with some exceptions) and what funds he had to try and build a squad on sustainable wages full of young and cheap players that may not work out but won't cripple us if they don't. Those that did could be added to in later years with more expensive players on better wages once the wage bill was sorted and we no longer needed so many players to be added.

To say the tatters of his approach lie behind us is as melodramatic as it is incorrect in my book. We have stayed in the PL because of him and we've done so while reducing the wage bill again because of him, if and when we get sold those two things will be large factors in the deal.

You say you fully endorse his approach this summer but the plan (ass HH) said a year ago was always to add more experience and this summer. Only he is having to do it now on Bosman's because Lerner has had a change of heart.

You are right in what you say about Lerner having stopped Lambert having to think about the long term but I don't see that as a positive I see it as being another black mark against our idiotic owner. Lambert should have been backed this summer to move on with the job having in Lerner's own words 'done everything asked of him'.

I welcome the signings Lambert's made in the circumstances this summer but I don't see them being positive in the wider context of the future of the club or indicative that he has got it wrong these last two years.

We needed a bigger squad, on wages we could afford and built with players that were on lower wages than those they replaced. Even those players that ultimately will move on have in the most part played a reasonable number of games in the last two seasons and so played their parts. I really don't see that buying just a couple of experienced players last summer was an option for him or would have seen us do much better if at all.

[dn1982]

I completely disagree, and struggle to see how Lamberrt has been anything other than pragmatic in his approach to the job. He has accepted his lot, no moaned and tried to do the best he can with a view to both the short term and long term often to his own detriment rather than just focus on the short term like most managers which is in part how we got in this mess.

I don't think Lambert spent his first two seasons signing players for some great imagined future. I think he spent two years scratching around for bargains while trying to off load rubbish and reduce our wage bill swollen by crap high paid players and a clueless owner.

I think it is optimistic in the extreme to think you can inherit what Lambert did and spend £43m over two seasons and have any hope of 'driving forward' and being 'competitive' in the PL.

Lambert has tried to make the most out of what he had ((with some exceptions) and what funds he had to try and build a squad on sustainable wages full of young and cheap players that may not work out but won't cripple us if they don't. Those that did could be added to in later years with more expensive players on better wages once the wage bill was sorted and we no longer needed so many players to be added.

To say the tatters of his approach lie behind us is as melodramatic as it is incorrect in my book. We have stayed in the PL because of him and we've done so while reducing the wage bill again because of him, if and when we get sold those two things will be large factors in the deal.

You say you fully endorse his approach this summer but the plan (ass HH) said a year ago was always to add more experience and this summer. Only he is having to do it now on Bosman's because Lerner has had a change of heart.

You are right in what you say about Lerner having stopped Lambert having to think about the long term but I don't see that as a positive I see it as being another black mark against our idiotic owner. Lambert should have been backed this summer to move on with the job having in Lerner's own words 'done everything asked of him'.

I welcome the signings Lambert's made in the circumstances this summer but I don't see them being positive in the wider context of the future of the club or indicative that he has got it wrong these last two years.

We needed a bigger squad, on wages we could afford and built with players that were on lower wages than those they replaced. Even those players that ultimately will move on have in the most part played a reasonable number of games in the last two seasons and so played their parts. I really don't see that buying just a couple of experienced players last summer was an option for him or would have seen us do much better if at all.

Spot on IMO it seems Lerner changed tact at the height of his expenditure and now he's done it at the bottom. Lambert just needs to be backed to the usual level of roughly £20m but spent on 2/3 quality players not the half dozen of budget pot luck signings. Hopefully Lerner realises this and especially with us likely to get a £15m + profit for a change it wouldn't be costing him that much if anything.

[blandy]

There's a number of good posts above. The one thing I think has been created is a massively hacked off fanbase. Doesn't matter who blames who - Lambert, Faulkner, Lerner, FFP or all of them, the manager and team will start the season with a huge drop in gates, fans whose patience with results and performances utterly exhausted.

That's a new burden for the players and staff. If we don't start well, it'll become totally poisonous. With RL in the U.S. and no one other than Lambert here, the media and fan pressure will be too much too quickly.

[TrentVilla]

There's a number of good posts above. The one thing I think has been created is a massively hacked off fanbase. Doesn't matter who blames who - Lambert, Faulkner, Lerner, FFP or all of them, the manager and team will start the season with a huge drop in gates, fans whose patience with results and performances utterly exhausted.

That's a new burden for the players and staff. If we don't start well, it'll become totally poisonous. With RL in the U.S. and no one other than Lambert here, the media and fan pressure will be too much too quickly.

Sadly you could well be right.

[bannedfromHandV]

If we start badly

[Guest]

I completely disagree, and struggle to see how Lamberrt has been anything other than pragmatic in his approach to the job. He has accepted his lot, no moaned and tried to do the best he can with a view to both the short term and long term often to his own detriment rather than just focus on the short term like most managers which is in part how we got in this mess.

I don't think Lambert spent his first two seasons signing players for some great imagined future. I think he spent two years scratching around for bargains while trying to off load rubbish and reduce our wage bill swollen by crap high paid players and a clueless owner.

I think it is optimistic in the extreme to think you can inherit what Lambert did and spend £43m over two seasons and have any hope of 'driving forward' and being 'competitive' in the PL.

Lambert has tried to make the most out of what he had ((with some exceptions) and what funds he had to try and build a squad on sustainable wages full of young and cheap players that may not work out but won't cripple us if they don't. Those that did could be added to in later years with more expensive players on better wages once the wage bill was sorted and we no longer needed so many players to be added.

To say the tatters of his approach lie behind us is as melodramatic as it is incorrect in my book. We have stayed in the PL because of him and we've done so while reducing the wage bill again because of him, if and when we get sold those two things will be large factors in the deal.

You say you fully endorse his approach this summer but the plan (ass HH) said a year ago was always to add more experience and this summer. Only he is having to do it now on Bosman's because Lerner has had a change of heart.

You are right in what you say about Lerner having stopped Lambert having to think about the long term but I don't see that as a positive I see it as being another black mark against our idiotic owner. Lambert should have been backed this summer to move on with the job having in Lerner's own words 'done everything asked of him'.

I welcome the signings Lambert's made in the circumstances this summer but I don't see them being positive in the wider context of the future of the club or indicative that he has got it wrong these last two years.

We needed a bigger squad, on wages we could afford and built with players that were on lower wages than those they replaced. Even those players that ultimately will move on have in the most part played a reasonable number of games in the last two seasons and so played their parts. I really don't see that buying just a couple of experienced players last summer was an option for him or would have seen us do much better if at all.

 

Trent this is exactly what I would write about the situation. Nice one.

[daggy_333]

 

I completely disagree, and struggle to see how Lamberrt has been anything other than pragmatic in his approach to the job. He has accepted his lot, no moaned and tried to do the best he can with a view to both the short term and long term often to his own detriment rather than just focus on the short term like most managers which is in part how we got in this mess.

I don't think Lambert spent his first two seasons signing players for some great imagined future. I think he spent two years scratching around for bargains while trying to off load rubbish and reduce our wage bill swollen by crap high paid players and a clueless owner.

I think it is optimistic in the extreme to think you can inherit what Lambert did and spend £43m over two seasons and have any hope of 'driving forward' and being 'competitive' in the PL.

Lambert has tried to make the most out of what he had ((with some exceptions) and what funds he had to try and build a squad on sustainable wages full of young and cheap players that may not work out but won't cripple us if they don't. Those that did could be added to in later years with more expensive players on better wages once the wage bill was sorted and we no longer needed so many players to be added.

To say the tatters of his approach lie behind us is as melodramatic as it is incorrect in my book. We have stayed in the PL because of him and we've done so while reducing the wage bill again because of him, if and when we get sold those two things will be large factors in the deal.

You say you fully endorse his approach this summer but the plan (ass HH) said a year ago was always to add more experience and this summer. Only he is having to do it now on Bosman's because Lerner has had a change of heart.

You are right in what you say about Lerner having stopped Lambert having to think about the long term but I don't see that as a positive I see it as being another black mark against our idiotic owner. Lambert should have been backed this summer to move on with the job having in Lerner's own words 'done everything asked of him'.

I welcome the signings Lambert's made in the circumstances this summer but I don't see them being positive in the wider context of the future of the club or indicative that he has got it wrong these last two years.

We needed a bigger squad, on wages we could afford and built with players that were on lower wages than those they replaced. Even those players that ultimately will move on have in the most part played a reasonable number of games in the last two seasons and so played their parts. I really don't see that buying just a couple of experienced players last summer was an option for him or would have seen us do much better if at all.

 

Trent this is exactly what I would write about the situation. Nice one.

 

Yep Trent has written pretty much exactly how i feel only I couldn't be bothered to type it lol.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

But we haven't reduced the wage bill because of him. Surely he was given a budget for fees and wages and told to cut his cloth accordingly.

He also created the bomb squad, which, could be argued, meant that the players within couldn't be moved on and became damaged goods, so even now they still inflate our wage bill. I'm sure they'd have all been rid of by now if he hadn't made such a bad decision.

There's also a lot in there that could, if you wanted to, apply to McLeish, but that wouldn't be allowed because his face didn't fit.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe

[TrentVilla]

But we haven't reduced the wage bill because of him. Surely he was given a budget for fees and wages and told to cut his cloth accordingly.

He also created the bomb squad, which, could be argued, meant that the players within couldn't be moved on and became damaged goods, so even now they still inflate our wage bill. I'm sure they'd have all been rid of by now if he hadn't made such a bad decision.

There's also a lot in there that could, if you wanted to, apply to McLeish, but that wouldn't be allowed because his face didn't fit.

Yes we have.

As for players not being moved on, well he has moved some on there is only Bent and Hutton left and he had Bent off the wage bill last season as was Hutton for part of it. A number of others have gone so your suggestion they couldn't be shifted because of Lambert is simply inaccurate.

And no, a lot of what I posted really didn't apply to McLeish who was the absolute epitome of a short term manager.

[mikeyp102]

But we haven't reduced the wage bill because of him. Surely he was given a budget for fees and wages and told to cut his cloth accordingly.

He also created the bomb squad, which, could be argued, meant that the players within couldn't be moved on and became damaged goods, so even now they still inflate our wage bill. I'm sure they'd have all been rid of by now if he hadn't made such a bad decision.

There's also a lot in there that could, if you wanted to, apply to McLeish, but that wouldn't be allowed because his face didn't fit.

Yes we have.

The accounts have shown we haven't

[TrentVilla]

 

 

But we haven't reduced the wage bill because of him. Surely he was given a budget for fees and wages and told to cut his cloth accordingly.

He also created the bomb squad, which, could be argued, meant that the players within couldn't be moved on and became damaged goods, so even now they still inflate our wage bill. I'm sure they'd have all been rid of by now if he hadn't made such a bad decision.

There's also a lot in there that could, if you wanted to, apply to McLeish, but that wouldn't be allowed because his face didn't fit.

Yes we have.

 

The accounts have shown we haven't

 

 

The last set of accounts were released on 28th Feb 2014 and were for the period 2012-2013 since which a lot of high earning players have gone and lower paid players signed.

 

The wage bill has been reduced as will be shown when the accounts come out for 2013-2014.

[blandy]

As for players not being moved on, well he has moved some on there is only Bent and Hutton left 

 

minor point of order, and Given and N'Zogbia, but yeah, the wages are down - according to deliberate leak by perhaps Faulkner or Lambert / guesswork by a journo (I dunno which of those two - guess or leak), a while back to around 50 mill.

 

But like with Ellis, once you start focussing only on cost cutting, you've lost the key to the thing. It's a revenous beast for sure, a club and the need for money in the prem, but it's a spiral to nowheresville to only think about saving costs.

[dn1982]

I think the fans preconceptions may play a massive part next season. I just hope that every one realises where we are and give Lambert a bit more time to prove them wrong. The time for him to be sacked has gone (for now) so we all need to back him and the players hopefully we get off to a good start in the first 3 otherwise I fear for him and the club but if we get through that the next few are a free go in the sense we won't be expected to get anything. Last year in those games we had our best results so it could be a blessing. I'm quietly confident we will have a good season and if we sign up Vlaar Delph and Gabby and then add 2 good signings it may lift some of the gloom and we can start in a positive manner.

[briny_ear]

Trent

 

You may well be right that he's been pragmatic all along - I was only quoting what his one-time right-hand man HairyHands told us, and was trying to be kind to him, since at least  amid the wreckage of his first two years you could say he was trying to build for the future in very difficult circumstances. That's also what his defenders used to say about him.

 

However if he was trying to be pragmatic, his failure is even bigger than I thought. He has bought loads of players who had no chance of cutting it in the premier League in their first season, if not second or third, so what was the point of buying them? He left a very small and threadbare squad to struggle their way through two seasons with little help from his inward transfers. He could have brought in a few of the old hands on loan, like he is now finally doing, a lot earlier and the team may well have had more structure and resilience.

 

Anyhow, he is now following what I regard to be a more sensible and pragmatic approach, so I suppose we can all at least agree that is a good thing, whatever disagreements there are about his past performance.

[Vive_La_Villa]

I'd say on the whole the majority of fans know that considering the circumstances getting rid of Lambert wouldn't be the answer.

We really do need to stop losing so many games at home though.

[TRO]

we seem to have bounced from one piss poor decision to another.

 

ditto....and infinity beckons