TrentVilla Posted April 9, 2014 Moderator Share Posted April 9, 2014 I think there is a difference between the average long ball manager and the way Pullis had Stoke City playing that was on whole different level to anything I've seen the likes of Allardyce or O'neill serve up. I completely agree. But football is and always will be a results business, so given a pick between Pulis and Poyet I'd go for the one who has demonstrated he can take over a mess and keep the side up by winning games over the one that can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I remember the Bolton side with Ivan campo in that was as bad as stoke under pulis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Eh I don't know, the issue with pulis and allardyce (minus pulis at Bolton and somewhat big Sam at rovers) is that their transfer policy is so limited that they can leave a MON type situation when they leave. I remember last year hearing how stoke had no squad player under 24 before butland and arrived. They're both very good short term fixes, or if you had a director of football for transfers (as palace sort of have) but otherwise they'll leave the club in questionable shape. I'm not sure how many clubs Allardyce has left in questionable shape. His record is excellent, and generally clubs such as Bolton and Blackburn have gone downhill when he leaves because they employ someone with nothing like his ability (eg Sammy Lee, Gary Megson, Steve Kean). He joined Bolton when they were in the Championship, and left them after four consecutive top 10 PL finishes. I think most clubs would take that kind of "questionable shape"! As for Pulis (who was never at Bolton)... took over Stoke as a poor championship side, left them as an established Premier League side, and even Mark Hughes hasn't been able to bugger up all his good work. Again, I can't see how short-term fix or a questionable shape applies to Stoke, and certainly not in comparison to the likes of Sunderland, Cardiff and Fulham. Pulis spent a ton of money at stoke. An absolutely amazing sum of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I think there is a difference between the average long ball manager and the way Pullis had Stoke City playing that was on whole different level to anything I've seen the likes of Allardyce or O'neill serve up. I completely agree. But football is and always will be a results business, so given a pick between Pulis and Poyet I'd go for the one who has demonstrated he can take over a mess and keep the side up by winning games over the one that can't. If your talking of a team in a mess who desperatley need points for survival then I think Pullis would be the better option for the short-term and I bet The Sunderland board wish they offered him the job now instead of Poyet. What I meant was if Lambert was to leave in the summer then I'd rather Poyet as I think he'd be able to build better for the future than Pullis. At Sunderland he inherited a really bad situation, there's been talk of a drinking culture within the dressing room and certain players were reported to have have gotten Di Canio the sack after to complaining to the board maybe they had their reasons Di Canio can seem andifficult person to work with but it doesn't really reflect well on their attitudes. I think in the summer when they can get rid of a lot of their players and Poyet can build his own team then he can be judged better who knows maybe this time next year Palace and Sunderland could be swapping places. Having said all that I hope Poyet proves me wrong and fails at least whilst at Sunderland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Exactly I will never forget how naive Poyet was against us, Gabby just nicking the ball off Cattermole as they tried to play from the back. 'Too much Cattermole' has been a real feature of their season. For the avoidance of any doubt, any Cattermole is too much Cattermole. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Cattermole has nothing to his game. Fouling a lot does not make you a good defensive midfielder. It's no wonder they've struggled for years with him as a midfield regular, he makes some of our lot look like Xavi and Iniesta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Not that many sides go down second season, far more go down the first year. Off the top of my head in recent years QPR, Hull, Reading and Ipswich have all gone down after reasonably good first years in the league. I do really think Lambert would've been found out in the second year at Norwich so I reckon that's part of the reason he wanted to come to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 For some strange reason Poyet has been playing Cattermole further up the pitch, Sunderland fans seem to think it's because they're trying to get him as far away from their goal as possible due to some costly mistakes he made (including against us). But surely his only position if any should be in front of the back four. It says something for some of their other midfielders (Vaughn, Gardner) if they can't get ahead of Cattermole in attacking areas of pitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Not that many sides go down second season, far more go down the first year. Off the top of my head in recent years QPR, Hull, Reading and Ipswich have all gone down after reasonably good first years in the league. I do really think Lambert would've been found out in the second year at Norwich so I reckon that's part of the reason he wanted to come to us. Qpr stayed up on the last day because Bolton couldn't beat stoke, so I don't know if that's reasonably good. But anyway, I posted the data about that on the previous page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 That's true but they are examples. Am I the only one who actually thinks Palace are nowhere near as bad to watch as Pulis's Stoke team generally were? Of course the philosophy of getting the ball forward quickly remains (as we did under MON) but there's a difference between that and what Stoke were in their first year in the prem when it seemed like they scored 70% of goals from long throws. What helps Pulis is he has two good wingers like Bolaise and Puncheon which improves the football as his Stoke team were best when Etherington and Pennant were on top form, again it's not dissimilar to what MON did here. In terms of the worst teams to watch in the prem, I thought Blackburn for 6 months under Big Sam were hideous to watch, think it might've been 09/10 when they were playing Chris Samba up top for 6 games and literally just booted the ball up to him for 90 minutes, infact whenever they'd get a free kick on the halfway line Robinson would take it. And how can we forget any premier league team with the misfortune to be managed by on Alex McLeish?! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 For some strange reason Poyet has been playing Cattermole further up the pitch, Sunderland fans seem to think it's because they're trying to get him as far away from their goal as possible due to some costly mistakes he made (including against us). But surely his only position if any should be in front of the back four. It says something for some of their other midfielders (Vaughn, Gardner) if they can't get ahead of Cattermole in attacking areas of pitch He's playing Cattermole to execute the high press. High press is where you get your forward players to run around a lot tackling defenders. Think Rodriguez and his tackle goals. Cattermole is a high stamina, tackler not a natural forward player which shows Poyet doesn't think there are many tackle goals among his forward players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 13, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted April 13, 2014 'tackle goals' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) Villa chris, you are spot on about palace being more entertaining. Pulis is more about quick transitions than necessarily going long, and since his palace side has lots of pace but not a big target man, they play direct but on the ground. I love to watch it. By the way, that robinson taking free kicks on the half way line persisted for far longer than a few months under big Sam. For an example, see the penalty rovers won vs united (it was the backup bunn in goal, but same thing) in that insane 3-2 win at old Trafford. Edited April 13, 2014 by Rovers13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frzvNow9bQQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 What he inherited was pretty much the ingredients of a standard Pulis team....two quick wide players in Bolaise and Puncheon and physical, combative central midfielders like Jedinak and Dikaochoi which is similar to what he had at Stoke with N'zonzi and Whelan. Where he's done amazing is getting the back 4 in shape as it's nowhere near the level of what he had at Stoke. Mental to think Palace have I think the 5th best defence in the premier league now and have conceded less than likes of Liverpool and Spurs! That's all down to him as Palace were conceding plenty at the start of the season under Holloway e.g. 4 at home to Fulham. The good thing about a pulis or Big Sam as manager here is we would actually get some home wins given the way they set teams up e.g. deep lying defences and keeping the game 0-0 for an hour. Think Pulis has won 7 out of 11 home games at Palace so I could live with that. But they don't really have a clue how to win away games given the limitation of the set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted April 13, 2014 Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 The difference is his strikers though, so he's had to chance how to get the ball forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I posted somewhere in here 'Palace' are gone. What a job Pulis has done, absolutely outstanding. Sunderland and Cardiff are now gone I think. Hoping the shitness of Norwich (who we've done the double over) and Fulham (who have done the double over us) will keep us up by the skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Cattermole has nothing to his game. Fouling a lot does not make you a good defensive midfielder. It's no wonder they've struggled for years with him as a midfield regular, he makes some of our lot look like Xavi and Iniesta. His second touch is always a tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 If Cardiff beat Stoke this weekend, I think they'll go on to stay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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