What is your experience of mental health?

[Jon]

9 hours ago, MNVillan said:

Alcohol made my anxiety so much worse. I ended up in the ER multiple times thinking I was having a heart attack, when in reality it was a hangover-induced panic attack.

Correct. Alcohol really buggers me up with the anxiety and fear.  Plus the meds don't work as well with it. So heavy sessions have a really dark downside for a couple of days.  Light boozing isn't too bad.  

[T-Dog]

Cheers all - I've gotta renew my prescription the next couple of days so might see if I can get another appointment with the doc

[Anthony]

So, having being diagnosed with ADHD at age 54, in trying to understand what's what, I've been reading about other behaviours, many of which don't apply, but holy crap, this does! Pathological Demand Avoidance

Quote

Pathological Demand Avoidance is all-encompassing and has some unique aspects:

many everyday demands are avoided simply because they are demands. Some people explain that it’s the expectation (from someone else or yourself) which leads to a feeling of lack of control, then anxiety increases and panic can set in
in addition, there can be an ‘irrational quality’ to the avoidance – for instance, a seemingly dramatic reaction to a tiny request, or the feeling of hunger inexplicably stopping someone from being able to eat

Doesn't matter what the thing is, or whether I want to do it or not, as soon as I have to do it, the shutters come down.

[mjmooney]

22 minutes ago, Anthony said:

So, having being diagnosed with ADHD at age 54, in trying to understand what's what, I've been reading about other behaviours, many of which don't apply, but holy crap, this does! Pathological Demand Avoidance

Doesn't matter what the thing is, or whether I want to do it or not, as soon as I have to do it, the shutters come down.

Not sure if it counts as a disorder, but this plagued me all through my school, university and working life. I would do anything except the task I had been assigned to do. 

[Anthony]

1 minute ago, mjmooney said:

Not sure if it counts as a disorder, but this plagued me all through my school, university and working life. I would do anything except the task I had been assigned to do. 

I suppose the key is the 'Pathological' bit. Everyone does it to a certain extent, but if it's a plague on your life, then it's an issue. For me it started with school aged 5, when for writing practice we had to try to copy a printed letter A, B, C etc. I wanted to do it, but I just stared out the window, and this behaviour has continued throughout my entire life. Think writing essays in class, any kind of homework, uni, workplace, home life...

If you call it a disorder, it just means that there's a label for it, so coping mechanisms, support, advice etc. is easy to find.

[lapal_fan]

Hate the word disorder under this type of umbrella. 

There is no one single archetype of person.  There are more usual, or more common types of people, but to call something as small as "not wanting to do strictly what you've been instructed to do" isn't a disorder surely?

[mjmooney]

1 hour ago, lapal_fan said:

There is no one single archetype of person.  There are more usual, or more common types of people, but to call something as small as "not wanting to do strictly what you've been instructed to do" isn't a disorder surely?

It's tricky, because everybody is on some sort of 'spectrum'. The problem is defining when a particular behavioural characteristic stops being 'just one of those things' and becomes a serious problem. 

My elder daughter is a case in point. She's intelligent, socially well adjusted, a good mother, competent at work, and so on. But she's always been somewhat quiet and introspective. Lately, she's become obsessed with the idea that she may be mildly autistic. She actually had some tests done, and the answer was nope, not autistic, just not extroverted. She seemed almost disappointed, as if she wanted her personality justified by being defined as a condition. 

Or take the much misused term 'OCD'. Lots of us - me included - have little fixations about patterns, symmetry, 'correct' sequences, etc. We could really do with a word for this, because it isn't really obsessive compulsive disorder - which can be a real blight on the sufferer's life (as evidenced by testimonies in this very thread). 

Not all energetic kids have ADHD. But some do. The challenge is knowing when intervention is required, and when it's really not necessary (and may even be detrimental). 

Edited Thursday at 14:02 by mjmooney

[bielesibub]

43 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

It's tricky, because everybody is on some sort of 'spectrum'. The problem is defining when a particular behavioural characteristic stops being 'just one of those things' and becomes a serious problem. 

I found it very hard to write this post as I really struggled to not put some silly picture of a child playing Manic Miner on a ZX Spectrum, which highlights my fundamental behavioural disorder, I find it almost impossible to not use some sort of quip or joke in any context or situation. I even found it impossible to not make a joke during my own sisters funeral, ffs! I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have minded and would've laughed herself. I had the wife walk down the aisle to the Imperial March. Business meetings were impossible when all I could think about was what the best rude acronym would be. Once I start I honestly can't stop! I'm like a human can of Pringles. On a side note I used to enjoy counting fence panels while waiting for trains/buses. OCD?

[mjmooney]

3 minutes ago, bielesibub said:

I find it almost impossible to not use some sort of quip or joke in any context or situation. I even found it impossible to not make a joke during my own sisters funeral, ffs! 

That sounds like a variant of Tourette's Syndrome. 

[lapal_fan]

14 minutes ago, bielesibub said:

I found it very hard to write this post as I really struggled to not put some silly picture of a child playing Manic Miner on a ZX Spectrum, which highlights my fundamental behavioural disorder, I find it almost impossible to not use some sort of quip or joke in any context or situation. I even found it impossible to not make a joke during my own sisters funeral, ffs! I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have minded and would've laughed herself. I had the wife walk down the aisle to the Imperial March. Business meetings were impossible when all I could think about was what the best rude acronym would be. Once I start I honestly can't stop! I'm like a human can of Pringles. On a side note I used to enjoy counting fence panels while waiting for trains/buses. OCD?

No sir, you're just an idiot.

(jokes, I do the joking thing too but I quite enjoy it ) 

[bielesibub]

23 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

That sounds like a variant of Tourette's Syndrome. 

could f'ing well sh*tting be.

[bielesibub]

13 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

No sir, you're just an idiot.

(jokes, I do the joking thing too but I quite enjoy it ) 

Thank you, you've just elevated me.

[Anthony]

2 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

Hate the word disorder under this type of umbrella. 

There is no one single archetype of person.  There are more usual, or more common types of people, but to call something as small as "not wanting to do strictly what you've been instructed to do" isn't a disorder surely?

Hence the "Pathological" bit. You're right though that everyone has it to some extent. When it becomes extreme, to the point of ruining your life or those around you, then it's a disorder.

[NurembergVillan]

Here's my experience of mental health. Recorded it last month, went live yesterday...

 

[icouldtelltheworld]

21 hours ago, Anthony said:

So, having being diagnosed with ADHD at age 54, in trying to understand what's what, I've been reading about other behaviours, many of which don't apply, but holy crap, this does! Pathological Demand Avoidance

Doesn't matter what the thing is, or whether I want to do it or not, as soon as I have to do it, the shutters come down.

My son has a PDA profile of autism and has quite complex and extensive additional needs as a result. It's not so much about completing tasks, but more that all social interactions/activities/routines can start to feel like a demand for him, leading to some pretty spectacular meltdowns.

It's a complex condition, as he's basically the opposite of most autistic kids, who often crave routine and structure. As an example, we had a day out planned a few months ago that he'd been really excited about, but when we got there he had a meltdown because the expectation to take part in an activity (that he had wanted to do!) had started to feel like a demand that he was not in control of.

The demand avoidance is essentially trying to maintain constant control of what's going on around him, and he really struggles to empathise with other people/their emotions. Its anxiety-driven, so when he has a meltdown its essentially an extreme panic attack which leads to a flight/fight response - so he'll try to run off with no concept of whats around him or instictively start lashing out at whoever is around him. Hes nearly a teenager now and there are some signs of improvement, but he's still developmentally more like a 6 or 7 year old in a lot of ways and is generally happier in his own make believe world than paying any attention to what's actually around him.

I'm not sure if PDA exists on a spectrum in the same way as ASD more widely does, if so I'd imagine my son is a more extreme case. PDA children generally can't function in mainstream education (and in fact the statistics show that a majority of kids with PDA struggle to attend any form of education with regularity). My son managed about a year in mainstream school, but they couldn't cope with him as he would regularly destroy the classroom, throw chairs, bite other kids/teachers when he was having an anxiety-related meltdown.

It's a really complex condition that wasn't accepted as part of the autistic spectrum until fairly recently, so definitely wouldn't have been something picked up in your day! If any of the above sounds reminiscent of difficulties you had in school or socially as a child, it might be worth doing some more research

[Anthony]

1 hour ago, icouldtelltheworld said:

My son has a PDA profile of autism and has quite complex and extensive additional needs as a result. It's not so much about completing tasks, but more that all social interactions/activities/routines can start to feel like a demand for him, leading to some pretty spectacular meltdowns.

It's a complex condition, as he's basically the opposite of most autistic kids, who often crave routine and structure. As an example, we had a day out planned a few months ago that he'd been really excited about, but when we got there he had a meltdown because the expectation to take part in an activity (that he had wanted to do!) had started to feel like a demand that he was not in control of.

The demand avoidance is essentially trying to maintain constant control of what's going on around him, and he really struggles to empathise with other people/their emotions. Its anxiety-driven, so when he has a meltdown its essentially an extreme panic attack which leads to a flight/fight response - so he'll try to run off with no concept of whats around him or instictively start lashing out at whoever is around him. Hes nearly a teenager now and there are some signs of improvement, but he's still developmentally more like a 6 or 7 year old in a lot of ways and is generally happier in his own make believe world than paying any attention to what's actually around him.

I'm not sure if PDA exists on a spectrum in the same way as ASD more widely does, if so I'd imagine my son is a more extreme case. PDA children generally can't function in mainstream education (and in fact the statistics show that a majority of kids with PDA struggle to attend any form of education with regularity). My son managed about a year in mainstream school, but they couldn't cope with him as he would regularly destroy the classroom, throw chairs, bite other kids/teachers when he was having an anxiety-related meltdown.

It's a really complex condition that wasn't accepted as part of the autistic spectrum until fairly recently, so definitely wouldn't have been something picked up in your day! If any of the above sounds reminiscent of difficulties you had in school or socially as a child, it might be worth doing some more research

Wow, that's quite a struggle, for him and you. Mine was never that extreme, thankfully, but debilitating in a different way. I was never in trouble for things I did, just things I didn't do. It must be so hard for parents like you, and exhausting for everyone. From the small amount of reading I've done so far (only discovered it on Wednesday), all you can do is train yourself out of it. If your son is like me, he doesn't want to be naughty, he just can't help himself and probably feels awful afterwards.

[Anthony]

14 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

Here's my experience of mental health. Recorded it last month, went live yesterday...

 

I actually listened to all of that, hurrah for ADHD meds! It should be reassuring to everyone out there that we all have our struggles and nobody is the first person to go through whatever it is they're going through.

It was really, really hard for me to not write some 'amusing' pithy piece of wit in response. Top of the list was 'That's a challenging wank'.

[icouldtelltheworld]

34 minutes ago, Anthony said:

Wow, that's quite a struggle, for him and you. Mine was never that extreme, thankfully, but debilitating in a different way. I was never in trouble for things I did, just things I didn't do. It must be so hard for parents like you, and exhausting for everyone. From the small amount of reading I've done so far (only discovered it on Wednesday), all you can do is train yourself out of it. If your son is like me, he doesn't want to be naughty, he just can't help himself and probably feels awful afterwards.

The main thing is you learn to detect the triggers/early warning signs and stop problems escalating in the first place, he's generally more happy in himself these days, but I do worry about how he'll cope with puberty etc.

You're absolutely right on the final point - what you eventually learn is that if he's having a meltdown, it's often because you've done something wrong in the build up, not because he's acting up. It can be hard to stay calm and stick to your own rules when you're tired or stressed!

There's a guy named Harry Thompson who speaks about his experiences with PDA, and from memory aspects of his story tally with your experiences. He's got some videos on YouTube and has a written a book called the PDA Paradox which I found to be really helpful