chrisp65 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 take your pick really, but I guess I meant 'the west' as in USA and it's representative in europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Will it split? like Sudan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) Will it split? like Sudan? Don't think so, most of the former thief/President's supporters appear to be old ex. Soviet types. Interesting that the US, Germany and now France have all come out basically warning off Russia from getting involved militarily, clearly the grown ups think there is a credible threat that they might think about it. What some in the west don't get is the extent to which Russia views Ukraine as a physical buffer state protecting the homeland against potential European aggression. A ludicrous thought when viewed from the west, but prudence built on tough experience from Moscow's perspective. Edited February 23, 2014 by Awol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 This will get messy. No way will Putin / Moscow back away easily from this "threat" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 They'll turn off the gas again, just to see how much the Ukraine likes western Europe when they are cold and unable to cook. Map of where gas lines go: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 A map of the main arteries to Chelsea's transfer budgets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Interesting to see what happens with Crimea. US/EU would love to take that off the Russians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villarule123 Posted February 23, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2014 Some horrific footage on Liveleak of the snipers picking off unarmed civilians one by one. What could make people want to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Interesting to see what happens with Crimea. US/EU would love to take that off the Russians. That is one of the most critical points from the Russian point of view and any long term deal would likely see Russia retain a sovereign naval base in Crimea. Radio 4 is reporting Russian language stations in Ukraine are pumping out a narrative that the protesters in Kiev are Nazis and 'the fascists are coming to kill you'. WW2 buffs will understand how emotive that is to the psyche of Russians - of which there are many in the east of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Interesting to see what happens with Crimea. US/EU would love to take that off the Russians. That is one of the most critical points from the Russian point of view and any long term deal would likely see Russia retain a sovereign naval base in Crimea. Radio 4 is reporting Russian language stations in Ukraine are pumping out a narrative that the protesters in Kiev are Nazis and 'the fascists are coming to kill you'. WW2 buffs will understand how emotive that is to the psyche of Russians - of which there are many in the east of the country. It is however true that nazis and antisemites are among those taking part, and perhaps a significant element. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) If Ukraine plays its hand well it could set itself up as an intermediary between Russia and the EU. By virtue its location and background it could successfully trade with both huge states and do very nicely out of it. At the moment though it is being presented as a tug of war between the two and might be pulled apart further. Edited February 24, 2014 by LondonLax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Hm, strong words from Russia, as expected. Focus on danger posed to ethnic Russians, which is understandable as a great deal of Ukrainians speak Russian as a first language, and a good deal more consider themselves Russian. Choices seem a bit limited for Putin, though, as I think/hope he'll refrain from sending the tanks in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) No chance he sends any armed forces in there after his quick capitulation last week. Edited February 24, 2014 by maqroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Avenue Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I think we will see a lynch mob in action this week to sort the former president out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 In accordance with an order from the president of the Russian Federation, forces of the Western Military District were put on alert at 1400 (1000 GMT) today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I think I read the new "leadership" has banned any foreign or ethnic languages in the country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Kiev got utterly bummed in world war two. Not to mention the atrocities committed before the war and after the war. In fact there aren't many populations that have suffered like the Ukrainians have over the last 100 years. Yet Holodomor hardly gets a mention (even comes up as a spelling error in Firefox!) My thoughts exactly. I can't understand how a Ukrainian could have any affection for Russia. Ethnic division seems likely to be the answer. The history of Russia has been mostly about their struggle with their identity and whether they belong to the east or west. Peter the Great took Russia a few steps to the west and they don't seem to have moved much since. It seems that Russia still clings to the idea that they need buffer-states to protect them from Western imperialism, no doubt shared by the ethnic Russians in Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) I think I read the new "leadership" has banned any foreign or ethnic languages in the country Not quite. Russia was the official second language of Ukraine, and they put an end to that. Russian isn't banned, as such. It just highlights the nationalism that has taken over protests about legitimate concerns for better government and made this movement about establishing a new Ukrainian Ukraine. Such movements usually start with a few innocuous pieces of legislation and wind up with calls for 'ethnic purity'. Edited February 26, 2014 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I think I read the new "leadership" has banned any foreign or ethnic languages in the country Not quite. Russia was the official second language of Ukraine, and they put an end to that. Russian isn't banned, as such. It just highlights the nationalism that has taken over protests about legitimate concerns for better government and made this movement about establishing a new Ukrainian Ukraine. Such movements usually start with a few innocuous pieces of legislation and wind up with calls for 'ethnic purity'. Reading elsewhere that more Russian forces are already being deployed to the Crimea and talk of the region breaking away from Ukraine proper... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 There were pro-Russian protests in Crimea over the weekend, and it is essentially Russian territory, so I wouldn't be surprised if that happened. I can't see what the West can do if Russia decide to step in and take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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