darrenm Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I'm calling what I see. 90% of game time this season, then plan has been...nothing. No plan, not a sausage; the players panic and kick it long to whoever. Why has this not been addressed? It's been happening since August. You can't honestly believe that. PL is such an incredible con artist that he's stealing a living as a professional manager without so much as even giving a vague game plan. You're thinking of Tim Sherwood. Why has the booting not been addressed? It's been happening since August. What is the game plan? It must concern Lambert that if he has been trying to get them to play a certain way, all they still do is boot it? Why are they not carrying out his instructions? He even got Grant Holt in to get more 'proper men' in the dressing room. Tim, what a joker You're assuming that playing direct is bad and small passing is good. Who says we would have won more if the 'booting' had been addressed? Would we have beaten Arsenal, Man City and Chelsea if we had played it around all day? Would we have won against Southampton if we didn't play by 'booting' - the 3 points that have pretty much ruled us out of relegation this season? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I'm calling what I see. 90% of game time this season, then plan has been...nothing. No plan, not a sausage; the players panic and kick it long to whoever. Why has this not been addressed? It's been happening since August. You can't honestly believe that. PL is such an incredible con artist that he's stealing a living as a professional manager without so much as even giving a vague game plan. You're thinking of Tim Sherwood. Why has the booting not been addressed? It's been happening since August. What is the game plan? It must concern Lambert that if he has been trying to get them to play a certain way, all they still do is boot it? Why are they not carrying out his instructions? He even got Grant Holt in to get more 'proper men' in the dressing room. Tim, what a joker You're assuming that playing direct is bad and small passing is good. Who says we would have won more if the 'booting' had been addressed? Would we have beaten Arsenal, Man City and Chelsea if we had played it around all day? Would we have won against Southampton if we didn't play by 'booting' - the 3 points that have pretty much ruled us out of relegation this season? The Homer Simpson approach has served us well in games granted....but we have lost nearly twice as many as we've won this season which implies the approach isn't all that effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I'm calling what I see. 90% of game time this season, then plan has been...nothing. No plan, not a sausage; the players panic and kick it long to whoever. Why has this not been addressed? It's been happening since August. You can't honestly believe that. PL is such an incredible con artist that he's stealing a living as a professional manager without so much as even giving a vague game plan. You're thinking of Tim Sherwood. Why has the booting not been addressed? It's been happening since August. What is the game plan? It must concern Lambert that if he has been trying to get them to play a certain way, all they still do is boot it? Why are they not carrying out his instructions? He even got Grant Holt in to get more 'proper men' in the dressing room. Tim, what a joker You're assuming that playing direct is bad and small passing is good. Who says we would have won more if the 'booting' had been addressed? Would we have beaten Arsenal, Man City and Chelsea if we had played it around all day? Would we have won against Southampton if we didn't play by 'booting' - the 3 points that have pretty much ruled us out of relegation this season? The Homer Simpson approach has served us well in games granted....but we have lost nearly twice as many as we've won this season which implies the approach isn't all that effective. You can't compare two approaches by simply looking at the statistics for one - that's a logical fallacy. Nobody's denying we've lost a ton of games, but the only question that matters is whether we'd have lost more games with a different approach. Bluntly, I think we would have done. We don't tend to do a lot with possession even when we have got the ball. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Eames, it's very noble of you to say you don't care what division Villa are in, but you must admit that a slide down to the 3rd division would NOT be pretty to watch. I don't know how you can say Lambert isn't being careful with the funds he has. He has needed warm bodies as well as quality lately, and when you're only given enough cash to buy warm bodies, some of them aren't going to be successful purchases. Even so, most of the players Lambert has bought would now be worth more than he paid for them (Benteke, Westwood, Lowton, Bacuna, KEA, Vlaar, Okore, and I think you could make a case for each of the others as well, with difficulty). That has to be the measure of whether Lambert has been careful with the money or not. As far as motivating the players goes, there are far too many variables to pin everything on the manager. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) Lambo has done well to bring the wage bill down and keep us in the league, but if there's a viable option of manager to bring in the Summer, I wouldn't be too sorry to see him go. He has completed his task of bringing down the wages and making sure we don't go down, cheers. Next season, I really really really don't want to be staying up because there are so many other bad teams in the league. I don't understand this way of thinking at all. He's essentially done the first part of his job - get rid of high earners, bring in a new squad. Why shouldn't he be given the chance to build on this? It all depends on the summer (because we really need some quality now) of course, but Lambert has until the end of next season for me. I can't get my head around why people would want to remove a manager that hasn't spectacularly failed after only 2 seasons. Short term upheaval works for about 2% of teams - the rest get shafted (Fulham, Cardiff, West Brom, Sunderland have all done it and are the bottom 4 sides). No one owes anyone anything in football. If there is someone better to move us forward from this Summer onwards, they should be brought in, and Lambert thanked for his time and effort. I bet the stats for new managers coming in during the summer are a helluva lot better than those coming in during the season. I agree, sacking him now would be silly, but a replacement in the Summer would allow any new manager to get ideas across to players. I'm calling what I see. 90% of game time this season, then plan has been...nothing. No plan, not a sausage; the players panic and kick it long to whoever. Why has this not been addressed? It's been happening since August. You can't honestly believe that. PL is such an incredible con artist that he's stealing a living as a professional manager without so much as even giving a vague game plan. You're thinking of Tim Sherwood. Why has the booting not been addressed? It's been happening since August. What is the game plan? It must concern Lambert that if he has been trying to get them to play a certain way, all they still do is boot it? Why are they not carrying out his instructions? He even got Grant Holt in to get more 'proper men' in the dressing room. Tim, what a joker You're assuming that playing direct is bad and small passing is good. Who says we would have won more if the 'booting' had been addressed? Would we have beaten Arsenal, Man City and Chelsea if we had played it around all day? Would we have won against Southampton if we didn't play by 'booting' - the 3 points that have pretty much ruled us out of relegation this season? I'm not assuming that, I'm assuming that playing as direct as we do is not the game plan. If it is, it's being carried out terribly because we are kicking it long and not having runners beyond the target man, we don't even have men around the ball as it comes down half the time. It's just a big aimless smash up the pitch because the players seem to be clueless as to what they should be doing. I would rather pass it a bit more than we do yes, but I have no problem whatsoever with direct play if it leads us to entertaining football and beating the majority of our rivals. We aren't playing "direct football" though, we aren't beating our rivals, we are panicking and kicking hopeful balls up to one the league's best forwards, hoping he can do something on his own. We didn't beat Chelsea by booting it, we beat them by passing it on the floor and running at players, it's the way forward for me Edited April 2, 2014 by Tomaszk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DelboyVilla Posted April 2, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted April 2, 2014 I personally don't care what division Villa are in, I don't care who plays for us and I don't care who manages us. I have no delusions of grandeur, and to me, born in 1982, our European Cup win is about as relevent as 1966 and all that. We are not an especially big club, we are not a key player in the League or in Europe. We have no right to be. I find the arguement that we are the "7th most successful club in England" laughable when most of those titles were won before most homes had running water, indoor toilets and electricity. What I do care about is: a) Effort - that the players are killing themselves everyweek to achieve the best results possible. b ) Entertainment - I'd rather watch decent exciting attacking football than the current "Homer Simpson" approach. The club should have an identity and ethos that "this is the way do things" and that has been lacking for years The trouble for me is Lambert is failing on both of those objectives for me. The football is dire and not everyone appears to be putting the effort in. I accept that may be as a result of Lambert not having the ££ to fully develop his vision but if thats the case, he should be investing what funds he does have far more carefully than he is at present. I am old enough to have seen us win everything except the FA Cup but you're right none of that makes us a big club. We've never had the glamour of Manure or Liverpool and their national/international appeal and don't imagine we ever will. What we used to have was a strong regional following and when I was at school in Erdington most of my class were Villa with a couple of Noses and the odd one or two glory hunters. Today is totally different, in my 12 year old son's class in inner city Brum he is the ONLY Villa fan, the rest are Manure, Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool (none are Man City as far as I know yet). This is horrifying in my eyes. We have been ever presents in the Premier League years and we are the only ones in the bottom half of the table. Of the 7 ever presents (including us) all the others are in the top 7 sides in the league all of them are challenging for the title/CL/Europa places all except us. We are the only ones to have not qualified for the Champions League. This shows how badly we have been run in my eyes by BOTH our last two owners. So when people ask should we be expecting top 8 finishes, then why not, we have been in the top flight all through it's most wealthy period in the history of football. We should be a stable wealthy club earning top money from sponsorship and commercial partnerships we should not be looking to buy sylla's of this world because they want the minimum wage? Have we missed the boat, probably. Lambert is not good enough for a side as successful as us simple as but he seems to fit right in with the incompetents we have as owners. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Great post^^. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Delboy your post on should we be a top 8 club is correct if things in the past were right then yes we should have been but we developed too late commercially, and now we have the same revenue roughly as the vast majority of clubs in the league so going back 15 years yea your point is completely valid (and we were finishing in those places) but now with the vast amount of revenue coming from TV rights which is split between all the clubs equally that doesn't apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted April 2, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted April 2, 2014 Yeah, definitely a good post, we missed the boat a few times with deadly in charge for me, especially not investing to maintain our level when we finished second way back in teh first year of the prem. Lambert and Lerner though can't be blamed for where we were. Lerner can be blamed for MON's tenure and the hangover we aren't quite out of yet. Personally I don't see why Lambert can't be the man to help get us up the table and into a position where we can start to fulfill our potential. With FFP and our size, you would think we should be able to get ourselves in a league position that matches our income (top 8 i'd guess). IF we can acheive that under Lerner and Lambert then we can start to talk about them being to blame for missing the boat again in not being able to take the next step. That's a long way down the road from where we are at now though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted April 2, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted April 2, 2014 This puts us 9th... http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/apr/18/premier-league-club-accounts-debt but it's from last year. anyway, if we're in that kind of position when everything on the pitch was falling to pieces, then if we performed in the table to match the revenue table then we'd be making a bit more i'd imagine. let's hope Lambert can take us there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I personally don't care what division Villa are in, I don't care who plays for us and I don't care who manages us. I have no delusions of grandeur, and to me, born in 1982, our European Cup win is about as relevent as 1966 and all that. We are not an especially big club, we are not a key player in the League or in Europe. We have no right to be. I find the arguement that we are the "7th most successful club in England" laughable when most of those titles were won before most homes had running water, indoor toilets and electricity. What I do care about is: a) Effort - that the players are killing themselves everyweek to achieve the best results possible. b ) Entertainment - I'd rather watch decent exciting attacking football than the current "Homer Simpson" approach. The club should have an identity and ethos that "this is the way do things" and that has been lacking for years The trouble for me is Lambert is failing on both of those objectives for me. The football is dire and not everyone appears to be putting the effort in. I accept that may be as a result of Lambert not having the ££ to fully develop his vision but if thats the case, he should be investing what funds he does have far more carefully than he is at present. I am old enough to have seen us win everything except the FA Cup but you're right none of that makes us a big club. We've never had the glamour of Manure or Liverpool and their national/international appeal and don't imagine we ever will. What we used to have was a strong regional following and when I was at school in Erdington most of my class were Villa with a couple of Noses and the odd one or two glory hunters. Today is totally different, in my 12 year old son's class in inner city Brum he is the ONLY Villa fan, the rest are Manure, Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool (none are Man City as far as I know yet). This is horrifying in my eyes. We have been ever presents in the Premier League years and we are the only ones in the bottom half of the table. Of the 7 ever presents (including us) all the others are in the top 7 sides in the league all of them are challenging for the title/CL/Europa places all except us. We are the only ones to have not qualified for the Champions League. This shows how badly we have been run in my eyes by BOTH our last two owners. So when people ask should we be expecting top 8 finishes, then why not, we have been in the top flight all through it's most wealthy period in the history of football. We should be a stable wealthy club earning top money from sponsorship and commercial partnerships we should not be looking to buy sylla's of this world because they want the minimum wage? Have we missed the boat, probably. Lambert is not good enough for a side as successful as us simple as but he seems to fit right in with the incompetents we have as owners. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Yeah, definitely a good post, we missed the boat a few times with deadly in charge for me, especially not investing to maintain our level when we finished second way back in teh first year of the prem. Lambert and Lerner though can't be blamed for where we were. Lerner can be blamed for MON's tenure and the hangover we aren't quite out of yet. Personally I don't see why Lambert can't be the man to help get us up the table and into a position where we can start to fulfill our potential. With FFP and our size, you would think we should be able to get ourselves in a league position that matches our income (top 8 i'd guess). IF we can acheive that under Lerner and Lambert then we can start to talk about them being to blame for missing the boat again in not being able to take the next step. That's a long way down the road from where we are at now though. I agree with you RV, I can understand why fans are frustrated about our current position as a club. It is disappointing when you see a similar club like Everton competing for a Champions League place. I want us to be the underdogs - chasing the big boys down and being competitive for trophies/European football each season. By building the team up season by season, Lambert & Lerner can get us back into the top eight and make us significant again. Hopefully our time will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Yeah, definitely a good post, we missed the boat a few times with deadly in charge for me, especially not investing to maintain our level when we finished second way back in teh first year of the prem. Lambert and Lerner though can't be blamed for where we were. Lerner can be blamed for MON's tenure and the hangover we aren't quite out of yet. Personally I don't see why Lambert can't be the man to help get us up the table and into a position where we can start to fulfill our potential. With FFP and our size, you would think we should be able to get ourselves in a league position that matches our income (top 8 i'd guess). IF we can acheive that under Lerner and Lambert then we can start to talk about them being to blame for missing the boat again in not being able to take the next step. That's a long way down the road from where we are at now though. I agree with you RV, I can understand why fans are frustrated about our current position as a club. It is disappointing when you see a similar club like Everton competing for a Champions League place. I want us to be the underdogs - chasing the big boys down and being competitive for trophies/European football each season. By building the team up season by season, Lambert & Lerner can get us back into the top eight and make us significant again. Hopefully our time will come. Im not sure Lambert is capable of getting anybody in the top 8. He is very limited in terms of style of play and tactics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) Yeah, definitely a good post, we missed the boat a few times with deadly in charge for me, especially not investing to maintain our level when we finished second way back in teh first year of the prem. Lambert and Lerner though can't be blamed for where we were. Lerner can be blamed for MON's tenure and the hangover we aren't quite out of yet. Personally I don't see why Lambert can't be the man to help get us up the table and into a position where we can start to fulfill our potential. With FFP and our size, you would think we should be able to get ourselves in a league position that matches our income (top 8 i'd guess). IF we can acheive that under Lerner and Lambert then we can start to talk about them being to blame for missing the boat again in not being able to take the next step. That's a long way down the road from where we are at now though. I agree with you RV, I can understand why fans are frustrated about our current position as a club. It is disappointing when you see a similar club like Everton competing for a Champions League place. I want us to be the underdogs - chasing the big boys down and being competitive for trophies/European football each season. By building the team up season by season, Lambert & Lerner can get us back into the top eight and make us significant again. Hopefully our time will come. Im not sure Lambert is capable of getting anybody in the top 8. He is very limited in terms of style of play and tactics Yet people complain about him tinkering with tactics on a regular basis, but now Lambert is limited tactically? The only thing at the club that is limited is the transfer funding, it is far from good enough. Be patient, success will come my friend. Edited April 2, 2014 by GENTLEMAN 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Yes, but it makes you sound clever if you say the manager's tactics aren't good, and you can't be proved wrong. It's a win-win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) Yes, but it makes you sound clever if you say the manager's tactics aren't good, and you can't be proved wrong. It's a win-win. It is completely untrue though Crackpot. I suppose when people talk nonsense about Lambert's management, it proves there are no good reasons to sack Lambo. Edited April 2, 2014 by GENTLEMAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Well, it's inevitable that people are going to criticise the manager. Whenever anyone does anything there are people standing around telling everyone else where the person doing the thing has done it wrong. The only way a football manager can be above criticism is to win every game, and that's pretty hard when you're dealt the hand Lambert's been dealt. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Exactly that. And playing the devil's advocate for a minute, not being able to prove conclusively what would or would not have happened shouldn't make them above criticism. That's what these discussions are for - assumption, supposition, presumption. We should just always know that nothing we say in relation to these items can ever be proven. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Hey, common sense is not allowed on these boards. Take your realism and mature perspective somewhere else. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Yes, but it makes you sound clever if you say the manager's tactics aren't good, and you can't be proved wrong. It's a win-win. Isn't it exactly the same if you just keep asserting that the manager will get things right if we just give him time? That can't be proved wrong either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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