A'Villan

20 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

People who are upset and thinks it " goes against everything we are trying to do, and is not along with our policy " realise that Coutinho ( for example ) coming here to help now, doesn't mean we sell all the other young players we've signed and relinquish the Academy right?

These might just be experienced heads to help us in the now, while our own younger players get to develop, learn from some of the best and slowly get integrated into the team.

 

What exactly is it we are trying to build?

An outfit to compete at the highest level?

Coutinho is one of the best players of recent times and is only 29.

I am ecstatic to read there's a chance of us signing him again.

Even though the fees and his form today is less desirable than when he was at Inter Milan, we'd be getting a player who's pure ability as opposed to potential. 

We can still purchase players who are more suited to a certain criteria that will ensure sustainability as well as success, however it's refreshing to see that our hierarchy hasn't lost sight that it's good football that wins games and not just profitable and sustainable business models.

I don't really understand the frustration. 

Last season he scored or assisted one in every three games.

He was lethal for Lyon on the right side and is for me, our best option there by a mile currently. 

3 hours ago, Zatman said:

One strange dream

I think Coutinho and Firmino links are genuine possibilities. Long way from signed certainties, sure.

Grealish is not going to happen. Not this season, or next. However if he fails to produce in the way city signed him to, they may be open to a transfer if they can recoup enough of the fee to sign someone else. 

Imagine Grealish, Coutinho and Firmino signing. We'd be unbelievably positioned to finish top half and even push for Europa league. Providing chemistry went half decently. 

I know its not going to happen but one can dream right?

I'm not trying to shit stir here. However of the players still at Liverpool to of taken the pitch alongside Gerrard, they are Henderson, Firmino, Milner and Gomez.

We won't get their captain, but I wonder if enquiries won't be made for the other three. 

Firmino could well be on the move. With Haaland linked and Jota firmly staking his claim, there's only so much room alongside Mane and Salah.

Milner, while he's had 12 appearances this season, at age 35 probably isn't going to utilised beyond this season when they have Keita, Henderson, Thiago, Fabinho, and Ox as well.

Gomez I don't really have anything to say about it as I don't know him or his role beyond hearing things were going sour a while back.

Anyway, reason for my post is I know first hand from my basketball career that head coaches will always reach out to the best talent that they've got history with, especially when that head coach has been given license to bring in his personnel to try and restore the standing of a club or promote one of lesser standings to new heights. If there's not an infrastructure firmly in place to determine who comes in and why, I know head coach is reaching out to those who've got the job done alongside him before.

Whether they come for that ride too is a whole other story. Wages and club placement and chance of prosperity as well as the role on offer to the player all factor in among other elements. 

Milner I could see back here on a one year. Firmino less so, yet his market value is definitely no where near what it was, and at 30, top European clubs won't offer him either a starting role or the money he's had to date. It's possible. Gomez as I said, don't know.

Just a thought and luckily for you lot there probably won't be much more between now and Brentford. Certainly exhausted my ignorance on current affairs for the time being..

"Is he the best in the world? He might not get the attention of Messi and Ronaldo but yes, I think he just might be. He has great passing ability, can tackle and scores goals, but most importantly he gives the players around him confidence and belief. You can't learn that – players like him are just born with that presence."

—Zinedine Zidane on Gerrard, 2009.

As for Grealish va Sterling..

Sterling has been given the opportunity to play among the best at the highest level since he was a teenager. He was ushered in and given the VIP treatment to ensure his prodigious abilities would hold the value promised and the investment made a worthwhile return.

To be fair to him he took the opportunity on with killer instincts and he has always played the game with an intent, incision and directness on the ball that is equal in importance to his skill and ability. He's gone from strength to strength and is deserving of his accolades both for team and individual. 

Grealish was thrown in the deep end as a teen. Played because of a need for an answer to the teams lacking, as much as it was due to it being the time for JG to cut his teeth at PL level. He had his moments but as the whole club looked for answers, they weren't to be found on the shoulders of young Grealish, yet.

Where Sterling went from strength to strength forging his identity and way of playing in teams that had seen his talent and accommodated for him to reach his potential within their set-up. Grealish was left to carry the weight and burden of his boyhood club's dreams and the pressures of the ever present demands of the villa faithful, as the club he loved and represented dovetailed into descent and headed for near extinction. 

I think Raheem is more established at the top level, it's no wonder, he's not known anything else.

For me Grealish has paid his dues and is en route to becoming the better player.

If I had to pick one of the two I'm choosing Grealish every time. Those runs and that weight of pass. He carries the ball forward not only with three or four defenders around him, it's like he brings the whole crowd along for the ride too. Sterling has quick feet and a deft touch and killer finish. He's a better goalscorer than Jack. No doubt. However we'll see if Jack doesn't add that to his game too.

I still remember the days supporting Villa when I'd watch his Nottingham Forest goals and assists. He's got it in him for sure. Always been critiqued for his numbers though. 

Villa needed him to bring the ball forward and create something from nothing, needed him to bring the club forward from something to nothing. And he did.

For that he's in a league way beyond Sterling. Up there and even greater than the legacy David Silva left at City. 

De Bruyne, Sterling, Bernardo, Foden, Gundogan, Rodri, Mahrez, Zinchenko and Fernandinho, and until recently Torres might be included, all are players who will need minutes at one point or another. All are more or less capable of delivering the standard City expects in their respective positions, and all will need to play to retain their value in the market if their value is no longer in playing for City as first choice. 

Grealish is one of the best players in the world, no doubt about it, however his main asset I would say is his ability to drive forward with the ball at his feet and to unlock the defence with the weight of his passes, there's not many if any better than him at that right now.

City's build up often has their opponents lines so deep in defence that City need intricate one twos and flick ons or crafty lobs to play someone in and find space for an attempt inside the box. This way of playing is fairly new to Grealish, whereas Bernardo, Sterling and KDB have been at it for a while now, and together in their set-up. 

Grealish has done excellent to integrate and I'm sure he will kick on and find his way to work alongside the other world class players around him, while making his own mark within the team and on the league. His best is yet to come, it's just whether he stays driven and motivated to bring it about, which I have no doubt he will. He'll more than likely be a champion by seasons end. And I'm sure having left us, his dream come true, he will have in his mind that it wasn't for a ticket to glory by other players efforts, he will want to know that he earned that silverware by his best efforts week in and week out as an integral member of the match day XI.

My sister's fishing boat attracted an Orca to swim right up within metres of the boat and her friends dive float where they were free diving. They realise they have tuna on board and one of the blokes aboard says let's get the f*** out of here.

My sisters message informed me they had the divers scramble on board before that happened.

All I'm getting is Firmino and Coutinho reports. El Ghazi to Hammers. Dougie interest from Gunners.

I'll see you guys for Brentford I think.

I'll leave you with this thought..

Remember how dubious some of us were about the new manager being SG even when the bookmakers had him as odds on favourite? 

While I have no idea if either would come,  I have almost no doubt that if Gerrard had a relationship to remember with Coutinho or Firmino, then he will be inquiring with our club and then the players themselves. 

6 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

I don't think that's accurate.

Just under half of our fixtures this season under Smith that were against bottom half sides, we averaged 59.5% possession. 

You are right in that sides with more talent and skill in them will generally have more possession than their opponents, but it's not a given and not every powerhouse club plays to have as many passes as possible for each attempt on goal.

@villalad21

We should be looking at guys who can come in and improve the side regardless of how old they are or how established they have been. Guys who have a point to prove and who are going to complement the strategy and tactics employed by SG.

We can adjust and tailor contracts according to where players are at in their career and what is in the interests of the club and player alike.

1 minute ago, villalad21 said:

Easier to play possesion based in the Championship where the teams you come up against are so poor. 

In PL under Smith we've always been a counter attacking team. When Shakespeare arrived we became even more direct. Bordering a long ball team. 

Will take a while for Gerrard to change the style. For now he seem to be focusing on defensive structure which is understandable. 

A pre season and recruitment will be gold. 

I don't think that's accurate.

Just under half of our fixtures this season under Smith that were against bottom half sides, we averaged 59.5% possession. 

17 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Smith assembled a counter attacking side. 

We don't have the players to play possession football yet. 

Smith had at different times varying approaches to the way Villa played football.

Playing possession football is a tactical approach or philosophy, and when Smith came in, he took an underachieving side and got them playing a short passing and ball retentive game, while it took some time to get the results and outcomes, we had been noticeably better with keeping the ball and creating chances than our opposition and soon enough the desired results came with. 

I think the contrast in Bruce and Smith's tactics and set-up is enough for us to see that you can have a side assembled any which way you like, consistent results come when the coaching and management is done well. While certain players are more suited to a given approach it is the overall mechanics and chemistry of a team which decide how good they are, or if they are lacking.

I think Smith wanted to have a side that was capable of playing many ways. I think this is shown both in his formation and personnel recruitment . Our midfield consists of players who are technically sound and also able to play a holding role or even a volante in the case of Dougie. 

Smith actually says as much in an interview on coaching and development. He says as professionals there really shouldn't be many aspects of the game that players aren't exposed to.

2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Here's my take on how we play. I've had to do drawings. I don't know why Tyrone Mings' initials are smaller than everyone else's. Sorry Skipper. 

This is our basic shape - I've picked Ramsey in the second ten position and Sanson in midfield - but we've had Watkins start where Ramsey is and Ings up front.

It's your basic Christmas tree, with a back four, then a line of three midfielders whose primary role is control, two tens and a lone striker.

Defensively we use that shape to force teams to attack us down the flanks, the three will sit in front of the back four, the two tens chase the deep lying midfielders of the opposition and we make you try to beat us with crosses.

When we've got the ball, we turn that tree upside down.

Cash and Targett get right up the field to provide width and give us overloads on the flanks - the two tens stay narrow, with the striker occupying the two centrebacks, the hope is that Buendia and Ramsey draw the full backs into narrow positions - if the opponents midfield drops deep, our three follow them and we can push them in. If the full backs get drawn inside there should be lots of room out wide for Cash and Targett and if not, then we have enough decent ball players with our tens and the support of the three in the middle to make things happen.

In terms of width, the key triangles are the ones where you have Buendia, McGinn and Cash - McGinn comes out wider and backs Cash up, with Buendia staying narrow to play one twos or make things happen centrally. We saw a lot of this when Nakamba was playing and Luiz started appearing down the left hand side behind Targett and making things happen.

I think it's a system that really suits our midfielders - none of them can hold on their own, but now none of them have to, there are three doing the work - we have some decent ball players and midfielders that can make things happen and the numbers we're able to keep in there means they have the freedom to do that. I think it suits Cash, who is by nature someone who wants to run into the spaces in the opposition corners of the pitch, it suits Targett a lot less.

I think it has to be one or the other of Watkins and Ings - I think putting Watkins in the position I've got Ramsey in really doesn't work - Watkins isn't great there and it takes away from our ability to create for Ings. Personally I'd have Watkins up top and Ings as the option.

It doesn't work so well for the wingers that Smith bought in for his 4-3-3. 

Of those, I'm not sure any can play as wing backs, so it'll be about whether they can adjust to a role that is based around them remaining in central positions and playing a clever short passing game - there's plenty of talent in Traore and Bailey, but I don't think there's a natural role for them in this shape - there's scope for either to make the adjustment though, although I think Bailey is the more likely to make it work, with Traore a maverick sub.

Anyway, that's my top pence worth, I'm not 100% and I'm sure there's room for interpretation, but it's what I'm seeing - I'm also sure that Gerrard and his team have at least a plan B and plenty of flexibility, but based on what I've seen so far, this is Gerrardball.

 

 

I haven't seen a live performance or one in full since the disastrous Wolves comeback, as I said in another thread I've seen every match but mostly only in 9, 24, or 45 minute highlight reels. Which doesn't really depict the game as it flows and unravels. 

I guess I'm still living in Smith's era.  Probably a good reminder to tune in for a full ninety minutes and get up to speed with what Gerrard is bringing to the table for his seat.

Thanks for the in depth portrait of how we go about it.

19 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Watkins yes, he's played next to Buendia as a number ten and looked poor - it's not his game, he's perfectly set up for the lone front man role but he's not enough of a linking player to play as a ten. 

If we go with three lines of players, I think the deepest line is looking pretty decent at the moment and would be even more so if it weren't for Nakamba's injury.

McGinn, Luiz, Ramsey, Sanson and Nakamba give us some decent quality and cover for three spots.

The front line is also well covered with Ings or Watkins more than capable of leading the line.

It's that middle line - Buendia fits perfectly in the scheme - but we're struggling next to him, Chukwuemeka fits there nicely but he's very raw, Ramsey can do it and would probably be my preference at the moment - Traore I'm not sure is enough of a team man for the role in terms of linking the play from the three to the striker and playing lots of clever one-twos with Buendia - when you give Traore the ball, you aren't sure what you're getting next - it's his strength and his weakness, Bailey might be a shout but he's better coming from wide spots and that's not something we need him to do, same goes for El Ghazi and Philogene-Bidace - and for me, Watkins has been very poor there - he's not a link man in a million years, he's a striker.

In this scheme, we need to hold the ball in the middle in front of the opposition back four, play short, clever passes and try to draw the full backs into narrow positions - we can then get the ball out wide to Cash and Targett who should have a load of space or work a clever through ball to the striker. 

I think we need to put someone in next to Buendia that can play that short passing, bounce a ball off a midfielder or the front man, move the defence about and draw fouls - when we get that right it'll bring the best out of Buendia and I think the best out of whichever of the forwards plays. For me at the moment, our best option for that is Ramsey, Chukwuemeka could grow into it and we might need to go out to the market to get someone.

 

I like the analysis but I think Watkins is actually quite clever with one two passing sequences when he wants to be. Very capable at that. I have noticed that he's been a bit more head down, solo efforts, and look to shoot first in his play recently, however that's not all there is to his game. Remember him and Grealish linking up and causing headaches together? There were too many combinations as to how they might link up once the ball entered the final third and the edge of the box. Nightmare combination and Traore grew into his own on the opposite flank and provided a different sort of attack.

Remember Ollie played as a wide forward under Smith at Brentford I believe? Could be butchering that but I do recall him playing wide forward before he came here. He would receive the ball wide at times too in his first season despite being our central option. Grealish would play him in on the left side then make a run centrally. 

I think it worth noting though that you seem to be setting up with a number ten playing behind a front two, whereas for me it's a 4-3-3. Completely different approaches to build up passages in the attacking half and final third.

I think it's too early to get excited for me just yet. Desirable run of outcomes for us yes, however I wonder about how much influence SG has had on those results. We have had less of the ball and less shots in some of those victories, and we have a very capable outfit making up our ranks.

Five straight losses is far from ideal and I can fully understand why it's considered a deal breaker for our owners with the ambitions they have, as well as the nous to achieve it. Yet I wonder if Gerrard is so far above Smith that he would not succumb to five losses considering the teams we played. Four of which find themselves top half, two or three in European placing. Wolves was a disaster comeback that should have been a win for us really.

I digress. Very much optimistic in the boards decision making ability that we have made a more suitable appointment to move upwards. However wondering if Smith was really behind a rot at all, and if SG will be better as I held Smith in a high regard.

3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Perhaps, but I don't think it really suits him as well as being in a more advanced role - it'd also be moving a player into an area that's already very competitive with McGinn, Luiz, Ramsey, Sanson and Nakamba all competing for three positions and moving him away from a position where we don't have the same natural depth and where we've been playing a striker out of position.

 

Which striker is that? Watkins? 

I was entertaining this line-up or close to:

McGinn - Sanson - Buendia

Traore - Ings - Watkins

We have three starting quality players who can play the holding role in midfield and I see those three being played together more often than not. Even if we were to drop one playing two mids in a holding role wouldn't be suicide. I suppose it depends on the opposition. Agree a strong CDM would be a good option to have but way I see it, we should be looking at anyone who is going to enhance the quality of our starting line-up.  

Clement Grenier is available on a free.

Could do worse to bolster midfield and provide competition. 

2021 highlights, not bad...

Does anyone think Buendia has the traits to play on the left side of the central midfield three?

Watkins has a good eye for a one two move and Buendia and him could wreak havoc together, allowing Targett or the LB of the day to remain more defensive or at least have the responsibility and onus to get forward lessened.

9 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Same thing anyway - attacking width will come from Cash - he's the nominal 'winger' in this system - and I think Gerrard is keener on getting him support from McGinn than having the number ten drift out - I might well be wrong on that last bit though.

I don't have any insight into Gerrards system or plans, but it would make sense that the right sided midfield player come over to be an outlet option and support our attacks down the right flank as it allows us to keep positional balance while occupying threatening territory both centrally and if we opt to switch sides. 

I'm not sure what's in the plans for us going forward but my thoughts are when we opt for a 4-3-3 which has been more common than playing a ten in the hole, but perhaps I'm mistaken. 

13 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I guess the issue I see with him is that "on the left" now means Targett - the position we need him to play is much more a central one, sure he can drift wide from there, but the two tens are naturally quite narrow in this formation - if anything, support for the full backs out wide comes from the midfield three playing behind the two tens. It really suits Buendia because he can play quick four and five yard one-twos and little through balls, we need someone sharp and connect enough next to him to help him do that.

Having Watkins next to him has been difficult as Watkin's really isn't a player that plays that way, he's a finisher that doesn't always connect well with others and I think Traore might struggle because in those tight spaces when a player gives him a ball, they need to have some idea what he's going to do with it - I think Traore is so unpredictable that it might be difficult for others to play alongside him in tight spaces.

 

Apologies I meant down the right..

I disagree with some of that on Traore.

Traore is a gun on his left boot, and his got an eye for a through ball to play in someone when the opposition defensive line is high. Watkins loves to run into space. I also think that Traore is great in tight situations as his feet are fast and his touch is quite decent. He's quite unpredictable and spontaneous as you say, but with a supporting right back and options in midfield and from our central forward, he's got options as long as he keeps his head up and makes a decent read.

Added to that he's a threat from the byline, can cutback and has a lethal left foot strike. His crosses aren't world class but he gets himself into a good enough position that the end ball doesn't need to be pin point in order to land in position for a team mate to score.

33 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

He's looked good and I think he will absolutely be pushing for a starting place when everyone is fit.

I think Ramsey can push into a ten role for the moment next to Buendia, but as mad as it sounds given his form before his injury, I can see Nakamba struggling to get back into the side.

 

Ramsey has promise and has been good but I wonder if he starts as often as he has for the remainder?

His role will be central or to the left in midfield, in the hole as a ten, or to the left in a front three, no?

It's going to be tough for anyone who's not displaying their worth and value to retain a spot with the options we have.