Popular Post NurembergVillan Posted April 9, 2014 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted April 9, 2014 people need to put Lambert into the context of what he has to work with. Cardiff the 2nd bottom team have spent about the same this season than Lambert entire reign. Could Mourinho or Ferguson so wonders with his budget, its hard to tell especially when even if he wanted experienced Premier League players they cost about 3 or 4 million more because they come from same league or are English Don't you be coming in here with your logic. It's not welcome. If you haven't brought a pitchfork you can eff off back to Off Topic. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Surely any sort of progress is progress no matter how little So you'll be happy if we increase our points total by 1 point each year and finish above 50 in around 9 years? Thats clearly not what he has said at all. Selective quoting doesn't help your arguement. It makes you look idiotic and narrow minded. What he said was: That base was set before he arrived. I give him until Jan. Marginally increasing the home form will of course mean progress, as long as the away form is maintained. Surely any sort of progress is progress no matter how little. I don't think we've been involved in a relegation battle this season so I'd expect to finish between 10th and 13th next season or between 45 and 50 points. If you prefer points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Surely any sort of progress is progress no matter how little So you'll be happy if we increase our points total by 1 point each year and finish above 50 in around 9 years? Where have I said I'd be happy with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post penguin Posted April 9, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted April 9, 2014 The team have proved they are capable of playing good positive football; this is what frustrates me the most. It proves the ability is there but, for me, it proves the managerial nous isn't in order to achieve some kind of consistency. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Surely any sort of progress is progress no matter how littleSo you'll be happy if we increase our points total by 1 point each year and finish above 50 in around 9 years? Where have I said I'd be happy with that? You didn't hence the question mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 people need to put Lambert into the context of what he has to work with. Cardiff the 2nd bottom team have spent about the same this season than Lambert entire reign. Could Mourinho or Ferguson so wonders with his budget, its hard to tell especially when even if he wanted experienced Premier League players they cost about 3 or 4 million more because they come from same league or are English Don't you be coming in here with your logic. It's not welcome. If you haven't brought a pitchfork you can eff off back to Off Topic. Don't know what I was thinking, I might be still drunk. back to the Lovely Ladies thread I go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 people need to put Lambert into the context of what he has to work with. Cardiff the 2nd bottom team have spent about the same this season than Lambert entire reign. Could Mourinho or Ferguson so wonders with his budget, its hard to tell especially when even if he wanted experienced Premier League players they cost about 3 or 4 million more because they come from same league or are English Don't you be coming in here with your logic. It's not welcome. If you haven't brought a pitchfork you can eff off back to Off Topic. If the conditions he has to work under justify club record lows then does that mean the owner who is responsible for these conditions is one of the worst in the clubs history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) I haven't seen this linked here. Apologies if it's already posted http://financialfootball.wordpress.com/2014/04/07/aston-villa-the-three-year-plan-analysed/ Aston Villa – The Wages Battle It only made sense that I start this blog off with a report on my beloved club, Aston Villa. The end of the 2013/14 season is fast approaching and Villa are amidst one of the tightest relegation battles in years. Minds are starting to worry (again!) and the promised rebuilding of the squad seems all but a distant memory. Why Lambert? So, why did Randy Lerner and Paul Faulkner decide that Paul Lambert was the right man for the job? He had certainly made a decent name for himself, taking Norwich from league 1 to the top flight in just 3 seasons but is one impressive season in the premier league the real reason? A quick comparison of Aston Villa and Norwich’s financial accounts for the 2011/12 season, Lambert’s last in charge of Norwich, shows what is most likely the real reason for his appointment. During the 2011/12 season, the wage/revenue ratio of Aston Villa was the highest in the league at 94% and there are no prizes for guessing which club had the lowest ratio. That’s right, Paul Lambert’s Norwich had a wage/revenue ratio of just 49%! It is important to remember that there is no split between players and back-room staff wages in this calculation however, it is likely that the majority of wages will be going to the players. Now, I just want you to take that figure in for a minute…94% of the money coming in was being sent straight back out on wages, we were in a bad place and something needed to happen! My only guess for why the wages got in such a state, would have been our failed attempt at european football. I don’t want to go into detail about the extra income received from achieving european football, perhaps thats a topic for another day but it’s no secret that clubs will see a considerable boost in income. Perhaps this is what happened in the pre-Lambert era, money was thrown at ‘quality’ players without fear because the extra money from european football would mean the players practically paid for themselves. The only problem with this is that when you don’t reach european football, you’re left in a financial mess! The Lambert Effect So, have things changed since Lambert’s arrival? Well, we can only go based on figures from the 2012/13 season, as the 2013/14 season is still in play and the financial statements will not be filed until around March 2015. It would be unfair to judge Lambert’s wages fix, as 2 transfer windows to unload multiple high earning players is not enough. The wages costs actually increased by 3% during his first season in charge, which is most likely due to Lambert’s new signing as well as, the addition of a couple of his most trusted coaches. Luckily, we had a 27% increase in turnover (presumably due to increased broadcasting revenue, another topic that I won’t get into now), which reduced the wages/revenue percentage down to 76% and is a lot closer to the 2011/12 premier league average of 70%. One of many controversial decisions made by Lambert, is his lack of inclusion of the ‘bomb squad’ members. Villa’s young squad are renowned for their inconsistency and are prone to making errors on the pitch, an issue that could be resolved by including some of our more experienced players. After all, we are still paying their wages, so why not play them?! Many fans have accused Lambert of falling out with the players but this might no be the case. The equal pay act 1970 states that employees in an equivalent role should not be paid less based on their age, sex, religion, etc. Now, I’m no law expert, but I’m pretty sure that the Villa back-room staff are protecting themselves against this law. I’d really like to hear from someone that works in employment law to tell me if that’s the case or not? My thoughts are that if you’re playing 2 strikers every week and one is getting £20k and the other £50k, is this not discrimination? They’re doing the same job, are they not? But, force the player on £50k in with the youth squad and you could probably argue that he’s technically a player/coach? Any employment law professionals out there that could shed some light on this? To Conclude Were Villa right to appoint Lambert in the first place? Absolutely! The club had some serious issues with wages and who better to sort it out than the manager of the club with the best wage control? Has Lambert reduced the wage bill? It’s hard to tell until the accounts for the 2013/14 season are released. During Lambert’s first season with Villa, the wages stayed roughly the same but it would’ve been a near impossible task to reduce them that quickly! So, is he doing a good or a bad job? Again, it’s hard to tell until we can see this seasons accounts but, in my opinion, it looks like he is on track to do a good job so long as he can keep us in the top flight for another year. All in all, It’s hard to assess how well the three year plan is going until we can see the figures for the 2013/14 season. As soon as they are released, sometime around March 2015, I will look to further analyse the club’s position to see if the Lambert effect is visible or not. I hope this report has proved to be an interesting read for Aston Villa fans and that it has shown everyone the extent of the wages mess we were in prior to Lambert’s arrival. If you ask me, the real test for Lambert will be the 2014/15 season. There are a few more contracts due to expire at the end of this season and hopefully we will be able to lose a few more members of the bomb squad. This should give us a little bit extra money to start re-investing and the squad rebuild can finally get underway! Mike Jefferson Sources: Deloitte Annual Review of Football Finance 2013, Aston Villa FC Limited accounts for the year ended 31 May 2012 and 31 May 2013. Edited April 9, 2014 by Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 people need to put Lambert into the context of what he has to work with. Cardiff the 2nd bottom team have spent about the same this season than Lambert entire reign. Could Mourinho or Ferguson so wonders with his budget, its hard to tell especially when even if he wanted experienced Premier League players they cost about 3 or 4 million more because they come from same league or are English Don't you be coming in here with your logic. It's not welcome. If you haven't brought a pitchfork you can eff off back to Off Topic. If the conditions he has to work under justify club record lows then does that mean the owner who is responsible for these conditions is one of the worst in the clubs history? so why is Lambert getting all the criticism if that's how you feel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 people need to put Lambert into the context of what he has to work with. Cardiff the 2nd bottom team have spent about the same this season than Lambert entire reign. Could Mourinho or Ferguson so wonders with his budget, its hard to tell especially when even if he wanted experienced Premier League players they cost about 3 or 4 million more because they come from same league or are English Don't you be coming in here with your logic. It's not welcome. If you haven't brought a pitchfork you can eff off back to Off Topic. If the conditions he has to work under justify club record lows then does that mean the owner who is responsible for these conditions is one of the worst in the clubs history? so why is Lambert getting all the criticism if that's how you feel? Have I not made my feelings on Lerner clear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 people need to put Lambert into the context of what he has to work with. Cardiff the 2nd bottom team have spent about the same this season than Lambert entire reign. Could Mourinho or Ferguson so wonders with his budget, its hard to tell especially when even if he wanted experienced Premier League players they cost about 3 or 4 million more because they come from same league or are English Why do people insist on using the Mourhino/Fergie argument? Do people honestly believe that if Chelsea loaned us Mourhino and his staff for 2 weeks that we would not have a fully motivated team playing good football then they are kidding themselves. It is not easy to manage Chelsea or Man U as Moyes has proved. These men are masters at what they do, they are the crème de la crème and their records prove this. Verse versa could Lambert have got the Chelsea team into the semi's of the CL? I doubt it. In my opinion Lambert has not made progress this year. We go to Palace this weekend and I hold no hope of coming away with anything other than zero points. The end of the season is close and I think Lerner should be getting in 2 people come May/June. Firstly a COO (Chief Operations Officer) to handle transfers, contracts and all on the pitch matters and secondly a new coach/manager to run the teams. Lerner also needs to give a reasonable budget for new players and have some trust that the COO/manager will identify the right players on a wage structure which enables us to compete with our peers. I think that this is a bridge too far for Lerner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted April 9, 2014 Moderator Share Posted April 9, 2014 people need to put Lambert into the context of what he has to work with. Cardiff the 2nd bottom team have spent about the same this season than Lambert entire reign. Could Mourinho or Ferguson so wonders with his budget, its hard to tell especially when even if he wanted experienced Premier League players they cost about 3 or 4 million more because they come from same league or are English Don't you be coming in here with your logic. It's not welcome. If you haven't brought a pitchfork you can eff off back to Off Topic. If the conditions he has to work under justify club record lows then does that mean the owner who is responsible for these conditions is one of the worst in the clubs history? You could make a pretty good argument for that, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 people need to put Lambert into the context of what he has to work with. Cardiff the 2nd bottom team have spent about the same this season than Lambert entire reign. Could Mourinho or Ferguson so wonders with his budget, its hard to tell especially when even if he wanted experienced Premier League players they cost about 3 or 4 million more because they come from same league or are English Don't you be coming in here with your logic. It's not welcome. If you haven't brought a pitchfork you can eff off back to Off Topic. If the conditions he has to work under justify club record lows then does that mean the owner who is responsible for these conditions is one of the worst in the clubs history? You could make a pretty good argument for that, yes. You could, by the same token argue he was a responsible owner because he is trying to ensure the club is financially sustainable. (Granted he is completely responsible for the instability in the first place) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lions_Roar Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Surely any sort of progress is progress no matter how littleSo you'll be happy if we increase our points total by 1 point each year and finish above 50 in around 9 years?Where have I said I'd be happy with that? You didn't hence the question mark. I laid out my expectations for next season in the bit that you decided to cut out. 1 more point is progression, that surely can't be argued? However what can be argued is whether that's enough progression and no it wouldn't be. Having said that though, if that one extra point puts you up to say 10th then you said you take top half next season so surely that would be enough? It then comes back to points or league position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted April 9, 2014 Moderator Share Posted April 9, 2014 people need to put Lambert into the context of what he has to work with. Cardiff the 2nd bottom team have spent about the same this season than Lambert entire reign. Could Mourinho or Ferguson so wonders with his budget, its hard to tell especially when even if he wanted experienced Premier League players they cost about 3 or 4 million more because they come from same league or are English Don't you be coming in here with your logic. It's not welcome. If you haven't brought a pitchfork you can eff off back to Off Topic. If the conditions he has to work under justify club record lows then does that mean the owner who is responsible for these conditions is one of the worst in the clubs history? You could make a pretty good argument for that, yes. You could, by the same token argue he was a responsible owner because he is trying to ensure the club is financially sustainable. (Granted he is completely responsible for the instability in the first place) Like I said, you could make a pretty good argument for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) Clearly since Lambert has been here there has been improvement in one area only and that is to rid ourselves of players who weren't deserving of their fat luxurious contracts. Should that be enough to be apathetic towards his result record when you also factor in the chairman's lack of investment in the team compared to other Premiership teams? To answer the first question any other manager taking the job would have had to deal with the wage issue and would have acted accordingly so I'm not sure that should be something you can base any defence of Lambert on. The follow on argument from that is well while removing those players and revamping the squad he has managed to keep us in the Premiership. The opportunity to revamp a squad with reasonable funding, to be allowed to build your own team is something that most managers would see as a welcome challenge, certainly a manager who would want to enhance his reputation and knowing that you were following a manager who was ultimately hated by the majority of the fan base would be seen by many as a no lose situation. Considering the players that Lambert had at his disposal before starting to rebuild and backing his own judgement in the transfer market the manager and chairman would have at the very least expected to retain our Premiership status. Any other manager coming into Villa Park would not have expected to worry about relegation so managing to keep us in the Premiership with some very poor teams around us would have been a low starting point of expectancy and not really something to warrant praise. I've often wondered to myself what was Lambert's expectations when he came to our club? He would have come here full of confidence knowing that with very little investment he had already gained promotion for Norwich and then managed to secure mid table playing some good football while beating us with a degree of comfort in his last game. In that respect maybe he was a good fit for us since some fan expectancy had hit the floor and there was a higher tolerance level towards mediocrity because at least that was better than what we had under McLeish. Since we have been ever present in the Premier League there is no praise here for being promoted and certainly no praise for being in a relegation battle in season one and positioned just above the relegation zone in season two. So in his own mind has he deemed himself a failure at Villa Park or does he gage success by replicating his placement with Norwich? Reading his comments in the press one would assume that he realizes the expectancy levels are higher here certainly more than they were at Norwich so with that in mind he must be particularly disappointed with our performances in his second season with us as we are currently heading in the wrong direction again. So with very little money and with an inferior squad to our own he overachieved at Norwich. With better players at our club and 40+m to spend achieving one relegation dogfight and struggling to stay mid table he has been deemed by some on here as doing a good job for this club. You wonder then why those who have had the nerve to criticize Lambert get so exasperated with the stated points of defence above. Edited April 9, 2014 by shaggy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 people need to put Lambert into the context of what he has to work with. Cardiff the 2nd bottom team have spent about the same this season than Lambert entire reign. Could Mourinho or Ferguson so wonders with his budget, its hard to tell especially when even if he wanted experienced Premier League players they cost about 3 or 4 million more because they come from same league or are English Don't you be coming in here with your logic. It's not welcome. If you haven't brought a pitchfork you can eff off back to Off Topic. If the conditions he has to work under justify club record lows then does that mean the owner who is responsible for these conditions is one of the worst in the clubs history? You could make a pretty good argument for that, yes. I think I'd agree. I just find a lot of those that defend Lambert based on his conditions don't seem to have an issue with the owner. It doesn't make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) The team have proved they are capable of playing good positive football; this is what frustrates me the most. It proves the ability is there but, for me, it proves the managerial nous isn't in order to achieve some kind of consistency. I don't think it needs to be regarded as negative or frustrating that we're not consistent (yet) and have still produced good performances. We've drafted in near to nineteen players over a two year period from many different countries and levels of football, it would've been astonishing if we're consistently brilliant after undergoing such a transformation in personnel over a short period of time. It's all a bit vague on what people want or expect, I don't believe a new manager will cure all of our ills and make us an immediate success. Lambert needs another season to be fully assessed. Edited April 9, 2014 by GENTLEMAN 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Surely any sort of progress is progress no matter how little So you'll be happy if we increase our points total by 1 point each year and finish above 50 in around 9 years? Where have I said I'd be happy with that? Because that's how it works - if you're not 100% anti-Lambert and think everything at the club is shit then you obviously must love absolutely everything that's happening at the club. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Based on Lambert's remit that reads: 'peanuts' I would suggest keeping us in the league over the last two seasons is indeed a success. The blame, if any should be directed at the situation he has inherited due to past over-spending. Yes he can be criticised for our on-field play, tactics and all-round lack of motivation but I do not think there are many managers out there who could have done any better. I am upset like many of you that we don't seem capable of improving on last season much because a few weeks ago we seemed comfortable in tenth and looking up. I do feel the players should have a long look at themselves as I think after the Chelsea match there are many of them who have their minds elsewhere, like the beach perhaps! Finally I know injuries are part of football but I wonder if we had been luck with injuries, like some other teams had been this season then where would we be and indeed would this thread be as popular? If we stay up and with some healthy improvements on first team eleven in the summer I am confident we can challenge top half next season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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