A'Villan

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I agree with your appreciation of the physicality of the game and your analogies to boot...

but where I differ, is your appraisal of Dougie and the highlighted bits is where I disagree....its easy to see why he is described as an enigma....He is good at somethings and passive at others and it depends which things catch our eye.

The very reason that SG has decided to go in to the market, is because Dougie is too passive in the No6 role...He makes the odd challenge sure, but his game is not about that, and has said so himself, he see's himself as a no8 and I agree with him.

The problem can be when sightly built players go in for a challenge they have to over compensate for their lack of muscle and its that, that refs pick up on...it looks callous as opposed to routine from a bigger guy....this is a generalisation of course.

Dougie does divide opinion in our Fan Base, but imo each side are arguing slightly different points.

DL has a typical Brazillian touch, and his passing is first class....I wouldn't like to see him go, more like to see him work further up the pitch, where I think his natural abilities are better suited.

No we are in agreement on Dougie Luiz, almost entirely. I see him as an eight more than a six, however I think he can play both relatively well, and at his age and how long he's been in the league, he's got some development to do in any position he plays in.

I think there's shades of the other day making way back into the discussion when you so aptly put the debate is also down to how we might view what it means to be a CDM. 

I mean Pirlo started out as a #10 and Ancelotti put him in a deeper role and he went on to become one of if not the best DLP's ever. It was his ability on the ball and orchestrating play with pinpoint accuracy and weight of pass that just wove its way into the next passage of play so that his team mates were well placed. Dougie doesn't quite have the poise for that yet, but technically I think he could give it a good go. 

And he does hustle, he's too young and eager, almost naive to read the play well enough to pick pockets yet and I doubt that is going to be one of his better assets, though he makes good interceptions when he's in a position that allows for it.

Unless stationed in front of the back four with others who are further forward doing their bit to get back and press the opposition into channels whereby only so much can happen and the CDM can be clued in to where that will be and therefore anticipates in time to make the intercept, he's not going to be that kind of player anyway because it's not on his radar. City wanted him as a six. But then again City's six spends more time being an outlet in the attacking half for build up play than actually nullifying moves before the back line has to.

I think its a bit premature to pigeon hole him anyway. SG might inspire him to become a version of himself that we are yet to see. He might get the feeling that Villa no longer offers the role he wants and aspires for himself and seeks a move.

I really don't know.

27 minutes ago, Mazrim said:

We all need a bit of Vitamin D. Neverending dark ass January.

We've had a week of over 30 degrees Celsius heat. Australian sun is harsh too.

I still get my daily routine for basketball in at outdoor courts so I get some sunshine and when it's at a park among the trees too. I prefer outdoor courts, a lot of pros think I'm crazy for it. Even during winter if the concrete is dry enough and the wind doesn't carry your shot off point I'm all about getting among outside.

On 21/01/2022 at 02:16, blandy said:

Back in the old days, I sued to go into the local building society branch on a saturday morning, to get my money out for the week. There was a lady worked there at the counter who wouldn't speak to people if she could help it, I noticed after a few weeks of queuing. Every person would go up and say [e.g.] "Morning - Can I pay in this cheque/take out 50 pounds"? or whatever, and the woman would take the pass book and do the transaction, barely looking up or speaking.

So I made it my plan, when I got to the head of the queue to say nothing, to wait until she looked up and said something before I would speak. I knew she had to look up and speak first, to indicate she was ready in the eyes of any onlooker in the queue. So I always won my little game. She wasn't rude as such, but I don't think she liked people at all.

I really don't blame anybody for having a shit time of it and being disappointed, even disillusioned with people to the degree they just don't bother. There is a real tendency for people to be so blind in their ways that they think what determines survival is one's capacity to take life as a means to keeping your own. That's a means to death not promoting life. How creative and inspiring is that line of thinking? I'm not saying it is everybody's approach or philosophy, but I would say everyone has seen it to varying degree's. Masculinity being about one's capacity to inflict physical damage and be feared, while femininity is about how well one can undermine another's character. How utterly backwards and toxic people can be. High school is the great example of it, and guess what? That's also where our future generations spend half their waking hours developing and sensing what this world is about and what it entails for them. 

What irks me is when we lose sight of the truth that just because you've suffered in life, doesn't make it your entitlement to make it that way for others. You've got to acknowledge that while things may have happened that you didn't appreciate, or that simply obliterated one's sense of faith that it will come good. It's your responsibility to make it different if you want it to be that way, because as has so clearly been established already, others could give a damn about how you're day is with any real or genuine concern. 

My heart goes out to that lady, and I hope that someone came along and offered her a reminder that she's appreciated and that life is a blessing, but as we are life, we must be responsible for seeing that we embody the ways in which we want if to be. Apathy and malevolence never really spawned good vibes anywhere I've been.

On 19/01/2022 at 17:30, rjw63 said:

Be much easier to just quit smoking. 

I still enjoy a cigarette. Five a day or thereabouts. Smoking daily since age 14 certainly wasn't smart for my basketball career, but that given the poverty and difficulties my home life brought with it, my career was never really going to reach the heights it mightve when I was in selection for the Australian Institute of Sport at age 11 after being first selected for the nationals tournament for best players in the country. The decisions I made out of depression and disillusionment that followed might be reason I became a smoker. However I've endured far worse than a cigarette throughout this lifetime. And as I said I still enjoy a cigarette. I don't drink any alcohol unless it's one or two drinks for somebody else's celebratory occasion. 

You are right though it's not exactly a habit to promote.

2 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

Back to stats it might interest you he's =1st in PL for tackles per game and =8th for interceptions

Checking those on whoscored is what prompted me to go on an expedition for highlights, and I watched 24 minutes of the Everton game which was an entertaining game and Bissouma was brilliant in it. 

I'm not particularly stats orientated, it no doubt serves a purpose and can be an indication in some key components that are pivotal to outcomes fairly reliably. 

I will never cease to use the Einstein adage that not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. 

It bores me to tears the way we've become data and looking to statistics obsessed not just in football but in life too.

At what point in time on this earth, ever, has anyone known the measure of a man to be how many seconds they lived? 

It's the qualities and characteristics unique to the individuals that make up our experience, memories and legacies. And that's the way it should be. There's more to life than data retention, there's the magic that unfolds every moment.

Muhammad Ali said he didn't count his pushups, he only counted when it started hurting. 

Don't get me wrong it serves a purpose but "I got a bigger number than you" to determine who ultimately has bragging rights is just boring to me. Let the game do the talking and if you weren't there for the contest then you missed out and that's real. 

When I fish for stats and league standing I take it as some form of insight that I otherwise wouldn't of had but seeing it for yourself is irreplaceable. 

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

They would both regularly start for us. McTominay especially is a very good player

Agree to disagree. McTominay isn't doing anything McGinn hasn't done umteen times more and I think McGinns assertion on games is much greater.

I would say McTominay is a little more composed and has an air of ease when delivering some fine plays. But I don't think he has anywhere near the graft required to fight in a side less stacked with talent.

15 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

I feel like that's one of the best gestures known, and I'm glad it's frequently used by my culture too. If you see Grandma start with that, best be ready for the steady hand wooden spoon or rolling pin discipline from the highest echelons of authority known to man, donned in the apron uniform, sleeves rolled up.

You see that and best believe you best start running.

@Stevo985 Fred and McTominay are not taking places in our starting line-up. 

I was just discussing this exact topic with a United supporter earlier today. He agrees McGinn is a level above both Unitwd mids. Despite this supporter nit wanting his club to pay 50million for McGinn. He had no doubt which of the three was best. And I'd say neither of the devil's duo are any better than Dougie either. Best could be yet to come from Dougie and SJM I feel will maintain his current levels for another season or two if he can stay healthy. 

1 hour ago, Xela said:

He's a decent player no doubt, but I feel Bissouma has turned into the most overly hyped midfielder in the world on this board. 

His performance against Everton got me asking if he's not one of the best in form deep lying midfielders in the PL right now.

Anyone better that I can think of has a support cast around them that builds them up no end. Bissouma against Everton was a one man takeover at times, and he was a presence throughout, when his team mates were up to it, he was ready for that too.

If he can sustain that level of drive and impact he'll be one of the best as long as he can maintain it.

14 hours ago, sidcow said:

I miss the heady days of circular arguments about if measures were OTT or a waste of time. Intrusive or protectionist. People at constant loggerheads with nothing shifting the view of either side. The never ending, ever spiraling downwards bickering ultimately ending in immature and unnecessary insults between fellow posters. 

Heady days. 

Fortunately I can just throw myself right back into it by going into the transfer or any player thread. 

 

You're on some new level self amusement recently. Roger that. Can confirm attempts to evoke smiles and freshen the air with light-hearted humour. Outrageous behaviour! How terribly unbecoming!

29 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I wouldnt say its a strong dislike but would ahve liked to have been abit taller

Adonis and Hercules couldn't reach the heights you do @Demitri_C. 

A levendi as tall as the tallest dendri.

When people are going to wake up to see that we spend our energy allowing what is intended and designed to bring us together to be at the heart and centre of what divides us as people.

Religion and cultural traditions are meant for unity and togetherness, not for the divorce of any chance of that being how it ends up.

And if I'm being real about my thoughts and feelings I'm wondering when it's going to be understood that racial conflict and holy wars are distractions from the real conflict of interest, and that is that society is so wholeheartedly entrenched in a narrative where the rich tell the middle class to blame the poor, and that it's money that solves problems so we must all sell ourselves as best we can to acquire it. We don't see how truly impoverished we are, then. Not just merely financially but more importantly spiritually and mentally. And to be reminded of these problems in our world today we often cast doubt upon the idea conspiracies can and do happen all too regularly, and we lash out on those that remind us of these problems by saying they are themselves conspiring to corrupt the integrity of our pure and benevolent system that is so far beyond what has ever been.

At least the native Americans had affinity as a philosophical principle to live by. I'm at risk of being on the wrong end someone's aggression if I simply delay them for a few moments longer than they were expecting. Madness.

Because even though we survive through the struggle that made us, we still look at ourselves through the eyes of the people that hate us.

That I have let other people point the finger and tell others and myself they are no good, and lay blame, and undermining the very nature of these undesirable people's being, all because that's the best response these self entitled authorities on matters can muster at the time, and because that's what suits them.

I have been complicit in my own withholding back from acting on what I know within myself is going to benefit many down trodden and defeated people who could use a hand and even a voice until they regain or even get acquainted with theirs. All because I'm afraid of it all being for nothing and my looking an arse as a result. If I know deep down we are all here in this together, like it or not, then those moments where I choose to be about myself and my own appearance as an individual by letting a some confrontation and conflict of interest deter me from potentially raising the quality of life for others. The scale to which can only be determined by following through on the idea to fuflill its potential, whether that potential is either ultimately a failed cause or a success, it's not the outcome that matters. A goal allows us direction and it's the path that will let us know if we should aim better or if we were on the right hunt all along.

Einstein said its not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer. And my dad once said to me, just because there's poo on the sidewalk, doesn't mean I bend over and smell it. To that I replied, someone's got to clean up.

I have spent countless hours and many years immersed in exploring an understanding for this life, from my angle. I'm quite well versed in a thing or two now.

I'm still sitting on my hands though because I always stop at what if I fail? When if I followed through it might become, but what if I fly?

And who better to guide and instruct Dougie Luiz than the versatile man himself who played nearly every role on the pitch let alone midfield, SG.

5 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Ready made replacement when Messi retires

Buendia actually would be one to thrive in a tiki taka style of play, provided he had adequate players to join him.

So incisive, precise and decisive. Cuts right through the heart of defence. 

I think the frustration with Dougie is as much an identity crisis for the fans as it is Dougie lacking in any position or role he's deployed in. We just don't know what to expect, and that frustrates as. We fear what we don't know. I remember when he let that pass go through his legs and directly to an opponents feet, on the edge of the box, and what was sending the Villa faithful mad was that he deliberately didn't look at where it might end up. What a blunder. It was in that moment I honestly saw for myself for the first time we had a special player with a stroke of genius in him. Absolute fool to try that at the end of the pitch that he did, idiotic, and it cost us, but a fool can learn more from a foolish question than an intelligent person who never asks because they think they ought to know already can. Dougie certainly can ask questions of our opponents and if they are up to it. If that move had been on the edge of the box in our attacking third, good chance it's falls to one of our men with opponents unawares to what can happen and a few steps behind getting to the contest.

He's versatile enough to play as both an eight and a six imo. Yet he's been between the two and a hybrid like a volante I suppose. In any case or position, Dougie is still cutting his teeth. 23 years old, not blessed with athletic prowess, he's got a huge responsibility and while young men have energy and are less concerned with fatigue and balancing energy expenditure, they are not battle hardened yet. For me when Dougie has the experience to accompany the bright spark he has,  he could be a versatile midfielder the PL remembers for a while.

15 hours ago, MaVilla said:

wonder if he will get his long awaited debut....

They are playing Chile on 28/01 & Colombia on 01/02,

Top 4 qualify for the World Cup from the South American WC qually league thingy, with 4 games left to play, so that means Argentina have already qualified i think, so he might get a debut in this international break?

 

I have no idea about the midfield of Argentina but surely he gets an opportunity somewhere soon. Knock, knock, knocking on the door with some heavenly football.

15 hours ago, TRO said:

I see your point.

I am not saying this disparagingly, but most teams are more physical than us( this goes back a long time, now)...its an area, I hope we can enhance.....its a part of being "easy to play against"

Even our front 2 Ings and Watkins are not aggressive enough, and that doesn't mean going around kicking defenders.

The top sides are physical, with stealth and engage with close contact as a central part of games....Man City are physical, when they have to be.

It comes back the that great saying in football........" You have to WIN the right to play football"

McGinn and Luiz get stuck in. And that's the first step in winning a fight, thinking you can and acting on that.

Neither are blessed in terms of physique or deft with their feet enough to pick the pockets of opposition before they have a clue. However both make their presence known. Albeit its not ideal and we probably won't go on to stop the best clubs from creating if they are the best protection for our last line we can assemble and deploy for that purpose.

One aspect of my wanting to see Sanson more often is that I feel he does possess reads that allow him easier dispossession of opposition plays and build up. Whereas McGinn and Dougie are just terrier like and often annoy an opponent into an error, or at least get in their heads with the constant attempts to win it for our side.

All top players are physical when they need to be, or feel the need to be, like Messi in his younger years just had to have his say and he wasn't done until the ninety minute bell rang, it was his ball and certainly no opponent was going to play with it. Then there was Zidanes headbutt, not exactly great football but my Dad has always said, "you've got to have a bit of mongrel in you" and he's right. If you are not capable of fighting and therefore being cruel at times, you are going to be vulnerable and at the mercy of those who are that way for whatever reason they are that way. I think the one exception to that being true in football history is Ronaldinho, who was so lovely and nice, always and sincerely. He just beamed with that smile and his manner. Even the Real Madrid fans applauded the way he played, despite it being their loss. 

I got a bit carried away there.

Definitely agree being a physical presence is of utmost importance to winning, they're not ghosts out there.

Some Man United fans think signing Ronaldo has been a hindrance to their cause. You just can't please some fans.

Resigning a player who's in the discussion for all time greatest in the game and apparently it's a problem because Bruno isn't playing as well and their title hopes are dim as a consequence. 

Get real.

3 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

I'm a stats nerd so I checked.

1.5 tackles =91st

1.1 interceptions =81st

0.9 key passes =65th 

In French league player tables

Compared with our current squad he would be 7th 6th =6th in those stats

Luiz 1.9 1.2 1.3 (5th 5th 4th of Villa players)

Mcginn 2.9 0.8 1.7 (1st 8th 2nd)

as comparison

P.S. I'm not trying to be an arse about this, just that top 100 in a stat in a league is nothing special 

P.P.S. Also highlights madness of people talking about Mcginn is surplus to our needs

Which just highlights my saying it's not about the numbers alone.

Yes England is a better league but sometimes it's actually easier to excel in some respects in an environment where the people around you can appreciate your skill, or just that simply allows for it to happen that way.

I will come back with an example but for now I will say that directly translating numbers from a player in England to a player in France doesn't account for the differences, subtleties and niches between the leagues and how the playing style contrasts. 

37 minutes ago, Zatman said:

The break is a good time to fix some issues. The main one is quite serious in that we only play 45 minute games at the moment and its not good enough 

Im not expecting us to dominate for 90 minutes but at least be on it. Vs United we beay them twice if we played the full game properly 

Something that needs to be addressed and rectified, absolutely. 

However no point banging on skulls to wake it in us, as it's as much about recognising that we've had a fair amount of change occur, and for some time.

Add to this first choice players aren't all established and so we've tinkered with how we play to find out what works and what to leave behind. Then not all our players have been available. We have the makings of a great team, but we are not so deep with talent that we can just expect ourselves to be on top of contests based on the will of the players alone. 

Every fixture is a fresh game of chess and we have done well to date under SG to walk away winners where we have. A well placed pawn can take down a king, but some sides are so full of ability they've got queens instead of pawns on the board.

18 hours ago, TRO said:

Its great to win away from home and keep a clean sheet, no matter, who we play.

Everton do have players who can hurt you, if they are in the groove.

and despite us showing true grit, in that second half to bring home the bacon.....It would be folly to ignore some of our shortfalls in conceding so much ground to them.

A better side would have punished us, in much the way Wolves did....If you surrender the initiative, that's what happens, it becomes an onslaught.

we need a few more 90 minute players, to resist that opposition, fight back, which is necessary at times.

I think the result was great....but when you defend that deep, you have to hope the quality in the opposition is low....my point is, we won't always get away with that.

We are trying to bring in a CDM, and in that second half, you can see why.

While I don't follow Everton at all outside of a few highlights and our fixtures with them, from an 'on paper' perspective they should be challenging European placing. 

Success is what happens when preparation meets opportunity and our guys are working to develop, anyone can see that. I am actually thinking in this game the more concerning aspect was how we might have punished them more for all the ground we had first half, and less about how a capable Everton side who by all means are searching for anything to walk away with and build on, had some substantial opportunities to amend being second best in the first half. They are desperate for that and don't undermine how good they can be by underestimating that side of the fixture.

They are more physical than us too. Which despite being on the back foot first half was always going to serve them in terms of stamina.

The most energy depleting times in the contest come from grafting to cover ground but mostly from those intensely contested moments where you have to give your best effort and sustain it longer than the guy who's fighting the same as you. I think Everton as a side are more equipped for a physical contest than us as is.

1 hour ago, hippo said:

Right now he isn't the same player. He wouldn't be here on loan if he was.

The hope is he gets back to something like those 2017 levels. If he doesn't then we have to ask could the likely £35m fee and £100k+ PW wages be better spent ?

Hopefully he gets up to speed. But we have to make the judgement on his contribution now - not what he did 4 years ago.

Off topic but my philosophical outlook.

Pessimism is doomed before it even begins, as by its own nature is too heavily entrenched in failure that it doesnt know how to set out for anything new or different. 

Realism is fine, and even a great measure at times. It is however limited to what is apparent and already established. In this way it will remain as it always has been as it doesn't know how to look for anything that hasn't been done before.

Optimism is only bound to one's imagination for a better approach, outcome, quality of life, whatever it may be. It's not to be mistaken with blind faith or a foolish resistance to accept things which are not going to deliver or serve any purpose. It by meaning suggests that it is a way to make the best of what you've got.

And what we've got is a player with much more going for him than you or I casting premature verdicts on what he's capable of.