Game of Thrones (Spoilers)

[hogso]

It's a good point actually, and pretty much what the whole thing is about - everybody is evil. So it probably wasn't a great choice of words.

They are pwopa norty though.

[BG_Villa_Fan]

1 hour ago, hogso said:

Turning babies into mindless zombies is pretty evil tbqf.

He's shown turning babies into WWs, who as far as we know, are not mindless zombies at all, but beautiful creatures with their own culture and language, just misunderstood, according to their creator. Is this a bad thing? Don't see why. Craster's babies had 2 fates - being his wives or being WWs. I know which one I'd choose. 

1 hour ago, hogso said:

But to answer your question more specifically, we know they rose up and ravaged Westeros in the past, it took the near extinction of the Children of the Forest (having been created by them in the first instance to fight The First Men) and the raising of The Wall to stop them. Here is the ever reliable Old Nan's tale of that time;

We don't know why they ravaged and what their end game was and we're told a million times these tales shouldn't be taken literally. Nobody hates Caesar's descendants because of him being a conqueror 2 thousand years ago and we're talking 8 thousand years in this particular story. Also, Night King from the film is different from Night's King from the books, so they might have taken the easy route of presenting him as an evil antagonist because reasons. 

[Wainy316]

1 hour ago, hogso said:

The Night King (the original White Walker, the one with all the power whom we saw being murdered by the Children of the Forest) awoke at first with untold power, and after initially working for his masters, he created an army to overthrow them, and then attempted to take the whole contininent, destroying everything in his path, as he resents all life. He got kicked back up north, The Wall rose, so he and the remaining Others had to bide their time to regain their strength and power to a high enough level to take down The Wall and attempt another invasion. That time is just about here. As I alluded to in an earlier post, even the God's are worried about them and are pulling strings to try and stop their advance, furthermore I believe their killing of the last of the Children of the Forest to be massively significant, as it may have severely weakened the magicks holding up The Wall.

According to the story (I think by Old Nan and retold by Bran) the Night King is a former Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.

[hogso]

Yeah, it's somewhat confusing, but I'm just referring to the TV show here - which has applied the name 'Night King' to a character who may or may not be 'The Night's King', whom was a Lord Commander. Basically for TV he is the boss White Walker so needed a cool name, right.

I can't remember exactly what was going on in that scene when the Children of the Forest used dragonglass to create the first White Walker, but I don't believe there was any suggestion that man was Lord Commander. As such, I'd say we're supposed to think that the first White Walker who was created is The Night King.

In the books the story goes that the Lord Commander discovers a female Other, falls in love, and then they're the Night's King & Queen, right? Don't think we've seen a female White Walker yet, so I assume that backstory has been disregarded, unless we see it via further Bran-o-Vision.

44 minutes ago, BG_Villa_Fan said:

He's shown turning babies into WWs, who as far as we know, are not mindless zombies at all, but beautiful creatures with their own culture and language, just misunderstood, according to their creator. Is this a bad thing? Don't see why. Craster's babies had 2 fates - being his wives or being WWs. I know which one I'd choose. 

We don't know why they ravaged and what their end game was and we're told a million times these tales shouldn't be taken literally. Nobody hates Caesar's descendants because of him being a conqueror 2 thousand years ago and we're talking 8 thousand years in this particular story. Also, Night King from the film is different from Night's King from the books, so they might have taken the easy route of presenting him as an evil antagonist because reasons. 

White Walkers have definitely not been depicted as 'beautiful creatures'! Based just on what's been on TV they seem intent on the destruction of the living, nothing more, nothing less.

And it is said that they are merely tales to frighten children, true, but I think there is a strong case for everything that Old Nan said being completely true.

If the show were to eventually present them as having their own culture and being misunderstood, though, I wouldn't be too upset with that (although that's kind of already been done with the Wildlings), it would further blur the lines between who/what is good and bad which as I say is the overriding theme of the show for me. In response to the original thought, though, yes I firmly believe the NIght King and his White Walker horde will fill the antagonistic gap left by the Boltons. I fact I don't believe it, I know it.

[Wainy316]

9 minutes ago, hogso said:

Yeah, it's somewhat confusing, but I'm just referring to the TV show here - which has applied the name 'Night King' to a character who may or may not be 'The Night's King', whom was a Lord Commander. Basically for TV he is the boss White Walker so needed a cool name, right.

I can't remember exactly what was going on in that scene when the Children of the Forest used dragonglass to create the first White Walker, but I don't believe there was any suggestion that man was Lord Commander. As such, I'd say we're supposed to think that the first White Walker who was created is The Night King.

In the books the story goes that the Lord Commander discovers a female Other, falls in love, and then they're the Night's King & Queen, right? Don't think we've seen a female White Walker yet, so I assume that backstory has been disregarded, unless we see it via further Bran-o-Vision.

Yeah fair point.   I'm starting to just see the TV show as an entirely different canon now.

I do think without the source material the show has become far too 'Hollywood' and predictable, based around viewer satisfaction rather than the grim hopelessness of the earlier series.  Part of what gave it the huge shock value and made it so popular/different in the first place.

[Stevo985]

8 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

Yeah fair point.   I'm starting to just see the TV show as an entirely different canon now.

I do think without the source material the show has become far too 'Hollywood' and predictable, based around viewer satisfaction rather than the grim hopelessness of the earlier series.  Part of what gave it the huge shock value and made it so popular/different in the first place.

That's kind of why I was thinking Jon Snow was going to die (again) in this episode.

Yeah I know people don't want him to die. And yeah I know there's a lot more to do with his character.

But this is Game of Thrones. None of that matters. Everyone dies.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Just now, Stevo985 said:

But this is Game of Thrones. None of that matters. Everyone that isn't integral to the endgame dies.

[sexbelowsound]

First episode I've re-watched so far this season.

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, CarewsEyebrowDesigner said:

Whilst that's obviously true, how many people have died in the past that we'd all have assumed were "integral to the endgame", or at least integral to more of the story.

 

It does seem to have taken a bit of a shift to certain characters not dying. I guess that was inevitable eventually.

I guess I'm just sadistically craving another Red Wedding style moment. Not in terms of massacre. just in terms of the impact of certain characters snuffing it.

I've never felt that way about a TV show episode before, apart from maybe Ozymandias

[Meath_Villan]

The only thing missing from the episode was a nice pair of juggs .........on the whitewalkers if it was the magic of the tree people who created them, the same guys who did the wall ...sure when the wall crumbles due to the magic disappearing would the white walkers not also go ? 

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I think we'll see a lot of big characters bow out next season, especially in King's Landing and among Dany's entourage as she battles her way across the sea (against Euron) and into Westeros.

Next week will be pretty bloody too I think... or should I say fiery.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2016 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner

[hogso]

21 minutes ago, Meath_Villan said:

on the whitewalkers if it was the magic of the tree people who created them, the same guys who did the wall ...sure when the wall crumbles due to the magic disappearing would the white walkers not also go ? 

I don't believe so, the White Walkers have their own magicks now and are self sufficient, it appears. It's also guess work on my part, not based on anything but my own musings. It just makes sense to me that if the creators of the Wall are gone (is it also siginificant that according to legend the Giants helped raise the Wall too, and the last of them has seemingly died as well?), then it is going to become...unstable. It won't just fall, but it'll be weaker and may allow the White Walkers to pass through. Even if the thing is still standing, the magic that prevents them from passing through may be gone. They only have to physically walk under it or climb over it to 'conquer' the Wall, I suppose.

I hope the season ends with the Night's Watch getting their bums kicked, the White Walker horde advancing in to the North.

On another subject entirely, when Dany and her fleet make for Westeros, they will probably arrive on the South East coast of Dorne. With the White Walkers advancing from the extreme North of the continent, could we see the inevitable showdown of Ice & Fire in the Midlands - King's Landing, to be precise?

Edited June 22, 2016 by hogso

[Davkaus]

I think Bran will cause the collapse of the wall by passing through it with the Night King's mark on him, in the same way that he compromised the protection of the Three Eyed Raven's tree house.

It'll be rather fitting that one Bran built the wall, another one will tear it down.

[BG_Villa_Fan]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

 

I guess I'm just sadistically craving another Red Wedding style moment. Not in terms of massacre. just in terms of the impact of certain characters snuffing it.

I think you'll be very happy with episode 10  

[ender4]

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

It'll be rather fitting that one Bran built the wall, another one will tear it down.

Its the same Bran isn't it?   he built the wall in the past as part of his time-travelling adventures?

Edited June 22, 2016 by ender4

[PieFacE]

3 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Its the same Bran isn't it?   he built the wall in the past as part of his time-travelling adventures?

That's where I thought they were going to go with it. 

[Brumerican]

Thought Bran could only view the past or communicate with it slightly?  He'd be shit on the tools with those legs.

[PieFacE]

5 minutes ago, Brumerican said:

Thought Bran could only view the past or communicate with it slightly?  He'd be shit on the tools with those legs.

He's stood up when he time travels....  

And who knows the extent of what he can do when he travels....  He can communicate with people, get touched by White Walkers, I think they can go anywhere with it really... 

Edited June 22, 2016 by PieFacE

[Brumerican]

Just now, PieFacE said:

He's stood up when he time travels....  

But he can't physically interact with anything . Might be able to swing a supervisor role, at best .

 

[PieFacE]

5 minutes ago, Brumerican said:

But he can't physically interact with anything . Might be able to swing a supervisor role, at best .

 

We don't actually know that though, do we? We know a White Walker managed to touch him, so some physical presence must be there. Or maybe he will be a voice that instructs people to build the wall, like a God.