Laivasse

There seems to be a concensus amongst those in the media and within the game that just because McLeish has a reputation for being respectful and is "a gentleman" then that alone should protect him from criticism. I couldn't care less if the guy is a genuine saint, I don't particularly care about a manager being a likable person, I'm far more concerned with one capable of doing his job. He can be the biggest word removed in history as long as he gets us results. Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho? All tossers of the highest order, very sore losers and disrespectful at times. But who really cares? The other thing that seems to protect McLeish is that officially, yes, he has won things. But SPL achievements are pretty much an irrelevance when it comes to translating that success to the Premier League. And the fact he won a minor trophy with the dogshit is seen as a real acheievment by some mainly due to their dire history and lack of silverware. Every dog has its day, even that lot and winning the league cup is all well and good but getting relegated the very same season surely takes the shine off things? Many within the game don't seem to see it that way. Blues getting relegated is hardly a shock as far as the media are concerned. If he takes us down, it will tarnish his career far, far more. Its unthinkable. McLeish is as old school as it gets. Pundits, ex-players etc love all that. Its an old boys club to them and its much easier to point the finger at us, the "fickle" fans for getting on his back. We're to blame, apparently, for the negative shite that has us sitting near the bottom of the league. Good post.

Since we're terrible to watch and we can't figure out how to score, how about sprinkling a little Chile on the team and experimenting with a 3-3-1-3. Given Cuellar Collins Baker Albrighton Herd Warnock Petrov Ireland Gabby N'ZogMaybe the confusion it causes our players would wake them from their stupor and they'd start performing. Who am I kidding, McLeish would figure out a way to make it boring.

We'd be in deep, deep shit right now, probably Wolves-level deep shit, if not for Gabby's early season form. I make it about 9 points he earnt for us with assists and goals up until November, mostly in games where he ran the show and we were otherwise poor.

Most places have us at 16/1 or 14/1 to go down atm, with Swansea on slightly shorter odds overall. As someone who backed Red Marauder and Silver Birch in their grand national wins, I don't take much comfort from these odds (they both came in at 33/1 ).

Bent's injury is a big blow but I honestly think if we could get Gabby firing again we wouldn't miss Bent that badly. The biggest problem is that for whatever reason, mentality or injury, I have my doubts that Gabby will start performing again any time soon, which is why we need Bent a lot. Still, really it's Gabby's performances for the first dozen or so games of the season which helped eke out points from bad showings, and it's Gabby's dip in form/absences which have coincided with our performances dropping down a grade to 'terrible'. An injured Bent might not be so bad, but without Gabby looking sharp it is so bad.

I thought I heard that our relegation odds had shortened after yesterday's games.

I think you've reached a faulty conclusion. Based on rumours from last season, I'm not at all convinced that the problem doesn't lie with the coaching. Last season when Dunne fell out with Houllier, the anecdotal account of events was that he was pissed off with being forced to become a spokesperson for player complaints/suggestions. Reportedly, this caused internal tensions because it undermined the captain, then on top of that the complaints were all dismissed anyway. Apparently among the players' concerns was the fact that coaching was inconsistent between the reserves side and the first team, which resulted in problems eg. defender confusion as to what marking system they were supposed to be using. That draws me to a couple of conclusions: [*:de842ff872]The fact that the reserves appear well coached means nothing and the first team coaching may indeed be shoddy.[*:de842ff872]The 'troublemakers' and cliques in our squad may in fact just be players who've said reasonable things which our managers haven't liked - sometimes even when it was their assigned responsibility to do so. So I lean towards the most simplistic and IMO likely explanation, which is that we've had two shitty managers in a row and the first team coaching is iffy. The talent remains in our squad for a decent manager to utilise.

The defence certainly did well without him today but I think today's showing was insignificant. Watching Wigan trying to figure out how to attack us was like watching some old silent comedy movie half the time. I'm still undecided as to whether Dunne's absence will hurt us over a longer run; he's probably our best CB when on form, but his form had been terrible before the injury.

I can see why you didn't like TW2. I liked it but at the same time I thought there was a lot of wasted potential. TW1 was a flawed game also but seemed to do a lot more right in terms of story and setting. TW2's gameplay is clunky, with an uneven difficulty curve and stupid set pieces like the Kayran. I found it immersive despite that, perhaps because I had bought into the story and the game world off the back of the first game.

Delighted with this 0-0 win. It was a tactical masterstroke to lull the premiership's bottom team into a false sense of security by allowing them to have the lion's share of possession, because it took them completely by surprise when we snuck in at the end and just about prevented them from scoring. In all seriousness, that was rubbish. So, so bad. How many times this season have we heard TV commentators being flabbergasted by the terrible quality of football in our matches? And their surprise at the anonymity of our talented players? Yet in the same breath they'll express sympathy for the 'prejudice' McLeish has had to face, having come from our rivals. It could make a sane fan weep, when it's so obvious who the problem is at our club. McLeish has faced 'prejudice' in the sense that he was 'pre-judged', but the judgement was based on his ability and it's turning out to have been entirely correct. Ireland not starting was absurd. Nzog not starting was absurd. Our negative, deep play against a team who couldn't score even if there was a black hole sucking balls into our net, was absurd. Our lack of attacking gameplan was absurd. Bringing on Heskey when we needed more in attack was absurd. Bringing on Ireland and Nzog so late, and Nzog coming on only because of Bent's injury ( we're in deep trouble), was absurd. The fact that I had to vote Collins MotM was absurd. We're living in an absurd world. Actually the fact that Hutton, Collins and Cuellar had good games was a small positive. I thought Collins had the best game of the three. One of his hoofs nearly even put Keane in 1-on-1. But let's face it, it's not hard to have a solid defensive game against a team who are so laughably bad in attack. And Wigan were SO bad. So the fact that our defensive players were the ones working hardest is just another massive negative. And they still managed to pepper our goal with shots. Just dismal. Get McLeish out.

We have sufficient quality. Some of it didn't start, some of it's out of position, some of it's inexperienced and needs guidance, the rest of it's demotivated, following negative tactics and shows every sign of being poorly coached.

Wigan are so bloody awful I'd be pissing my pants laughing at them if we weren't just as bad.

on the pitch, having come on before nzogbia Scroll up.

Oh yeah, just remembered. I even posted about it Just been driven insane by rage.

Unbelievable that it takes this much misfortune to bring on N'Zogbia, who should have started. And where the hell is Ireland. I'm disgusted.

I think the stretcher bearers all twisted their ankles on bobbles in the turf on the way onto the pitch.

Oooh, that looks like a bad twist on Bent's ankle. Could be real trouble here

Just in time for the 75th minute kick-off.

Heskey on for Albrighton. 0-0 win here we come.

word removed referee. Cuellar kicked the ball away because he thought he'd been awarded a foul for being shoved in the back. Gets booked because ref missed it. Di Santo, on the other hand, still hasn't got a card despite being a repulsive little shit all match and miming for a card for Cuellar. People wonder why players dive and simulate to exaggerate fouls, it's because referees are **** morons who bottle everything unless you make the decision for them.

Alternatively, wait for an actual reason to be positive and happy. Then it's more rewarding when it happens.

Honestly watching that I can see why Wigan are bottom. Zero ideas and apparently no talent in the final third. Which doesn't reflect well on our own first half showing.

If the mediocrity of these teams didn't already mean a bore draw was the most likely result, then the diabolical pitch is making sure of it.

We're lucky Wigan are so terrible at crossing since they're owning the ball in our third of the pitch.

Stupid that Ireland isn't starting.