TRO Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Plus it's cherry picking an example of 1 player from 1 club. You'd need to look at the cost of complete squads and the breakdown of players that cost less than a couple of £M and who are on lower wages. Then you enter the debate on whether Lambert did / didn't have the option of buying less, better quality players. I could have made loads of examples, but why, when it's there for all to see. How many examples equals credible point....is there a formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG_Villa_Fan Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 It's a sorry state of a club when some of its fans resort to slagging off the other fans in order to show support for a failing manager and players, none of which will likely be at Villa in a couple of years. Unlike the fans being slagged off of course. Shameful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Mark Delaney.....oops wrong era, will have to try again. Does 2weeks ago constitute a wrong era....where is the cut off point? Martin Laursen....oops slightly over 3 mill..,,don't count must try better. oh perhaps I'm wrong,who cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Got to agree, £1m in league one is a huge amount.Um, not sure what point is being made here. £1m is £1m wherever it is spent!While that is true, I understand what dodgyknees is saying. £1m means far more to a League 1 club than a Premier League club. They're likely to sell talents - even those with massive potential - for very small amounts, because even small amounts are huge to those clubs. What does that have to do with the buying club, spotting the talent.....wasn't that a risk to Southampton. Teams succeed and fail, largely by their signings, the amounts of money are clearly helpful, but so is the ability to spot talent. Chelsea could possibly win nothing, food for thought. Edited April 30, 2014 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Personally I thought Lambert had actually done a decent job this season but I just can't understand this collapse since the Chelsea win. We've had bad periods like this earlier in the season but never this bad and while the loss of Benteke was a blow I fail to believe he's the difference between mid-table and relegation form. I mean, we did ok with him out before Christmas (with Kozak admittedly). Edited April 30, 2014 by Mantis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 It's a sorry state of a club when some of its fans resort to slagging off the other fans in order to show support for a failing manager and players, none of which will likely be at Villa in a couple of years. Unlike the fans being slagged off of course. Shameful. I think when the audience get the blame for poor performances, it's time to exit the debate ....,it's absurd. Don't teams sometimes have to play behind closed doors, what then,can't they run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I like what he tried to do - sure he's made mistakes, who doesn't - problem is that with tight funds and the squad in need of rebuilding - he didn't have much room for error - a £3m flop at Liverpool hardly gets mention - because the £10 - £20m guys come in and do the business. A couple of ropey purchases at villa, and we just can't carry it.... I think he should have taken a more gradual approach, and slowly phased out, Bent, Hutton, etc as this only magnified his errors. All that said its a results business and the results haven't been good enough - not by a long way - so he can have no complaints - if as I expect , his time here draws to a close in 3 games time. I won't whoop for joy - as I don't see the next bloke doing much better so long as the Lerner regime remains... Could he turn it round given more time and funds - As one of his supporters I've gotta say I honestly doubt it - I feel his credibility has been shot to pieces, he would need to recruit his own coaching staff - and have funds to buy some quality players - even then we start the season without Benteke... Its no great achievement, but we hadn't been in the relegation zone all season, Beat Norwich and Chelsea and then went 1-0 up v stoke - how bright it all looked at that point - we folded in that game, Benteke got injured, and a brief window of hope slammed shut 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Lambert has done a lot of things wrong since coming here but shutting out the likes of Bent, Hutton, Given etc was not one of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaGoMarching Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Personally I thought Lambert had actually done a decent job this season but I just can't understand this collapse since the Chelsea win. We've had bad periods like this earlier in the season but never this bad and while the loss of Benteke was a blow I fail to believe he's the difference between mid-table and relegation form. I mean, we did ok with him out before Christmas (with Kozak admittedly). That's the problem. Something deeply wrong within the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Personally I thought Lambert had actually done a decent job this season but I just can't understand this collapse since the Chelsea win. We've had bad periods like this earlier in the season but never this bad and while the loss of Benteke was a blow I fail to believe he's the difference between mid-table and relegation form. I mean, we did ok with him out before Christmas (with Kozak admittedly). That's the problem. Something deeply wrong within the club. Indeed, but what is it? There's definitely something going on in the background, whether it involves Lambert, the ownership, both or neither I don't know. Edited April 30, 2014 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Mark Delaney.....oops wrong era, will have to try again. Does 2weeks ago constitute a wrong era....where is the cut off point? Martin Laursen....oops slightly over 3 mill..,,don't count must try better. oh perhaps I'm wrong,who cares. I'm not too sure the point you're trying to make, no ones denying that there's bargains to be had, surely if they were obvious ones then someone would of signed them by now. I don't see many clubs going into the championship and league 1 to buy players. For the bargains out there, theres been 3 times as many big money flops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Personally I thought Lambert had actually done a decent job this season but I just can't understand this collapse since the Chelsea win. We've had bad periods like this earlier in the season but never this bad and while the loss of Benteke was a blow I fail to believe he's the difference between mid-table and relegation form. I mean, we did ok with him out before Christmas (with Kozak admittedly). If you look at the performance stats, the collapse actually began early in December. The away win to Southampton was probably the high point of our season. After that match we were 10th, with 19 points from 14 games. Since then, our performance has been W4 D4 L13. We have scored 19 goals and conceded 37 and we have amassed 16 points from 21 games. The six games immediately after the Southampton game gave us just 1 point, exactly like the run we have had since the Chelsea game.The back-to-back wins against Norwich and Chelsea were a brief moment of light amidst increasing gloom (and in retrospect gave us 6 crucial points that will probably keep us up). Some of us have been trying to point out the long term decline in performance since December but have not always found a receptive audience. Where I do agree with you is that the players just seem to have lost all heart since about half way through the home game to Stoke. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amo69 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Personally I thought Lambert had actually done a decent job this season but I just can't understand this collapse since the Chelsea win. We've had bad periods like this earlier in the season but never this bad and while the loss of Benteke was a blow I fail to believe he's the difference between mid-table and relegation form. I mean, we did ok with him out before Christmas (with Kozak admittedly). But when we had that spell without Bentake didn't you get this feeling they we were getting the rub of the green with the results and if would never last? There were games we won which left you thinking wow how the hell did we win that. Thank god we got 3 points but please don't play like that every week. You get where I'm coming from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Why exactly is the fact that Lambert has turned us into a 'one-man team' being used a reason to defend him? The fact his entire system fails unless Benteke plays (and plays well) is a bad thing. Edited April 30, 2014 by Isa 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Lambert has done a lot of things wrong since coming here but shutting out the likes of Bent, Hutton, Given etc was not one of them. I'd still rather have Bent playing for us than Holt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amo69 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Why exactly is the fact that Lambert has turned us into a 'one-man team' being used a reason to defend him? The fact his entire system fails unless Benteke plays (and plays well) is a bad thing. We shouldn't use Bentake as a defence but at the same times it's because of this one signing we are still a premier league team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Personally I thought Lambert had actually done a decent job this season but I just can't understand this collapse since the Chelsea win. We've had bad periods like this earlier in the season but never this bad and while the loss of Benteke was a blow I fail to believe he's the difference between mid-table and relegation form. I mean, we did ok with him out before Christmas (with Kozak admittedly). If you look at the performance stats, the collapse actually began early in December. The away win to Southampton was probably the high point of our season. After that match we were 10th, with 19 points from 14 games. Since then, our performance has been W4 D4 L13. We have scored 19 goals and conceded 37 and we have amassed 16 points from 21 games. The six games immediately after the Southampton game gave us just 1 point, exactly like the run we have had since the Chelsea game.The back-to-back wins against Norwich and Chelsea were a brief moment of light amidst increasing gloom (and in retrospect gave us 6 crucial points that will probably keep us up). Some of us have been trying to point out the long term decline in performance since December but have not always found a receptive audience. Where I do agree with you is that the players just seem to have lost all heart since about half way through the home game to Stoke. I think you make a good point briny I was at the Fulham game after the Southampton win.....the least said the better.....we then went on a bad run. The loss of Benteke I suspect forced us in to a double dip, that resulted in players losing heart. I fear the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Personally I thought Lambert had actually done a decent job this season but I just can't understand this collapse since the Chelsea win. We've had bad periods like this earlier in the season but never this bad and while the loss of Benteke was a blow I fail to believe he's the difference between mid-table and relegation form. I mean, we did ok with him out before Christmas (with Kozak admittedly). If you look at the performance stats, the collapse actually began early in December. The away win to Southampton was probably the high point of our season. After that match we were 10th, with 19 points from 14 games. Since then, our performance has been W4 D4 L13. We have scored 19 goals and conceded 37 and we have amassed 16 points from 21 games. The six games immediately after the Southampton game gave us just 1 point, exactly like the run we have had since the Chelsea game.The back-to-back wins against Norwich and Chelsea were a brief moment of light amidst increasing gloom (and in retrospect gave us 6 crucial points that will probably keep us up). Some of us have been trying to point out the long term decline in performance since December but have not always found a receptive audience. Where I do agree with you is that the players just seem to have lost all heart since about half way through the home game to Stoke. No, the collapse didn't begin in December. If it did we'd have been relegated ages ago. Yes our form overall since then has been bad but many of those defeats have come in the past 2 months. After the Chelsea game that stat stood at W4 D3 L8. While that stat certainly isn't great it's a damn sight better than the 5 defeats and 1 draw since. Personally I don't believe there was much of a decline after December - we carried on with inconsistent results and performances. It's only since the Chelsea game that we've been consistently terrible (let's not forget that what was an ok defence has now shipped 4 goals in 3 of the last 6 games). Why exactly is the fact that Lambert has turned us into a 'one-man team' being used a reason to defend him? The fact his entire system fails unless Benteke plays (and plays well) is a bad thing. I might have missed something, but who is defending him on this basis? Personally I don't think we're a one-man team anyway, but losing someone like Benteke certainly doesn't help (while at the same time not excusing the shit of the last few games, before I get jumped on). Personally I thought Lambert had actually done a decent job this season but I just can't understand this collapse since the Chelsea win. We've had bad periods like this earlier in the season but never this bad and while the loss of Benteke was a blow I fail to believe he's the difference between mid-table and relegation form. I mean, we did ok with him out before Christmas (with Kozak admittedly). But when we had that spell without Bentake didn't you get this feeling they we were getting the rub of the green with the results and if would never last? There were games we won which left you thinking wow how the hell did we win that. Thank god we got 3 points but please don't play like that every week. You get where I'm coming from? No, not at all. IMO we often played ugly football that produced some results - that's a lot different to what we're doing now which is playing ugly football and producing no results at all. While I do get where you're coming from, I think people often get mixed up when it comes to style of play and results. If we were putting in the performances of late 2013 (excluding the annual Christmas/New Year collapse) now we would've been safe weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amo69 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 But that's my point Mantis. Those performances and results were not sustainable. They were the kind you can scrape now and then as long as you've got someone who can put the ball in the back of the next when and if the chance came. Even though we won a few games it never game me confidence that we would be able to do it on a regular basis. Now the Liverpool first half on the other hand made me think we'd be fine. I was more confident that we would finish mid table from the way we played in that game than I did from the Southampton, Man City games. After those games I was delighted with 3 points but worried for the season. Chelsea away was also another performance which made me think we'd be fine. Yet we lost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmarsha_926 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2617209/Aston-Villa-raise-expectations-targetting-Javier-Hernandez-Lewis-Holtby.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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