Villa_Vids

2 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

And haven’t won a game since, what’s your point? I don’t want to nullify Leeds I want to beat them

Leeds have been stronger at Elland Road, that was my point.

Same. I want us to beat them too. Watkins' finishing was one of the reasons we didn't. Gerrard can't take the cop for players not doing their job when he has set up a system that requires them to be reliable and score. 

Just now, IrishVilla10 said:

The same strong Leeds team that got turned over 5-2 by Brentford the previous game? And got beat 2-1 today. Come on 

"Elland Road" The same team that smashed Chelsea?

9 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I said he’s doing that and continuing.  He has 17 points in the last 19 games, Luiz is looking to leave because he isn’t playing, our revenue was less last season because of where Gerrard ended us in the league so it is happening.  

Do you think any quality players are looking at us favourably to come in the January transfer window based on current performances and points total this season.

You say it’s pure fiction but it’s slowly happening as we speak.  Are we looking a positive place to come to for players? The media  talking about hard we are to watch the last two games!  You can deny all you want but it’s developing under our eyes.

We are just going around in circles. The core belief that we both share is we want Villa to progress, we both have different ideas on how that happens which I respect and appreciate.

There is a great pool of players available to us and many other clubs. If players don't want to come to Villa, it is their lost imo. I won't be crying over them.

As for the media. I don't take moral lessons from the media. Especially a sporting media that backs the Saudi takeover of Newcastle with great fanfare and without any moral quibbles. They are the greatest hypocrites. People like us are the only ones who care about the well being of Villa, disagreements or not.

1 minute ago, El Segundo said:

What a ridiculous statement.  That's pretty much what every successful club has done and will continue to do.  City sacked Mancini to get Pep in, and sacked Pellegrini before that and sacked Hughes before that.  Liverpool sacked Hodgson to get Klopp in.  West Ham sacked Pelegrini to get Moyes in,  Arsenal sacked Emery to get Arteta.  All improved with the new guys. If it hadn't, they would have sacked them until they found someone who could improve them.     

Watford? 

1 minute ago, foreveryoung said:

Yes I saw the improvement, watching Leeds and Southampton. 2 of the worse Villa games I've seen since the McLeish days. Southgate would be proud of his trying not to lose more than win game mentality.

If he's not already in survival mode, his tactics are worse than anyone realises.

Different interpretations. I saw us beat Southampton in a defensive manner (which detractors said Gerrard was unable to do weeks ago) and us nullify a strong Leeds team at Elland Road but failed to crush them in the 2nd half with our sloppy finishing in front of goal and against 10 men. Hardly the worst of performances I have seen during the past few years. Is it sustainable? No.  It is a start. A building block. Can we improve? Yes. I believe so. Gerrard's job depends on it.

3 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

What do we owe him? What has he done to prove he’s going to take us where we want to go? We’ve improved by something like 0.09 points per game and a 2% increase in win percent since he arrived. Now we’re hearing talk of going to a back 5, we need a break not Gerrard 

Nothing. I wouldn't say that our improvement under SG has been massive but I still believe we can improve under SG (which we have done in a short sequence of games since Arsenal). I am critical and demanding but not a fatalist that is the difference. Personally, I hope the club calmly look at the situation after Brighton.

8 minutes ago, Thug said:

I'm not even sure what the point you're trying to make is.

 

No one is asking Gerrard to sack himself?

 

He's hurting villa long term by being shit.  What's the point you're making here exactly?

My point is...give SG a break and cut him some slack. I know....I am asking too much.

2 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Shouldn’t been his choice, he should’ve gone.  I agree Gerrard just continues but it shouldn’t been a choice he had.

If we continue playing poor under Gerrard, our better players will want to leave at the end of the season, we also won’t be able to attract the next lot of Kamara’s and Carlos’ because why would they come to another season around the same position as last season.  We earn less revenue from lower league position so less transfer kitty, likely lower commercial deals after another poor league performance. Players Gerrard brought in getting older but on big wages but not performing so less room re FFP.  I can keep going with more long term issues…

a bad management decision(s) can hurt a club for for years beyond their tenure….

 

 

That hasn't happened. Pure fiction and catastrophizing at this moment. You have a great imagination, I will give you that.  

4 minutes ago, Thug said:

So why did they sack the previous guy? 

We're not 2 months in,  we're 12 months in.

We've gone backwards.

He's not shown any intelligence at all, and there aren't even any signs that things are improving.

We're now "back to basics" of long balls and "not lose at any cost" football.

The whole thing is a joke.

The experiment is a failure.

He needs to be sacked, and we need to move forward.

 

 

The previous guy was well backed too and had been in charge for three seasons, we had slumps under Deano too. Smith couldn't get a tune out of the team without Grealish. Fact. Had Smith turned a few of those defeats (in the 5 Losses) around last season he would have earnt more time too.

5 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I don’t think he’ll learn and grow so I’m voting for the new manager.

Three games isn’t turning around form going back to my point on my last comment.  

Also it’s only results somewhat but not performance.  The Man City game was great, a fantastic point.  Southampton was two very poor teams and we got the goal that took the three points, it certainly wasn’t because of how we played or a great created goal.  Leeds, we couldn’t beat a team of 10 men for half a game and a flapping keeper.  That is not turning the form around is it?  

Thankfully 5 points that was desperately needed but still only 8 points this season, which continues the end of last season run.  As I say Gerrard is doing enough to keep his job but hurting Villa medium/long term because a few points here and there, and then poor again…we are averaging less than a point for so long, what 19 games, 8 points from 8 games and then a few games and people arguing he’s turned it around.  It’s going to take a lot more to claim he’s turned it around imo but I get a few want to claim it after the last three games when arguably only one was a good performance, the City game.

Three games is a starting point, nothing more or less. What would you want SG to do? It is like a boxer being hit and knocked down in the first round but staying down because he has no hope or belief in the fight. This is a battle, Gerrard and the team can fight their way back. 

Gerrard isn't hurting Villa long term, his scope doesn't stretch that far. That is a crazy statement. If you said Purslow's decisions were hurting Villa medium/long term I would understand but you can't put that at Gerrard's door. Would you fully trust Purslow and Lange with the next appointment? I appreciate some of the good Purslow has done but I am questioning him now (along with Lange). I have lost some faith in them with regards to the footballing side.

Just now, Thug said:

Make up your mind, boss.

 

It is far more complex than simply sacking somebody and appointing a new guy.

1 minute ago, Thug said:

Ok.  We should keep him forever then.

 

No. 

We can't just sack our way to success. Not sustainable.

The media love them to bits. Very strange given who owns them. 

17 minutes ago, nick76 said:

No I said he’s doing enough to save his job.  He should beat Forest to be fair. My point though and I’m not a believer of going game by game as I’ve mentioned before, it’s about consistency over time and losing an individual game I never believe should make a difference to a managers job, it should be about performance over a material period.  

If he beats Forest and gets four points from the next six games is that enough to keep his job?  It seems roughly in line with his run rate for this season and even into the back end of last season.  If the performances continue to be “pragmatic” with those points? What is a building block(s) under him look like.  Gerrard seems to just get enough points that he’s not getting the sack but we still underperform.

Anyway I can’t judge a manager game by game in the bigger picture.  Obviously I can praise or criticise a manager about a result or performance but a sacking shouldn’t be based on one game or the pressure shouldn’t be more or less.  If he wins, he shouldn’t be under less pressure and if he loses results in more pressure.  For me it’s performances and results over a period of time, not one, two or three games because any team can be unlucky or lucky in a particular match plus it depends on the opposition.  Apparently we’ve had the third easiest fixture start of the season so we are going to start hit some bigger/harder teams/games and it’s worrying we’ve only got 8 points.  Gerrard has imo a banker of three points tomorrow so he needs to lock that away and plan for the next group of games.

Gerrard has turned the form around whether you like the style or not, that is a skill and requires players being behind the tactical changes. I agree we can beat a poor Forest team, we are capable but we need to be clinical in front of goal. Watkins can't be missing 1v1s on a weekly basis, we have an issue if so. Gerrard needs to address it too. That is fair. 

It boils down to whether people are willing to suffer in the short term,  allowing the manager to learn and grow from mistakes or go for another manager in the hope of us improving? 

22 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Based on current reality so while it’s not an outlook I want, it’s justified by his time here as our manager.  Sometimes things don’t work out and he’s just doing enough to be saved from the sack it seems to the board but in doing that it’s damaging Villa.  

I don’t think it’s currently possible to want the best for Villa and to believe that Gerrard is not hindering that.  I think supporting giving Gerrard more time is hindering Villa and that’s why I have the outlook I do.

Gerrard is far from safe and hasn't saved his job, which he openly admits himself. All Gerrard has done in recent times is to improve our form, nothing more or less. It is a building block. Lose or draw against Forest the pressure builds. 

5 minutes ago, AVTuco said:

No. Losing Jack set us back years. We were a one man team with him, now we don't have that one man any more.

And we are in the process of assembling a team. 

4 minutes ago, a m ole said:

I mean be fair, he is literally saying they’re not going to another game, they are staying home…

On the other point, I could say if you’re not upset by the complete lack of progress, the terrible football and concerned about the future of the club because you want to root for Gerrard then you’re against the club.

Football is subjective so I don't agree with that. Not the same imo as threatening your support - I think that is low. If you are lucky enough to have a season ticket then that is wrong to publicly use your support as a threat. Maybe I am wrong but it is a spoilt brat mentality imo. 

23 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I support my team, I don’t support Gerrard, there is a difference.

Why should I not go because I don’t think he’s good enough, if I give up my season ticket I lose my time with the team, a fan of over 45 years.  Who knows when I will be able to go regularly again because of waiting lists when we fire Gerrard and a decent manager comes in.  It’s the fans club not Gerrard’s, I’ll be a Villa fan long after he’s gone.  If fans aren’t happy they should let it be known.

And that is a bad outlook imo. 

2 minutes ago, a m ole said:

Fans can complain about how our club is being managed on message boards and still support the team at Villa Park.

In fact, these people are far more behind the players than they are people who are backing the manager.

Of course they can. My point is people on here saying - "I am not going to another game until Gerrard is gone" "I have only been to this game...not going back" and the like. That is crap support imo. Just don't go! Actions speak louder than words. 

I am behind everybody at the club. Gerrard failure is Aston Villa's failure. If you are not rooting for Gerrard making us better then you are against Villa imo. All for one and one for all. 

4 minutes ago, viivvaa66 said:

When most people start out in a new job, it is at a level that match your education and experience. You don’t go from managing the local corner shop to becoming the managing director of Tesco.

Admitting that he made mistake after everybody can see his action resulted in a disaster, is not the same as knowing what he did wrong and how to rectify the mistakes and getting better results going forward. We all know there is an issue in midfield, but he doesn’t make any changes that resolve the issue, but continue with the same players in the same formation. How long should we give him to figure it out? Until we are relegated?

We know Luiz doesn’t believe in him, and refuses to sign a new contract. I’m guessing other player are in the same boat, the will run down their contract and leave for free, but putting in a good enough performance that they have options when they leave. I’m pretty sure Mings isn’t eager to extend his contract. Gerrard would cost us dearly and need to be replaced as soon as possible.

That is fair in some respects. You can fairly question Gerrard's experience and ability level but doesn't mean he can't or won't get better. I am not going to hammer Gerrard for being honest about his mistakes, should he be? Probably not. 

Luiz doesn't believe in Aston Villa if he is not signing a deal imo. So you believe if Gerrard is sacked then Dougie will sign a new deal? I don't think so. Mings has improved since the captaincy has been taken off him imo, I think Gerrard has managed that situation well overall, although I will be lying to say I wasn't concerned at the start. Some of the fan theories on here about Mings and Gerrard .... Pure fantasy IMO.

6 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

Smith didn't rely on Emi during pre-season either - injuries or not, Smith didn't play to his strengths either. He often played on the left, a 10, but not as often as he had success on the right. Yes, the club was always going to sign him, but I don't think either manager has played to his strengths as consistently.

My point was relating to Ings. It is likely Purslow brought the proposal to Smith about Ings being available. If Smith is not standing his ground then it is on him. I think 70 pc of clubs take Danny Ings when we signed him but Smith needed to stand up for his views more if he didn't want Ings.

14 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

The bloke is being paid 6m a year while at the same time being a complete and utter failure.

How about having some empathy for the fans who are having to pay through the nose to watch the garbage football he's putting out.

That is how much he values himself and his work at Rangers tbf. Personally, the money in football is gross but that is a wider debate I suppose. 

I do have empathy with other fans, I am in the stands with them. But If you don't want to support your team - don't go and let somebody else have a chance. You have a choice. Sick to death of so called fans weaponizing their support as a threat.... just don't go if you are that upset and have a choice! Go to the cinema.

That reflects worse on Smith than it does Purslow IMO.

2 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

Defo not. In a training school, you would be learning. Gerrard doesn't.

Have some empathy at least, you must have started something that you were novice at and made mistakes during a certain period of time but gradually got better over time?

Nobody thinks this is a training school. It is a big job/challenge - Gerrard will likely have been sacked after the Southampton game if he didn't get the results and an improvement in performance IMO....I don't think he is getting a free ride here, he knows the game and what needs to happen for him to keep his job - thus far. SG has done enough with recent results and performances. But as Gerrard has said "he isn't out of the woods yet". 

Gerrard has admitted he has made mistakes so far too. I think he thought this would be an easier than he thought. It seems he was overly enthusiastic when he first got the job and wanted to implement too many ideas at once and too quickly. He said too much and under delivered, that is fair cop. I personally felt uncomfortable with the notion that this would be a short term success story, I think it is going to take longer than that. Gerrard should have been viewed as a medium - long term appointment for the club. And I think those who have appointed on a short term basis were the foolish ones (Purslow and Lange, NSWE.) or they acknowledge this is a slower build?

I know I am one of a few who still believes in Gerrard on this forum, I just think you have to overcome these difficult times to get better long term. Gerrard has those leadership qualities to be a very good manager I believe, he is in the phase of developing the tactical and technical side of his team. It is an old fashion belief but you have to earn the right to play. For what it is worth, I think the players are playing for him and believe in him.