dn1982

It is well documented that Lambert has both hands tied behind his back as regards transfers/ wages. However, it is how much weight you give to the money equals success/ lack of it equals failure argument. To me, money equals success 9 times out of 10. No money results in failure 9.5 times out of ten!

Last night's starting eleven cost approximately £25m? Of which nearly half is N'Zogbia (a player Lambert didn't buy and has been an underachiever in Claret and Blue at best). Of our standard first eleven, only Delph (leaving) and Benteke cost more than £5m. We are a small team. If our transfers are that small, I'm sure the wages roughly tally.

 

It's said our squad cost is approximately £81m. Take away Bent, N'Zogbia and soon to be Delph and it costs about £41m. In the last two seasons Lambert has bought 11 players that have been (at least intended) to feature in our team regularly. The average cost of those 11 players is £2.2m. Unfortunately in this league you will not make progress spending £2.2m on a player (and the likely low wages that go with it). I don't think you can argue he could have bought just three players of greater quality if you look at our injury list!

 

In fact last summer/ transfer window (info taken from Transferleague.co.uk):

 

Aston Villa spent £6.7mNewly Promoted:

Leicester spent £11m

Burnley spent £6.5m

QPR spent £35.5mTeams we fought relegation with last season:

Hull spent £37m

Crystal Palace spent £10.9m

Sunderland spent £14m

West Brom spent £15.1m

West Ham £27m

Swansea £15m

Why, oh why aren't we progressing?! It really isn't rocket science. What can Lambert REALLY do that is going to make a significant impact?

 

Lambert has spent over 4m on only four occasions since he has been here: Benteke (£10m), Kozak (£5m), Okore (£4m) and Sanchez (£4m) - none of them have been a disaster yet. Benteke alone will probably at least double his value, Kozak and Okore have had awful injuries and Sanchez is not yet settled (although he was bloody awful last night!)

Lambert has taken gambles of under £4m on a host of players with mixed success, Vlaar stand out bright point (£3.2m) but I don't see how anyone can get a Premier League club even comfortably surviving on these sorts of finances?

 

Lambert has made mistakes but NO manager will get us comfortable with these financial constraints - it will be a battle against relegation every year. Lambert is not the real problem, see past it.

It's the progress on the pitch regards to the style of play rather than the positional placing which is the biggest concern. Our football is awful. We haven't a clue how to attack teams or dictate play. Teams with worse squads play better stuff. We are not going to challenge for anything so at least try to entertain when we are struggling. Look at West Ham they were awful last season but a change in philosophy and they're doing better with virtually the same players.

Or when they are served up with garbage week after week and season after season they realise that the price of football is not worth it and that there are many other things to spend money on that does not result in an awful feeling on a regular basis.

 

As for fans ******* off when the going gets tough, it doesn't get much tougher for Villa fans than playing in division 3 but even then the football was worth watching.

 

Just to clarify, my comment was about all fans - not just us Villa ones.

 

Something should really be done about the cost of football, though.  I'd love Villa to pioneer something in this country but just can't see it happening

I think a lot of fans have had enough. Going to VP is a chore not a pleasure as it should be. We are looking at a 25k crowd tonight and that is solely to do with the crap we are watching and the apathy is growing. Cost is a factor but only a small one most would willing pay more to be entertained. Weak leadership from Lerner is letting the club drift. This is the longest period of decline I can remember it may not be the worst as we haven't been relegated but that'll happen eventually if it's not addressed. No one can convince me now that no one could do a better job than Lambert on the same resources.

Is this just for transfers in?? As I think departures maybe the biggest concern in January

All I've left to say on the subject of the manager is that I realise his shortcomings and have been extremely frustrated with alot of things he has done in his time with us. He was by no means the finished article when he took us over and I'm sure he has lerned alot through his time here but maybe hasn't learned enough and maybe never will to be able to get this team finishing higher up the table than 15th but I also realise that many other managers would of had us down by now under the restrictions set in place by Lerner, I'd be fairly sure that OGS would of relegated us in his first season just as an example. I'm prepared to wait til January to see if he can sort it out as a last chance from my point of view. I don't see any good way out of our current situation with Lerner in charge and it's all smoke and mirrors with him and very little genuine ambition which in turn affects the team and restricts any manager who takes the job.

Do you give Lambert the next transfer window? I want gone ASAP so a new bloke can be settled by then. Under Lambert I think we'll scrape survival but that's not good enough. I'd rather we got some one in who united the fans and club again. The feel good factor is non existent. I'm dreading going the game Monday and that can't be right! The dwindling crowds and crap atmosphere shows the apathy that's running through the club. If we lose the next 2 Lambert has his ready made excuses but what excuses the last 2 seasons crap football.

The only reason he signed for us was to get game time. If he didn't im sure he could've signed for Chelsea or some one so if we are not careful he will be off. He looked very promising but if he isn't progressing here why stay? Not playing him won't only hurt his career but any up coming player won't want the same treatment. He's fully fit and he can't be any worse than Clark or Baker play him!!

So because he sat down in a game youve gone off him?

Conveniently missing my explanation of why off. It shows his attitude. There is a list of reasons and that for me was the final straw. Lamberts record deserves sacking. The fact we haven't progressed the dross we get to watch the copitualtion to lower league teams etc but you can put that down to the tools at his disposal but him not seemingly being bothered about a home cup tie is inexcusable. It's not coincidence we are easy fodder for lower league teams. I know you seem to point to him having his hands tied financially but surely after 3 years we should have a pattern of play? We have Southampton at home on Monday we probably won't get 35% of the ball i just hope we have a few shots!!

Sorry if people think using the issue of money is a poor excuse.  Trouble is that is what the game is about these days ,  those with it and those without it.  Those with it can buy the better players and be more successful.  Those without it cant

Money buys you success but a good coach will get you good football! The players are better than their performances.

Lambert lost my support when Orient beat us. He's attitude in that game I believe transmitted to the players. He was sat down virtually the whole game with out his usual Jack in the box intensity. That to me showed he didn't really care if we progressed or not and when its the probably the only chance we have at any success that is seriously wrong.

A lot of people go on about this mythical AM but it doesn't matter where your creativity comes from so long as you get it. For me Lambert is more bothered about defending than anything else. He picks wide players who even though they are strikers are picked because they are better at defending than others. Grealish will create more than Gabby but may cost at the other end. Cissokho is getting forward less and less. Who's fault is that? If We play defensive against Sothampton hoping to knick one I think the crowd will turn and Lerner will have to do some thing but I think Lambert will get a sneaky draw and we'll go again which is just prolonging the pain and delaying the inevitable.

Comparing managers is never going to work as all have worked under different circumstances. All I do know regardless of who has had the rougher deal I feel now about Lambert as I did with McLeish and that its a chore to go and watch the Villa. I have always thought whoever we played we could beat them home or away now that's normally blind optimism but that's what being a fan entails most of the time. Now I'm hoping for a decent performance more than a decent result and I'm not optimistic we can do it regardless of who we are playing. We seem to have 2 tactics attack with Benteke and defend without him. Our best players Vlaar and Delph look like they're off and who can blame them. Theyre either looking for a last pay day or want to win things neither of which look likely here. If the football showed any sort of progress I think most would back Lambert but there isn't I want to enjoy going to VP again and soon and the quickest way for that to happen is to get a manager who inspires the fans and the players. Our players are better than their performances who's fault is that??

Yesterday showed that we have the players to be a decent side. Spurs even though not playing well have some very good players. They are on paper a better team yet we deserved to beat them a weak referee and a silly reaction from Benteke. If we had showed that level of attacking intent in all the other defeats most people would have be happy and I'd say we'd have had at least one better result. It all shows that Lambert is a problem because we haven't gone out to play like that in other games. It seems he knows his on the ropes and is trying to have a final flurry to see if he can still win but for me it's too late. Too many lower league defeats. Too many games were we just don't try to win. If Benteke doesn't play his team is devoid of ideas. Yesterday was too little too late but I. Can't see him going because the manner of the defeat was better! So we go again.

So yet again a player who has hardly played gets written off!! IMO he was our best player against QPR he has shown at the WC he has quality. He's still finding his feet but has showed glimpses of quality. He got caught out of position a couple of times but he did ok. I for one won't judge him fully until he's played a number of times.

Our defensive tactics seem fine most of the time. Our biggest problem is how we attack. There's no idea. We don't change against any opposition. We have no pattern of play. Lambert seems to pick his attackers based on their defensive attributes.

Worry if he's starting Sunday. He's not a good defender.

It's goals we need and he does offer more going forward. Lets just have a crack at them.

After seeing Evertons resuits I think it shows if we had an enthused Lerner with a proactive CEO (hopefully this is Fox but time will tell) we can easily increase revenue and build a competitive squad on a reasonable budget. Lambert needs to show a lot more on the playing side to be the one who completes the rebuild and I don't think he has it in him.

This is not childish or reactionary despite the hurt of losing to a poor QPR side.

 

Love that line, it's completely reactionary. Like a poll after the Liverpool win would be the complete reverse.

Well it's not just the loss to QPR is it?

 

It's 2 seasons of mostly horrid football & results AND the loss to QPR

 

I'm sorry but the goal for the past 2 seasons has been keep the club in the league and get the clubs finances under control.

 

This has been achieved. Now we have invested in the squad properly this summer we can judge Lambert on this season. Not 9 games with over half of them against the top 5. The actual full season. 

 

For a fair opinion after we've played all 19 teams at the end of the year.

Ok let's give Lambert the full season what will he have to achieve this year for him to be seen as a success? What is his benchmark? What position will we have to be in for you to think he's not good enough? I would love Lambert to turn it around and for us to play good football but I've seen nothing to suggest he can and even with better players this year has resorted to the same crap tactics.

I wonder what Lerners target for this season is? Most will say to stay up which is a given but after him saying he wants to enjoy Villa again what will make him happy? A sale doesn't look any where on the horizon so if Lerner wants to enjoy it he must surely place a higher standard than just staying up. Most fans have had enough and if this form continues that figure will only increase so at what point do you think Lerner and Fox will have to act? Sub 25000 crowds? Bottom 3 at Xmas? 3 more goalless defeats? A drubbing on Sunday?

I'd say other clubs are seen as cheaper options not better. If you have to significantly lower your price for a buyer for me that buyer hasn't got enough funds to get us where we want to go. When you see clubs like Spurs touted around for a supposed billion!! We are more than worth £150m. If we was to lower the price we probably would get loads of interest but I'd say most would be looking to make a quick return and we'd be back in limbo again before we know it.

If Lambert really wanted one, we'd have one. There's, cumulatively, been enough money there, and he's opted to use it elsewhere

 

We've got one: Joe Cole. The money spent elsewhere has gone on Cissokho and Sanchez (who fills the position of DM, which most of VT wanted more than an AM). Someone is going to say something about the LB position now. Really unforgiveable that the manager had signed two LB's for the monumental combined sum of nearly four and a half million pounds, and NEITHER of them was any good. Let us now focus on this instance of complete incompetence and not worry about whether a clear majority of Lambert's other signings were any good for the price paid.

none of that changes what I'm saying, which is the manager thought that a number 10 was instrumental to his vision, we'd already have one at the club

 

Apparently he persued Kiyotake and Hoolahan (possibly others!) but, for whatever reason, couldn't get them.  Does that mean he's abandoned all hope?  Or would you rather we bought just "any old" number 10 than one the manager feels will fit the mould? (i.e: Joe Cole)

All this talk about a No10 seems to miss the fact we didn't play a system to accommodate one. And now we have Cole he prefers to play Gabby off the striker instead! Does anybody know what formation we played against QPR when Cole and Bent came on??

The squad is vastly improved, for much less money (good performance there from Lambert), but he's assembled a group of better players that he's got playing worse than the ones that were in before them.

 

Yes, he's done a great job getting cost down, BUT that doesn't excuse the fact that he's built a squad that's better than the one he inherited, but he still cannot get the best out of them. Maybe he'd be better as a scout or in a developmental role, because although he seems to be alright at spotting players for good prices it's becoming increasingly apparent he doesn't have the foggiest notion how to use them once they're signed

 

FWIW, this is an excellent post and one which I (an apparent "Lambert supporter") completely agree with.  The test was always this season.  I've been saying for ages that, for me, he's got until this Christmas.  He's had financial restrictions etc. etc. but this is now a squad that has been developed over 2 seasons - the crap (for the most part) has been rid of.

 

We should be seeing at least some improvement, but we're currently not.  I'm actually not fussed about losing 5 games in a row given the teams we've played, but the manner of the defeats have been poor.  Similarly, in beating Stoke, we didn't play that well - just shut them out.  Hull and Liverpool were good performances and the ball retention against Q.P.R. was good too.  Outside of that, not much cheer.  Lambert has been unlucky with injures, of course.  We're a side that is 8070571335 reliant on Benteke and, whilst this is partly down to transfers etc., I don't particularly blame Lambert for that.  However, the team should still be performing, with the ball, better than it has been.

 

I don't want Lambert sacked right now and I'd like him to succeed at the club as he seems to be a pretty humble guy with the interests of the club at heart (which seems quite rare these days).  Time is running out though.  There simply has to be an improvement this season and it needs to start now.

 

 

 

Edit:  Although you do say "vastly improved", which is a bit of a stretch I think

This is exactly my thoughts but I'm just a bit further down the road on him needing to be sacked. I'd like nothing more than for us to go on an unbeaten run and with growing confidence start to play some good football but I've seen nothing to suggest that's remotely possible. If we don't improve in the next 2 months I fear we could be in severe trouble that's why I think we need to act sooner rather than later.

What's the excuse for the awful football? You can still try to play decent football whilst staying up. Most fans understand the financial constraints but the football hasn't changed one bit since PL got here. If anyone can give me a good reason why our football is so bad to watch and that it'll improve I would support Lambert as I think having stability and letting a manager build a club is the way forward. The only problem is I've seen nothing to suggest we are building anything or any form of progression.

 

Wigan, Burnley, Bolton, Fulham & Leicester are saying hi

And there's countless clubs who ahve been relegated through bad management and playing awful football. Do you have to play crap football to survive? No one thing that definitely get you relegated is constantly being down the bottom. Eventually you don't go on a run or you get a spot of bad luck at the wrong time and you're gone. We havent progressed at all under Lambert and he's making the same decisions and expecting different results. I think that's actually the definition of madness!! He actually believes we have goals in the team. Then goes on to name players that don't score! I think a better manager would get us higher up playing better football than Lambert has with this same squad.

Jack drawing so many fouls was instrumental in us holding that lead against stoke imo

And also relieving pressure against Hull. With the way he plays I think him and Benteke would link well as both very intelligent footballers.

What's the excuse for the awful football? You can still try to play decent football whilst staying up. Most fans understand the financial constraints but the football hasn't changed one bit since PL got here. If anyone can give me a good reason why our football is so bad to watch and that it'll improve I would support Lambert as I think having stability and letting a manager build a club is the way forward. The only problem is I've seen nothing to suggest we are building anything or any form of progression.

But it's a fact that the top half teams have more possession over the course of a season so it clearly has an effect long term.

 

Is that a fact? Swansea were equal 2nd (56%) for possession last season and finished with 42 points (12th).

 

Atletico averaged 49% possesion (10th) and finished with 90 points (1st).

 

Better teams tend to have more possession but they also tend to have more expensive players and we're not a better team.

 

I'm not saying that possession is entirely irrelevant but, depending on your style of play, more possession won't necessarily mean more points.

Who would you rather watch Swansea or us? The biggest reason for me Lambert Has to go is the football is awful. Watching Villa is not fun. Last season was a chore and this season looks like it's going to go the same way. If we can't challenge at least play entertaining stuff. People use the budget as a reason to keep him but that doesn't excuse crap football. There are plenty of teams with worse squads that play better stuff. Who's fault is that?

It's hard to pick a replacement as when he gets replaced is a massive thing. If it in the next month I'd want Moyes id only have Pullis if we were in the deep stuff! I wouldn't go abroad in mid season as I think having Premier League Experience and being able to hit the ground running are a massive thing. So on that basis it'd rule out Eddie Howe. For me it's Moyes now Pullis in Feb or if we havent improved under Lambert by the summer which I doubt I'd get Eddie Howe.

I had thought we'd be on damage limitation this season until Benteke was back fully fit. He is our goal scorer and the points per game average is very much higher with him in the team than him out of the team. 

 

So with that in mind

 

Liverpool (A)

Arsenal (H)

City (H)

Chelsea (A)

Everton (A)

 

3 points from those 5 games is not bad at all. 2 draws and 3 defeats wouldn't have been bad either.

 

So

 

Stoke (A)

Newcastle (H)

Hull (H)

QPR (A)

 

To get 7 points from those is also a good return. 

 

Take into account we've played last seasons top 5 in our first 9 games without our star player and we're still on course to get 42 points this season. 

 

It must be hard for the team to have such a tough run of games and try to come out of it with confidence intact, especially as we've not had the opportunity to play our best back 4 in any of those games. 

 

Give the team a chance to get Benteke up to speed, for our best back 4 out on the pitch week in week out before we start getting so pessimistic. 

That's all well and good if you take this season in isolation but its not. It's been going on for 2 years. If we don't get 4 pts in the next 3 what happens then? We give him another 3? If I could see any slither of us progressing I'd still be fully behind Lambert but there's nothing. The football is awful. He's picking people in wrong postions he's showing loyalty to players who don't repay him.

 

4 points from the next 3 tricky games would be a great result for us. Lets give them the chance to turn things around