A'Villan

1 minute ago, foreveryoung said:

Moss with a dodgy decision, guaranteed. 

There's been a few calls now.

Nakamba pickpocketing Henderson and getting called for a foul in midfield. 

Obviously the call he didn't see because he was blind to the foul on Coutinho, in what looked like a promising situation for us.

Those are the two I noticed. 

Hopefully he's got better in him to come

Thoroughly enjoying this.

Let's see what the second half brings. 

2 hours ago, maqroll said:

The GOP wants to literally outlaw even discussing in a school setting any aspect of American history that "causes discomfort to any one (White) group of people". 

Not sure if this agenda will delay or quicken a "reckoning", but I'm guessing the latter.

They are trying to turn us into Rhodesia and the backlash is already happening. 

 

You should read some of the laws passed with the Patriot Act in the USA and the anti terrorism laws here down under.

• Quote

  Significant restrictions on the right of any citizen to express certain opinions, including; criticism, or "urging disaffection", of the sovereign, the constitution, the government, the law, or 'different groups'. Exemptions may exist where the target of criticism is agreed to be 'in error'. Exemptions appear to exist where the claim is that a feature of a group of people is in some way offensive to the mainstream of society. Onus of proof is on the defendant, the presumption is not of innocence.

   

12 hours ago, sparrow1988 said:

If you think that it should stay, then I'll carry it on here. The Irish are referred to as "indentured servants", or are said to have been subjected to "indentured/penal servitude" by historians. Obviuosly, this is also abhorrent and shouldn't have happened. This usually invloved a period of time which was to be served before becoming "free". It is mentioned in those articles that in the Carribean this period was typically 5 to 7 years to "cover the cost of the trip across the Atlantic". Timescales of decades are also mentioned.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/04/19/how-myth-irish-slaves-became-favorite-meme-racists-online

The Cromwellian policy of forced transportation to the colonies in the 1650s (which included an estimated 10,000 Irish people) understandably scars our collective memory and it deserves both respect and close attention from anyone interested in the history of the unfree labour systems in the Atlantic world. Prior to the sugar revolution and the massive investment by Europeans in enslaving and dehumanizing African people, the living and working conditions of servants and slaves were similar. As the British colonies transitioned to large-scale sugar plantations both groups were exploited for profit, indentured servants for decades and enslaved Africans for centuries.

There is a subtle but distinct difference between the two types of slavery/servitude. Some Irish even went willingly to the Carribean/modern-day southern USA in an attempt to escape British oppression at home.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/17/us/irish-slaves-myth.html?_r=0

The legal differences between indentured servitude and chattel slavery were profound, according to Matthew Reilly, an archaeologist who studies Barbados. Unlike slaves, servants were considered legally human. Their servitude was based on a contract that limited their service to a finite period of time, usually about seven years, in exchange for passage to the colonies. They did not pass their unfree status on to descendants.

“An indenture implies two people have entered into a contract with each other but slavery is not a contract,” said Leslie Harris, a professor of African-American history at Northwestern University. “It is often about being a prisoner of war or being bought or sold bodily as part of a trade. That is a critical distinction.”

The difference between servitude and slavery is a very important difference, seen as "The Irish/Whites were slaves too" is a sentiment pedelled by Neo-Nazi groups, Holocaust deniers, Fascists and so on. It is used to play down the hereditary slavery experienced over centuries by the African race and their quest for reparations. So much as to say 'The whites were slaves as well, they got over it, why can't you lot'. This 'get over it, we did' attitude is used by the above mentioned groups particularly in the US as proof of the inferiority of blacks and to further their belief of white supremacy.

Obviously, slavery existed long before the colonies in the 'New World', for example in Ancient Rome, even to an extent today with human trafficking. However the Irish were not slaves in the sense of their African counterparts in America and the Carribean, at least not in the sense that it is used by the groups mentioned above. They became free after a certain period of time. Slavery in that part of the world has a very specific legal meaning. What the Irish experienced was more akin to modern-day human trafficking, just then it was carried out by governments. Again I must stress, not a good thing.

I reacted strongly to the Irish were slaves comment and always do because of how it is exploited by certain groups. Futhering the "myth" or sentiment gives creedence to what these groups are saying in order to play down the enforced slavery of the African people and their descendents and I urge you to be careful how you express it for this very reason.

Thank you for this. Sincerely. For the energy and discipline taken here. You offer clarity and insight into your end of the discussion. 

Those qualities is something I lacked in articulating my views and what I intended to say has in its essence been lost in translation, and consequently has elicited your response.

Truly, thank you for the care taken and considered approach to it. I learned where you are coming from.

I'd like to return to the discussion with a view to you being able to see my views in the light you have shared yours with.

I'm not in a position to do that at present.

I have a question for you though.

You say that some Irish willingly went on their way to elude what was on offer if they didn't, or at least you cite that version of events to illustrate a distinction. 

Would you say that the native Americans willingly accepted their small pox infected gifts from the British? How do you think that served them ultimately?

I have many African friends and associations. Largely through basketball but I honestly try to see the best in people, and I'm fortunate and blessed enough to be in a position where I've enjoyed countless conversations with that many African men and women that I can say for certain in my mind, we all bring a wonderfully unique perspective. Regardless of whether or not something is an 'according to Hoyle' definition of events and accounts, we should remember that we are all only able to represent our understanding of what is or has happened, and that if we remain open to the possibility it could be improved, then we are learning a greater truth at each step 

54 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

Oh no, not the Irish were slaves arguments. Have a look through these articles.

https://limerick1914.medium.com/all-of-my-work-on-the-irish-slaves-meme-2015-16-4965e445802a

There were clear and distinct differences between the type of servitude/slavery. I agree the Irish have been discriminated against and have been the victims of oppression throughout history. However the slaves argument doesn’t wash. 

This is also wildly off topic so if you want to continue it, I’m happy to discuss it over DM or in another more relevant topic if one exists. 

If we were on the same wavelength you'd be citing the argument that slavery doesn't really belong to any race and comes in a myriad of forms. Some more apparent than others. Some more acknowledged as legitimate than others. Denying something doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't happening, and oftentimes it actually enables it to continue unchallenged, exacerbating the problems it causes. No matter if we are to pretend it doesn't exist and are removed from suffering the consequences.

It's not all that wildly off topic. We are discussing the atrocities of one people deciding they have the entitlement to inflict war and that which comes along with it, on another people. Albeit this thread is specific to the Russian and Ukrainian situation, the techniques and repercussions are universal. That's my opinion at least.

We can take it to DM if you feel like you want to engage, and that this might derail others discussion. 

On 04/05/2022 at 22:27, sparrow1988 said:

And the worst part was they included Ireland in their propagandda video. I mean what did we ever do?

Worked as slaves on plantations just like the African Americans. The eugenics movement didn't start with Nazi Germany.

Ireland flies under the radar and has to cop it sweet because no one is going to believe the whitest of white on the planet, albinos aside, that they are really victim of some of the most blatant and vile discrimination there is.

It's foreign to most that evil cares not for colour, they can't fathom that white people institutionalise oppression and suppression by design to ensure that other white people remain unable to thrive and prosper. Evil just wants to erode and corrupt by all means at any and every opportunity. 

Unfortunately we are so busy with our heads up our asses being patriotic and  discriminating against other people's situation and actions, that we've overlooked and foregone humanity in doing so. 

I think its worth noting that per 90 minutes Coutinho gives us the equal most goals AND assists throughout the entire squad. Only Watkins is equal in goals per 90 minutes. 

This isn't something we should overlook when considering Coutinho. He was Liverpool's top goal scorer, and also a top creator, in 2016/17 with 13 goals and 7 assists to his name.

For Brazil he has 3 goals in his last six outings.

I don't know if we can really say with any real confidence that without Coutinho we could rely on the individual talent or team cohesion and chemistry to get us the results we did that have enabled us to continue building towards ascending next season.

4 goals and 3 assists in 14 is stand out contribution in any team. Then you add his knack for dribbling, his ability to occupy territory that makes us a threat, his nous for bringing opposition over to him and then crafting space for himself or the team by his touch or releasing passes for others. And the man can shoot it pinpoint to a bullseye, even from range.

I think we underestimate how hard it is to replace him.

I remember when Downing, Ash Young and Darren Bent were England's finest and all in form and firing for Villa. 

We had a number of British players back then too.

Guys said the same about nzonzi.

Ended up playing well at Roma as far as I'm aware. 

3 hours ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

I used to love Witsel but not sure about him nowadays. His type would suit a change to a more possession based style but is he fit enough?

So far it's all just paper talk but it does sound like Villa are planning for a different transfer approach, going for 30-35 year olds. It makes sense in a way because young players will want to play in Europe and improve their careers by being seen, while older players may be happy with a lucrative contract instead of Europe. It could work if those older players have an Ashley Young type of mentality, but could also be risky in case they don't. Doing a light "rebuild" by signing a number of older players in key positions will also make it necessary to rebuild again pretty soon.  

Appreciate the considered approach to the discussion. I think some of what you'd said would be bang on point. Some of it I'm simply not aware enough to comment. 

My view is there plenty of life left in a 33 year old who doesn't have any health concerns. If they've played to a standard before then unless their bodies aren't able to do it anymore they will be able to emulate it again given the right environment, but the latter aspect of it is important as anything else. If the desire is there along with the discipline to maintain over a season, for what's lacking in youth should be made up for with nous, wily, and know how.

44 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Witsel isnt good anymore, would be a flop in England. Dortmund defence is so dreadful and Witsel is one of the few to blame for that

Perhaps our team think they could amend that in the setup we want to create?

I don't follow Dortmund so don't have any opinions or insights on the situation. 

3 minutes ago, HeyAnty said:

33, can’t see it.  Will have to open a nursing home beside villa park at this rate.

One of the better players in his position for a time, I've not paid him any attention for a while mind, but provided he's not had anything causing his body to deteriorate rapidly and dramatically, 33 is fine to hold your own.

Recruitment for the future is fine. Doing so to get where we want to be in the immediate future means we are also competing with the best clubs on the planet, from a playing personnel and scouting perspective. And we aren't in a position to do that at will and on our own terms. I think we were blessed to get a player of Bailey's abilities, and yet so many aren't satisfied there.

The club and its directors understand they need to appease the expectations of fans as by creating the necessary successes. 

Signing the best up and coming talent at every step along the way will only ensure there's considerable periods where we don't recruit. And that is a recipe for risking stagnation or even regression. 

It's there for anyone to see that under SG we need to recruit to improve. 

We were blessed and fortunate to be able to bring him in when we did. Losing Grealish could have been a lot more detrimental to our season if we didn't bring in Coutinho. 

Now we are at a point whereby if we stay up, which we will, then recruitment is going to be a lot kinder to us, and we can possibly sign the talent necessary to take us closer to challenging at the top end of the table.

However I would think it almost naive to decline the opportunity to sign Phil. He's world class on his day, and he's by no means an egotistical trouble maker, quite the opposite. Not only are others going to see his talent on our roster and want to be a part of it, when they get here, Phil is the type of guy who will make it work with them as best he can as opposed to making it difficult.

We are going to need players who possess both the quality of talent and attitude to get us above and beyond being average in this league.

Between us and Newcastle for Witsel's signature. According to the press.

Just prefilled out a booking for flights and accommodation in Brisbane. Will go in store tomorrow and pay once Villa has officially announced the match with Leeds at Suncorp stadium. 

Yessir!

Utv!!

Rough outline for a book cover.

32 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

I disagree that war is comparable with the everyday suffering people experience in peaceful countries.

I am a bit worried about the way we have started to celebrate the deaths of other human beings. I know they’re soldiers, and I know they’re invaders, and guilty of some horrific things, but it’s not healthy to celebrate violent death.

This hatred is going to last generations and cause future conflicts and future deaths. Ultimately nobody wins from war.

I deeply despise Putin, and I’m disgusted by any Russian soldier who has committed war crimes. But one day we have to build some kind of relationship with Russia in the same way we did with Germany, Italy, Japan, etc.

I've not articulated myself well enough to convey what I meant because if I had then you would have to be disagreeing with a different point.

Forgive me thanks to the Wolves game I've had all of an hours sleep. Maybe another time.

Do you know much about the relationship 'we' developed with Nazi Germany post war? I mean outside of the narrative that is offered in history classes and mainstream media?

I want to be clear before leaving this discussion for today that I wholeheartedly agree with the essence of your message, if I am not misconstrued, and that is in order for peace and society to prevail, we must learn to work together. That is as clear as day.

All that I can conclude upon entering this thread is that I must make the most of each day I have here, be kind to strangers, neighbours and loved ones alike.

It's suggested above Putin belongs somewhere dark. We are all here already, I don't care if you're upper class and white, or a child soldier fighting in the Rwandan civil war while the likelihood of your mother being raped while you fight for a lost cause, is probable.

Sorry all for the above. What happens at war, and I'm not just talking about armed conflicts between sovereign states, is harrowing, and what is even oftentimes scarier is how these men at the helm envision the world during times of peace.

Don't get too caught up in our own propaganda either. We need more than terror being broadcast through the airwaves to amend what all of us are eventually going to have to deal with.

11 hours ago, sne said:

If the Lakers manage to miss the play off I wouldn't be surprised if the some how against the odds manage to win the draft lottery.

Too good a story for the NBA to miss out on.

They sort of need it, don't they?

How else are they going to survive when their starting five retires soon enough?

Those Nets sure could use Kyrie back. Sitting in 8th seed last I checked.

Was hoping Chicago would head in to the post season with better momentum but not to be.

Phoenix looking the real deal. Chris Paul may just get that elusive ring.

McGinn and Konsa losing their feet couldn't have happened at a less favourable time. McGinns touch enough to put him in behind the defenders, and then when he slips, he's on the wrong side of those defenders going on an attack of their own. Then Konsa our last line goes down too at equally poor timing.

It killed our momentum and control over the game. Would have been a very different 90 minutes I feel.

Wolves deserved winners, but my word that first goal was unlucky. 

Sanson was a positive. 

See you all for the next one.

2 minutes ago, Herman22 said:

70mins for Sanson. Thoughts? 

I thought he was class to be honest. 

Deft touch, protected it well, played smart passes. Our best player perhaps today.